Distance buying from franchise..

[Linas.P]

3 minutes ago, PJD69 said:

Tough call with an exhausted delivery driver on your doorstep waiting for a lift to the train station!

It sounds like 'alls well that ends well' in your case, so that's pleasing.

Yes, it could be the case... but as I said there is always an option to inspect car next day after initial excitement wears out. 

Obviously... as I and other said, ask all the questions before delivery and have everything in writing. Even open ended questions like "are there any imperfections on pain/leather/dash", "any stone chip on windscreen" or "any other mechanical problems you know of" can work. If they say no and there are imperfections that crates perfect reason to reject the car or to ask for it to be addressed. 

[Chris111]

7 minutes ago, PJD69 said:

Tough call with an exhausted delivery driver on your doorstep waiting for a lift to the train station!

In my case it was the dealership owner (non Lexus though) and it came on a transporter.

[Mr Vlad]

Just been on the Lexus website to search servicing. LEC Lexus Essential Care exists. 

[Shahpor]

46 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

Just been on the Lexus website to search servicing. LEC Lexus Essential Care exists. 

The Essential care for parts is still there, but the prices for the actually services have been removed and have been discontinued.

[Mr Vlad]

I only had a quick look but do recall not seeing service charges only for things like brake pads etc. I'm on a 2 year service plan on essential care so when I go for my cars next service I'll ask at the service desk what has happened and why to the essential service plans.

[Linas.P]

Honestly... it was just too good value. I was mainly servicing my car in Lexus, because I could not get cheaper service anywhere else. I think for IS250 2 year plan was something like £390 (275+115?) but often discounted further... I think I paid like £285 last time. 

Compared to awful places like Kwik-scam and Halfrauds, it is not much more expensive (both costing ~£320), just without risk of being defrauded. I would never trust those places to even look at my car never mind touch it. I would trust ATS Euromaster or Toyota for service, but they both actually charge more than Lexus (~400-500). And finally with Lexus you can always choose to take brand new Lexus as courtesy car... instead of being stuck in something silly like Toyota Aygo and even that one for extra £30 charge.

I think original idea was to use it as a marketing tool for customers with car between 5-10 years old i.e. bring owners in give them new Lexus to drive, find £2000 worth of issues on their old car and then upsell them with upgrade. In reality it mostly attracted customers like me with 200k 12year old cars i.e. people who you can't get into your new cars and who simply ignore astronomical bills and just sticks with whatever is included in the bill.

 

[Lex_1988]

I just entered my Reg into the below and it came back with my 7 year service at £285.

https://www.lexus.co.uk/owners/servicing-and-maintenance/vehicle-service/

Would need to add a hybrid check onto that but still great value.  

[PJD69]

So... thanks for all the feedback you lovely people.

I would share the listing from the Lexus website, but it's been removed because.. I'm in the process of buying it 😊

So here's a picture for now of the 2011 IS250 F-Sport. Probably a fairly pedestrian car to many posters here with bigger pockets, but for me personally.. it's a dream car!

And it was all going so well and then...going thru MOT.... : 

Quote

• Windscreen damaged but not adversely affecting driver's view Windscreen chipped (3.2 (a) (i))

Sadly this is 'Repair as soon as possible' advisory. I'm waiting to speak to the manager about how big the chip is, if it can be repaired properly so a clean MOT can be applied (presume repairs are considered a permanent fix?), or if the windscreen needs replacement.

I'm pre-empting the response from Lexus, as the anticipation and excitement was building. I do hope this doesn't scupper the deal. We were potentially to receive the car on Thursday.

Any comments are welcome...

[Cactus]

I can only share my experience. Bought four cars in the last 3 years lexus hull, liverpool, derby and hedgend. All distance buying, i havent had any issues.

I think approved used have a certain standards? Or i am incredibly lucky.

 

barry

[doog442]

35 minutes ago, PJD69 said:

So... thanks for all the feedback you lovely people.

I would share the listing from the Lexus website, but it's been removed because.. I'm in the process of buying it 😊

So here's a picture for now of the 2011 IS250 F-Sport. Probably a fairly pedestrian car to many posters here with bigger pockets, but for me personally.. it's a dream car!

And it was all going so well and then...going thru MOT.... : 

Sadly this is 'Repair as soon as possible' advisory. I'm waiting to speak to the manager about how big the chip is, if it can be repaired properly so a clean MOT can be applied (presume repairs are considered a permanent fix?), or if the windscreen needs replacement.

