Lexus Relax (10 year/100,000 mile warranty)

[Linas.P]

Interestingly I received call from Lexus regarding service as my old car is now do for it, but they have not updated detail (to be fair I have not told them to update). It seems they are calling everyone who is due service and who would benefit from Relax it.

Now interestingly, I kept chatting with the lady about Relax and she claimed it is exactly like manufacturers new warranty. I said "but it is not as good as previous Extended warranty" , but she insisted that everything is covered as before.

So what is happening - Lexus advertising the Relax Warranty as like for like replacement and customers will be none the wiser unless they compare T&Cs... I would imagine 3 years later it will be very difficult to find old T&Cs or to do anything about it. This is little bit dirty as I am sure majority of customers will not notice that it is reduced service and Lexus seems is not willing to be transparent when offering it. 

[royoftherovers]

8 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Interestingly I received call from Lexus regarding service as my old car is now do for it, but they have not updated detail (to be fair I have not told them to update). It seems they are calling everyone who is due service and who would benefit from Relax it.

Now interestingly, I kept chatting with the lady about Relax and she claimed it is exactly like manufacturers new warranty. I said "but it is not as good as previous Extended warranty" , but she insisted that everything is covered as before.

So what is happening - Lexus advertising the Relax Warranty as like for like replacement and customers will be none the wiser unless they compare T&Cs... I would imagine 3 years later it will be very difficult to find old T&Cs or to do anything about it. This is little bit dirty as I am sure majority of customers will not notice that it is reduced service and Lexus seems is not willing to be transparent when offering it. 

Read my other post Linas.

The Lady knows not what she is talking about.

[Casa1862]

Edit as question answered in this thread

 

[08ISF]

I think Lexus are about to shoot themselves in the foot with this warranty. Lexus' main USP is their customer service and they are regularly top of customer satisfaction surveys, mainly due to the reliability of their products and the brilliant warranty ( that they used to offer!). The new warranty is clearly not as comprehensive as the old one despite the advertising hype and I wonder how it is actually going to be financed. An extended warranty is an insurance policy usually financed by premiums. The warranty provider collects all the money from us , puts it in the pot and then gambles that the amount they will have to pay out overall is less than the contents of the pot. Where are the premiums and the pot coming from with this warranty? We currently give Lexus a grand or so for two years cover including recovery, so the money going to the warranty pot is  say £350-400 per year per customer. Unless Lexus are going to dramatically increase service prices to include the warranty  "premium" there is going to be no money in the pot. See where this is leading? No money in the pot and warranty T's & C's with lots of escape clauses. I can foresee a lot of difficulty getting claims allowed and a year or so down the line Lexus dealers not being very popular, with Lexus knocked off the top spot for customer satisfaction.

[royoftherovers]

You speak for a good number of owners Graham.

[Phil xxkr]

14 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

You speak for a good number of owners Graham.

So you chaps are saying Lexus have committed a huge strategic error? But have they? Toyota have outsourced warranty administration worldwide to a US conglomerate this typically will have reduced internal costs dramatically so partly funding the new proposition. Firms like Kia already support a long-term warranty and have obviously tested the cost/benefit ratio. It also means a longer hands-on with an owner beyond the initial 3 years so decreasing the chances of them changing brand. Perhaps the biggest benefits will accrue to the dealer not only through increasing service revenues but more crucially to lessen the impact of less servicing needed on all-EV cars in the very near future. All cars breakdown eventually and it appears the general thrust of most complaints is, my car is over 10 years old what am I to do now? 😔. Well with all desirable vehicles someone somewhere will fill the void if indeed it will be shown to be a market opportunity. 