I'm pre-empting the response from Lexus, as the anticipation and excitement was building. I do hope this doesn't scupper the deal. We were potentially to receive the car on Thursday.

Any comments are welcome...

I'm not sure what to say but well done for due diligence. I hate windscreen chips, hopefully its been sorted. It might be a little 'tester' if they haven't touched it, that said on a 2011 vehicle I guess you can expect a few wear and tear issues. Windscreen repairs can be pretty good nowadays, strangely enough if its a decent size its usually easier to deal with than the smaller chips. They'll have a windscreen repair guy to call on so really shouldn't be an issue.

 

ps how are the alloys ?  

[PJD69]

4 minutes ago, doog442 said:

I'm not sure what to say but well done for due diligence. I hate windscreen chips, hopefully its been sorted. It might be a little 'tester' if they haven't touched it, that said on a 2011 vehicle I guess you can expect a few wear and tear issues. Windscreen repairs can be pretty good nowadays, strangely enough if its a decent size its usually easier to deal with than the smaller chips. They'll have a windscreen repair guy to call on so really shouldn't be an issue.

 

ps how are the alloys ?  

Yes not expecting absolute perfection on a 2011 car, I do want to know about any imperfections before it's delivered! I'm not sure what you mean by 'tester'?

Regarding the alloys from I can make out of the grainy videos I was sent they look reasonable, the rear two may be absolutely fine, the front two are however kerbed slightly and Lexus agreed to refurb these as part of the deal.

I think they should provide HD videos, I've found a lot of car retailers send low resolution videos which seems a bit silly really.. I'm going to ask for detailed shots/video.. including of the alloys after they've been done.

[Phil xxkr]

46 minutes ago, PJD69 said:

So... thanks for all the feedback you lovely people.

I would share the listing from the Lexus website, but it's been removed because.. I'm in the process of buying it 😊

So here's a picture for now of the 2011 IS250 F-Sport. Probably a fairly pedestrian car to many posters here with bigger pockets, but for me personally.. it's a dream car!

And it was all going so well and then...going thru MOT.... : 

Sadly this is 'Repair as soon as possible' advisory. I'm waiting to speak to the manager about how big the chip is, if it can be repaired properly so a clean MOT can be applied (presume repairs are considered a permanent fix?), or if the windscreen needs replacement.

I'm pre-empting the response from Lexus, as the anticipation and excitement was building. I do hope this doesn't scupper the deal. We were potentially to receive the car on Thursday.

Any comments are welcome...

Paul, Thursday is a day or so from the end of the May accounting month so the firm will be keen to register the sale and will apply pressure to conclude. This can work in your favour however a replacement screen is a significant cost and depending on how much is in the deal will affect the dealers attitude. You need a professional judgment on the true extent of the damage, is it genuinely repairable without a compromised screen integrity? Personally I think a price reduction of say £1k is a good starting point for you to take on the forward risk. After that who knows what may happen? It may even involve your insurance company for example. 

[PJD69]

2 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

Paul, Thursday is a day or so from the end of the May accounting month so the firm will be keen to register the sale and will apply pressure to conclude. This can work in your favour however a replacement screen is a significant cost and depending on how much is in the deal will affect the dealers attitude. You need a professional judgment on the true extent of the damage, is it genuinely repairable without a compromised screen integrity? Personally I think a price reduction of say £1k is a good starting point for you to take on the forward risk. After that who knows what may happen? It may even involve your insurance company for example. 

Food for thought, thank you.

I think I need a clear photograph of the chip before any attempt to repair it to make an informed decision. Unless they do the screen itself.

Disappointed that it had to go into the workshop for this to be noticed.

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, PJD69 said:

I do hope this doesn't scupper the deal.

I rather think that would very much be a case of chucking out the baby with the bath water.

First of all, it's an advisory, not a fail - the car has actually passed the MOT (assuming there's nothing else that you haven't mentioned).

Secondly, as long as it's out of the critical area and not too big, a repair will more than suffice.

I had a car with a stone chip that appeared as an advisory on every MOT for 5 years but never got any worse. When I sold the car the dealer put it through an MOT for the new owner and it was still noted as an advisory.

Some info on windscreen areas and chips/cracks

Quote

Disappointed that it had to go into the workshop for this to be noticed.

That implies that it's only a very small chip or it would have been seen earlier. It may even just be an over-zealous MOT tester covering his backside.

[is200 Newbie]

Just one point, if you are putting your trust into the dealer telling you what is wrong with the car over the distance selling you are making, how many checks did you say they were actually doing? Should these checks made cover the obvious points checked at MOT as a start point for the 100 or whatever checks they make report to the buyer which would have covered the screen? I would question the checks they have made and informed you of ... So what else have they checked (not) that may come up during early ownership. If the screen is to be replaced then absolutely make sure that it works, ie, the heating elements and its sealed correctly and also the replacement does not introduce any of the noise that was evident in the early days around the screen/dash.

As you should be aware, the callipers are a weak spot on these, have they been assessed as part of the checks Lexus have made? I will bet they are reported as good but upon next visit to Lexus there will be a recommendation to replace them! Have they issued you with an inspection report?

Also, exhaust checked, if not have it checked by them. You are paying dealer prices for this so make sure any issues are highlighted and put right before purchase. Like you said, if it goes wrong, what option do you have to return it to be repaired? Will they accept it at a more local dealer to be repaired if required?

I have probably missed it but what is the mileage of it as there are certain milestones that works required or things start to fail that should be looked out for such as main service (plugs at 60k) water pump usually between 70 to 100k (white crust is a sign around pump area) Exhaust can last for a while but with a lot of stop / start / short journeys then pre 100k is entirely likely and you dont know how it has been driven previously.

Just things to bear in mind, but for me, having a garage state they have done checks and then to find its an MOT failure through what would be an obvious finding would make me question the actual checks made. Just my opinion, i am sure others will question it...

[Spacewagon52]

I really do hope you get the car Paul and it meets your expectations. I have not purchased any of my cars from a Lexus dealer. I travelled to Bristol to purchase my 400h from an independent dealer. I like to take the wife as she has a keen eye for detail, as I tend to just get excited if it looks good! I did see wear and tear issues and missed a couple as well. However, overall I appreciated that the car was 12 years old. I accepted that unless the car was a complete dog, I would not be able to travel back to the dealers easily - so I decided I might have to cover the costs of some extra items that needed doing. I decided to change the tyres as they were grazing due to age. Your situation is different as you are paying, I presume, top dollar from a Lexus dealer. 

I must be honest, I would be far more "anxious" if I felt I was paying a very large sum for a vehicle.

Please let us know how you get on. I would presume, hand on heart, that if a main Lexus dealer was selling a 10 year old car, then it would not be a complete wreck - or am I being naive? 

[Herbie]

2 hours ago, is200 Newbie said:

Just things to bear in mind, but for me, having a garage state they have done checks and then to find its an MOT failure

It is not a failure, it is an advisory. The car has passed an MOT but attention has been drawn to a chip in the windscreen and it is/was apparently so small that it was only noticed at MOT time. If it really was anything major it would have been seen well before then.

[Phil xxkr]

8 minutes ago, Herbie said:

It is not a failure, it is an advisory. The car has passed an MOT but attention has been drawn to a chip in the windscreen and it is/was apparently so small that it was only noticed at MOT time. If it really was anything major it would have been seen well before then.

Morning Herbs, an Mot is mostly one of testing the testers opinions within a prescribed set of conditions. It could well be another tester has another opinion but that aside the advice was repair as soon possible. This would imply it's rather more problematical than a mere chip. Crucially it could be adversely affecting the integrity of the whole screen which has different implications. 

[Spacewagon52]

One man's junk is another man's treasure. One tester's fail is another tester's pass! Without seeing the chip it is hard to known how "bad" it is.

 

Keep us updated Paul.

[PJD69]

2 hours ago, is200 Newbie said:

Just one point, if you are putting your trust into the dealer telling you what is wrong with the car over the distance selling you are making, how many checks did you say they were actually doing? Should these checks made cover the obvious points checked at MOT as a start point for the 100 or whatever checks they make report to the buyer which would have covered the screen? I would question the checks they have made and informed you of ... So what else have they checked (not) that may come up during early ownership. If the screen is to be replaced then absolutely make sure that it works, ie, the heating elements and its sealed correctly and also the replacement does not introduce any of the noise that was evident in the early days around the screen/dash.