[wharfhouse]

1 minute ago, Phil xxkr said:

So you chaps are saying Lexus have committed a huge strategic error? But have they? Toyota have outsourced warranty administration worldwide to a US conglomerate this typically will have reduced internal costs dramatically so partly funding the new proposition. Firms like Kia already support a long-term warranty and have obviously tested the cost/benefit ratio. It also means a longer hands-on with an owner beyond the initial 3 years so decreasing the chances of them changing brand. Perhaps the biggest benefits will accrue to the dealer not only through increasing service revenues but more crucially to lessen the impact of less servicing needed on all-EV cars in the very near future. All cars breakdown eventually and it appears the general thrust of most complaints is, my car is over 10 years old what am I to do now? 😔. Well with all desirable vehicles someone somewhere will fill the void if indeed it will be shown to be a market opportunity. 

I can see pros and cons for cars <10 years and 100k miles old with the new Relax. My biggest disappointment is that when purchasing my current car I could see that I could keep a good warranty in place through to 140k miles - I purchased the car at 2 years old (in 2016) with 40k miles on it with this in mind knowing that I do some 15k miles per annum and so could plan on changing the car as it approached 10 years old and maintain it in warranty throughout. I appreciate that Lexus can change anything they want, but it's a real kick in the teeth to a) not be able to purchase the Extended Warranty (when my current one expires in November) now my car has just rolled over 100k miles and b) to have to pay full price servicing (had moved to Essential Care) when I don't even benefit from the Relax warranty any longer. Still not sure what to make of all of this and how I feel about Lexus now - I love the car and in fact would have been looking to change it for another IS but even that thought has been taken away from me now as no more IS in Europe...

[PRT68]

Water under the bridge now, but when I bought my ISF 3 years ago, it would have been 10 years old this month. Just out of time to renew the warranty for another 2 years. 

Alas, I've sold it, but if I hadn't, I would be furious. This will seriously impact the value of 9-10 year old cars now. 

I still have the last year of my 2 for 1 warranty remaining on my RC300h, which I will continue with. 

It was then my intention to downsize to the replacement CT, but being as that isn't coming, and I don't want an SUV, I'll be leaving the brand. Lexus/Toyota has reduced itself to the others, so I'll be looking at KIA etc. with the 7 year warranty. 

[Phil xxkr]

7 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

I can see pros and cons for cars <10 years and 100k miles old with the new Relax. My biggest disappointment is that when purchasing my current car I could see that I could keep a good warranty in place through to 140k miles - I purchased the car at 2 years old (in 2016) with 40k miles on it with this in mind knowing that I do some 15k miles per annum and so could plan on changing the car as it approached 10 years old and maintain it in warranty throughout. I appreciate that Lexus can change anything they want, but it's a real kick in the teeth to a) not be able to purchase the Extended Warranty (when my current one expires in November) now my car has just rolled over 100k miles and b) to have to pay full price servicing (had moved to Essential Care) when I don't even benefit from the Relax warranty any longer. Still not sure what to make of all of this and how I feel about Lexus now - I love the car and in fact would have been looking to change it for another IS but even that thought has been taken away from me now as no more IS in Europe...

Very valid points Phil, I managed to get a service plan with significant discount with my LOC gold card. This bought it in reach of Essential pricing. At the point of which my plan runs out I shall compare main dealer price point to independent. 

[wharfhouse]

1 minute ago, Phil xxkr said:

Very valid points Phil, I managed to get a service plan with significant discount with my LOC gold card. This bought it in reach of Essential pricing. At the point of which my plan runs out I shall compare main dealer price point to independent. 

Thanks - good thought on the LOC gold card but from what I have gathered from other posts Lexus Reading (who I use) don't offer any discount for LOC. I don't have any complaints with Lexus Reading and have been happy with the way they have looked after me (and they are close to where I live) so I am reluctant to change to another Lexus dealer. Part of my rationale with the Lexus purchase was to maintain servicing in the dealership along with the Extended Warranty until I came to change cars. Also my wife's 2 year old Toyota is looked after by Toyota next door (all part of Jemca). Didn't think I'd have to rethink everything... I have one minor Essential Care service left on my service plan and the Extended Warranty lasts until November. My wife has one service left on her current service plan and 3 years more with the manufacturers (that was 5 years fortunately) warranty. May just need to put it out of my mind for a few months and see if anything transpires and reconsider what I do nearer November.

[Phil xxkr]

15 minutes ago, PRT68 said:

Water under the bridge now, but when I bought my ISF 3 years ago, it would have been 10 years old this month. Just out of time to renew the warranty for another 2 years. 

Alas, I've sold it, but if I hadn't, I would be furious. This will seriously impact the value of 9-10 year old cars now. 

I still have the last year of my 2 for 1 warranty remaining on my RC300h, which I will continue with. 

It was then my intention to downsize to the replacement CT, but being as that isn't coming, and I don't want an SUV, I'll be leaving the brand. Lexus/Toyota has reduced itself to the others, so I'll be looking at KIA etc. with the 7 year warranty. 

I agree prices will be significantly impacted on cars over 3 years old, but up not down. And for cars over 10 years old who wouldn't prefer a car with a such a service /warranty history? And for people considering changing cars, why not I say? It's not a life changing decision or a divorce it's just a car 😎

[Phil xxkr]

1 minute ago, wharfhouse said:

Thanks - good thought on the LOC gold card but from what I have gathered from other posts Lexus Reading (who I use) don't offer any discount for LOC. I don't have any complaints with Lexus Reading and have been happy with the way they have looked after me (and they are close to where I live) so I am reluctant to change to another Lexus dealer. Part of my rationale with the Lexus purchase was to maintain servicing in the dealership along with the Extended Warranty until I came to change cars. Also my wife's 2 year old Toyota is looked after by Toyota next door (all part of Jemca). Didn't think I'd have to rethink everything... I have one minor Essential Care service left on my service plan and the Extended Warranty lasts until November. My wife has one service left on her current service plan and 3 years more with the manufacturers (that was 5 years fortunately) warranty. May just need to put it out of my mind for a few months and see if anything transpires and reconsider what I do nearer November.

Absolutely, revenge is a dish best eaten cold. 😅 And if Reading won't budge others will, bear in mind it's typically once a year so no major trauma . 

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, 08ISF said:

I think Lexus are about to shoot themselves in the foot with this warranty. Lexus' main USP is their customer service and they are regularly top of customer satisfaction surveys, mainly due to the reliability of their products and the brilliant warranty ( that they used to offer!). 

I think the perception for most owners/buyers will be that new offer is even better. Yes - we after reading T&Cs know that it is not a good, but average Joe Shmoe is none the wiser. The way Lexus advertises this new warranty sounds like industry leading plan which is "free" with service. So public perception about Lexus only going to improve because of this, because on the face of it amazing.

36 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

So you chaps are saying Lexus have committed a huge strategic error? But have they? 

I think this was absolutely brilliant idea from business perspective... they made the warranty worse, but made it sound like significantly better! Customers who buys new or nearly new cars from them will benefit, customers who are unprofitable anyway will cost them less to support. 

As I said before - I would be mad at them, but I can't be just because I see how much business sense it makes. It was genius move!

 

[royoftherovers]

5 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

I can see pros and cons for cars <10 years and 100k miles old with the new Relax. My biggest disappointment is that when purchasing my current car I could see that I could keep a good warranty in place through to 140k miles - I purchased the car at 2 years old (in 2016) with 40k miles on it with this in mind knowing that I do some 15k miles per annum and so could plan on changing the car as it approached 10 years old and maintain it in warranty throughout. I appreciate that Lexus can change anything they want, but it's a real kick in the teeth to a) not be able to purchase the Extended Warranty (when my current one expires in November) now my car has just rolled over 100k miles and b) to have to pay full price servicing (had moved to Essential Care) when I don't even benefit from the Relax warranty any longer. Still not sure what to make of all of this and how I feel about Lexus now - I love the car and in fact would have been looking to change it for another IS but even that thought has been taken away from me now as no more IS in Europe...

I sympathise with you Phil.

If the future successful claim rate under the new Relax Warranty is 80% or more, then I think that L.O.C. Members will consider the larger hourly labour rate to have been a good investment.

In the immediate term though Members who bought new will retain their initial 5 year Manufacturers Warranty and the new arrangement will not kick in until year 6. So it is for years 6-10 inclusive that the new arrangements will impact.

For people buying new, years 4-10 will be subject to the new Relax arrangements because the Manufacturers Initial Warranty has been reduced from 5 to 3 years.

It will be interesting to see how Lexus fares in future Customer Satisfaction Surveys and how future sales figures reflect what is happening.

[Linas.P]

30 minutes ago, PRT68 said:

This will seriously impact the value of 9-10 year old cars now. 

I guess it is early days, but IS-F price is "through the roof" and I would even argue they are over priced. 

8 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

I agree prices will be significantly impacted on cars over 3 years old, but up not down. And for cars over 10 years old who wouldn't prefer a car with a such a service /warranty history?

Absolutely agree, for first 10 years the only thing it will do - it will increase used Lexus value and even after 10 years car with FLSH will be more valuable compared to the car with "opportunity" to extend the warranty for thousands just to get the car warranted for 2 more years at the cost which is half the price of the car for most models. 

[Shahpor]

1 hour ago, Phil xxkr said:

So you chaps are saying Lexus have committed a huge strategic error? But have they? Toyota have outsourced warranty administration worldwide to a US conglomerate this typically will have reduced internal costs dramatically so partly funding the new proposition. Firms like Kia already support a long-term warranty and have obviously tested the cost/benefit ratio. It also means a longer hands-on with an owner beyond the initial 3 years so decreasing the chances of them changing brand. Perhaps the biggest benefits will accrue to the dealer not only through increasing service revenues but more crucially to lessen the impact of less servicing needed on all-EV cars in the very near future. All cars breakdown eventually and it appears the general thrust of most complaints is, my car is over 10 years old what am I to do now? 😔. Well with all desirable vehicles someone somewhere will fill the void if indeed it will be shown to be a market opportunity. 

Whilst this is true there are a few caveats.

First, yes, there are people like me who intended to purchase another extended warranty but now my car won't be eligible for any warranty since it is going over 100k miles soon.  Even the service agent at the dealer I was at a few days ago said it was a shame that I would most likely be moving on from the current car before too long.

Since the extended warranty had the same 10 year limit, it is the reduction of 40k miles that is telling.  If I keep the car I am assuming the probability of problems occurring increases significantly since it is likely that the reduction in offered mileage cover is no doubt motivated by cost.  I know all cars have more problems as they age, but it this specific reduction that is telling.

Secondly, the new warranty is an inferior product.  So, one of the options I was considering was upgrading mine to a new GS450h.  However, not only do I now have to pay full service pricing for the duration of my ownership, but I don't get a choice of the warranty cover I can get.  I know that the new warranty doesn't technically cost anything, but I would have happily paid a few hundred pounds a year extra to increase my coverage (like BMW provide, for instance).  This is especially noticeable as some of the items I have just had replaced under warranty wouldn't be covered going forward.

Finally, the wording of the new cover - along with the fact that it is 'free' - suggests to me an attempt to provide more wiggle room to disallow claims in the future.  This could be complete nonsense on my part, but the change in the warranty administration company could very well be an influence as well. 

And if you have made it this far into the gushing of words that I have written, well done and my apologies 🙂

[royoftherovers]

12 minutes ago, Shahpor said:

Whilst this is true there are a few caveats.

First, yes, there are people like me who intended to purchase another extended warranty but now my car won't be eligible for any warranty since it is going over 100k miles soon.  Even the service agent at the dealer I was at a few days ago said it was a shame that I would most likely be moving on from the current car before too long.

Since the extended warranty had the same 10 year limit, it is the reduction of 40k miles that is telling.  If I keep the car I am assuming the probability of problems occurring increases significantly since it is likely that the reduction in offered mileage cover is no doubt motivated by cost.  I know all cars have more problems as they age, but it this specific reduction that is telling.

Secondly, the new warranty is an inferior product.  So, one of the options I was considering was upgrading mine to a new GS450h.  However, not only do I now have to pay full service pricing for the duration of my ownership, but I don't get a choice of the warranty cover I can get.  I know that the new warranty doesn't technically cost anything, but I would have happily paid a few hundred pounds a year extra to increase my coverage (like BMW provide, for instance).  This is especially noticeable as some of the items I have just had replaced under warranty wouldn't be covered going forward.

Finally, the wording of the new cover - along with the fact that it is 'free' - suggests to me an attempt to provide more wiggle room to disallow claims in the future.  This could be complete nonsense on my part, but the change in the warranty administration company could very well be an influence as well. 

And if you have made it this far into the gushing of words that I have written, well done and my apologies 🙂

You are spot on Shahpor.  Phil is taking a more Global view, which is also correct when viewed from the different perspective.

As I have said/implied several times now, the success or failure of the new system is proportional to the number of successful claims under the new warranty. In the short term LOC Members will be dissatisfied and possibly move on to other manufacturers, but in the medium term there is the opportunity to view how the new arrangements are bedding down. Some members will leave straight away, others will watch and see how it goes, others will remain with the Brand and new Customers may be enticed by something which is unrivalled in the current marketplace.

I wonder how many people remember the now discontinued Vauxhall Lifetime Warranty which was so full of holes that one esteemed motoring journalist described it as "so full of holes you could drive a Vauxhall Wyvern through it!"

[Phil xxkr]

21 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

You are spot on Shahpor.  Phil is taking a more Global view, which is also correct when viewed from the different perspective.

As I have said/implied several times now, the success or failure of the new system is proportional to the number of successful claims under the new warranty. In the short term LOC Members will be dissatisfied and possibly move on to other manufacturers, but in the medium term there is the opportunity to view how the new arrangements are bedding down. Some members will leave straight away, others will watch and see how it goes, others will remain with the Brand and new Customers may be enticed by something which is unrivalled in the current marketplace.

I wonder how many people remember the now discontinued Vauxhall Lifetime Warranty which was so full of holes that one esteemed motoring journalist described it as "so full of holes you could drive a Vauxhall Wyvern through it!"

Succinctly argued as usual John 😊

[Phil xxkr]

52 minutes ago, Shahpor said:

Whilst this is true there are a few caveats.

First, yes, there are people like me who intended to purchase another extended warranty but now my car won't be eligible for any warranty since it is going over 100k miles soon.  Even the service agent at the dealer I was at a few days ago said it was a shame that I would most likely be moving on from the current car before too long.

Since the extended warranty had the same 10 year limit, it is the reduction of 40k miles that is telling.  If I keep the car I am assuming the probability of problems occurring increases significantly since it is likely that the reduction in offered mileage cover is no doubt motivated by cost.  I know all cars have more problems as they age, but it this specific reduction that is telling.

Secondly, the new warranty is an inferior product.  So, one of the options I was considering was upgrading mine to a new GS450h.  However, not only do I now have to pay full service pricing for the duration of my ownership, but I don't get a choice of the warranty cover I can get.  I know that the new warranty doesn't technically cost anything, but I would have happily paid a few hundred pounds a year extra to increase my coverage (like BMW provide, for instance).  This is especially noticeable as some of the items I have just had replaced under warranty wouldn't be covered going forward.

Finally, the wording of the new cover - along with the fact that it is 'free' - suggests to me an attempt to provide more wiggle room to disallow claims in the future.  This could be complete nonsense on my part, but the change in the warranty administration company could very well be an influence as well. 

And if you have made it this far into the gushing of words that I have written, well done and my apologies 🙂

Read it to the last smile 👍I can appreciate your pain but you have identified a fabulous opportunity for the equivalent to a GAP insurance policy . This would cover the "gap" between Relax and the previous warranty so shouldn't cost too much. Let's hope some one is listening maybe even Lexus! 

The other point is Relax isn't "free" it is conditional and I hate to say this but if the Advertising Standards Authority were on the ball they might just question this and other statements regarding the warranty. 

[wharfhouse]

I was looking through some of the Lexus franchises websites and there seems to be various flavours of Essential Servicing still available that don't seem to strictly follow what used to be on the Lexus website. Lexus Reading link directly to the UK Lexus website (as do some other franchises) and so show no offering beyond full price servicing but I do wonder if for cars that are beyond the Relax criteria (like mine) whether franchises will start and offer their own value pricing (so for servicing with no Relax warranty but with hybrid health check) to retain a customer within their franchise?

[Bounce75]

Now as one of the new Lexus owners I think the Relax plan is very good. 

I normally buy Pre reg cars & keep them for about 5 years, I have never had an extended warranty on any car I have owned, but I have also been very lucky & never had a problem with any of them. 
 

I have always used main dealers to service the car for the whole length of my ownership, so for someone like me I get an extra couple of years cover for nothing more than what I would have paid anyway. 
 

So for me it’s a win win. 

[08ISF]

2 hours ago, Linas.P said:

 

I think this was absolutely brilliant idea from business perspective... they made the warranty worse, but made it sound like significantly better! Customers who buys new or nearly new cars from them will benefit, customers who are unprofitable anyway will cost them less to support. 

As I said before - I would be mad at them, but I can't be just because I see how much business sense it makes. It was genius move!

 

I agree  with Linas.P that from a business perspective it is brilliant as it will generate a lot of business for their dealers who must be feeling the effects of Covid lockdowns. However, it will be  a short lived benefit, because all the owners who wouldn't normally go to Lexus will be attracted by the "free" warranty. They will soon find out that all is not as it seems and then when they find out how much all the things that the dealers will find wrong  that are not covered will cost them , then they will desert in droves. One of the  primary drivers for me with Lexus and their old warranty is the fact that if it isn't a service item and you haven't broken it by carelessness, it's covered , so go off and fix it. All dealers  will be under pressure from their masters to recover profits lost over the last 18 months so anybody who goes to Lexus with high expectations will be disappointed if not thoroughly rinsed. These cars don't go wrong often but when they do.......

Lexus already try it on at every service ,  your air con needs regassing, your tyres  have some small cracks in the tread, we can replace them for 50% above high street prices, your tyres are wearing funny ( they weren't) you need a four wheel alignment. Fortunately I'm a mechanical engineer so I can sort out the BS from what's real but not everyone will have that background.

As I said earlier there is no apparent financing for this warranty,so  the costs are going to be met from ripping off the unwary.

As you can guess, I am very disappointed with Lexus over this. I thought I had found a manufacturer that I could have  a  long term relationship with (12 years and 4 cars to date) . This may not be so. My old warranty doesn't run out for 9 months or so. I will review my reationship with Lexus at that point when I can see how this is all panning out.

[royoftherovers]

49 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

I was looking through some of the Lexus franchises websites and there seems to be various flavours of Essential Servicing still available that don't seem to strictly follow what used to be on the Lexus website. Lexus Reading link directly to the UK Lexus website (as do some other franchises) and so show no offering beyond full price servicing but I do wonder if for cars that are beyond the Relax criteria (like mine) whether franchises will start and offer their own value pricing (so for servicing with no Relax warranty but with hybrid health check) to retain a customer within their franchise?

If yuh dunna ask, yuh not gunna get !

[wharfhouse]

Just now, royoftherovers said:

If yuh dunna ask, yuh not gunna get !

Yep, once I have had the last (minor) service in my current Essential Care plan (which will probably be around November - same time as my Extended Warranty expires) I will be asking Lexus Reading what they will be offering me if they want me to keep having the car serviced with them. 

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, wharfhouse said:

Yep, once I have had the last (minor) service in my current Essential Care plan (which will probably be around November - same time as my Extended Warranty expires) I will be asking Lexus Reading what they will be offering me if they want me to keep having the car serviced with them. 

Please do share the reply with us Phil.🤣