As you should be aware, the callipers are a weak spot on these, have they been assessed as part of the checks Lexus have made? I will bet they are reported as good but upon next visit to Lexus there will be a recommendation to replace them! Have they issued you with an inspection report?

Hi Shaun. Not yet, and I've not found anyone posting the contents of the 150 point check, do they even give the customer a copy? If I'm to proceed I would like to see it! Callipers and water pump, must surely be part of the check or be covered by warranty?

WRT the exhaust, I asked for detailed photographs of the underside of the car (covers off, obviously) whilst its on the ramp - something which you graciously did for me when I looked at your car - and I've done due diligence on the servicing (considerable - some servicing recorded on invoices at another dealership seem not to have been entered on Lexus' computer systems, so according to their systems it missed a year, but I've been talked through the invoices for works done back to 2016 nothing ominous). It had the 60k w/ spark plugs.

2 hours ago, is200 Newbie said:

Just things to bear in mind, but for me, having a garage state they have done checks and then to find its an MOT failure through what would be an obvious finding would make me question the actual checks made. Just my opinion, i am sure others will question it...

I do think it's a pity that cars are offered to the public prior to checks, MOT. Was warned at the outset that a car can be condemned as it passes through the workshop due to uneconomical repairs needed, and I've actually been through this process before at another Lexus dealership and it was a let down when trying to secure the car, to learn it was going to head to auction instead.

I suppose it's about turning the cars over quickly, I accept this is a premium brand and these older cars are small fry to them but it be nice as a customer to be considering cars that already have a clean bill of health?

Tbh I've probably looked at the MOT history of 30+ Lexus to date, it's the first time I've seen screen chip (most are just tyres and brakes as we know), and I probably wouldn't have considered the car if I'd seen this advisory when screening. If for no other reason - it's always there on the history - and the window ofc is not just something to look through, it's a structural component of the car.

29 minutes ago, Herbie said:

It is not a failure, it is an advisory. The car has passed an MOT but attention has been drawn to a chip in the windscreen and it is/was apparently so small that it was only noticed at MOT time. If it really was anything major it would have been seen well before then.

I'm not so sure. Photographs received. See for yourself (attachments). It's not one chip, it's several. I don't know if it's a reflection in the laminate, but they appear to be in pairs, if so that would suggest maybe not individual stones but some other object striking the window. Again perhaps its expediency in terms of turning cars over, but I suspect I would have seen these marks at the point of a trade in. Hard not to when sat behind the wheel, surely, as they are in line of sight of the driver? A specialist is coming to see if they can be filled (will residual marks remain that bug the life out of me?), if not they will be left as is!

[PJD69]

37 minutes ago, Spacewagon52 said:

One man's junk is another man's treasure. One tester's fail is another tester's pass! Without seeing the chip it is hard to known how "bad" it is.

The attachments should give you an idea. Do open them on your desktop, the images are fairly decent, but clicking inline in the forum doesn't expose the full resolution.

38 minutes ago, Spacewagon52 said:

Keep us updated Paul.

 I'm will do, as the drama continues. Only at page 4 so far.

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, PJD69 said:

Hi Shaun. Not yet, and I've not found anyone posting the contents of the 150 point check, do they even give the customer a copy? If I'm to proceed I would like to see it! Callipers and water pump, must surely be part of the check or be covered by warranty?

WRT the exhaust, I asked for detailed photographs of the underside of the car (covers off, obviously) whilst its on the ramp - something which you graciously did for me when I looked at your car - and I've done due diligence on the servicing (considerable - some servicing recorded on invoices at another dealership seem not to have been entered on Lexus' computer systems, so according to their systems it missed a year, but I've been talked through the invoices for works done back to 2016 nothing ominous). It had the 60k w/ spark plugs.

I do think it's a pity that cars are offered to the public prior to checks, MOT. Was warned at the outset that a car can be condemned as it passes through the workshop due to uneconomical repairs needed, and I've actually been through this process before at another Lexus dealership and it was a let down when trying to secure the car, to learn it was going to head to auction instead.

I suppose it's about turning the cars over quickly, I accept this is a premium brand and these older cars are small fry to them but it be nice as a customer to be considering cars that already have a clean bill of health?

Tbh I've probably looked at the MOT history of 30+ Lexus to date, it's the first time I've seen screen chip (most are just tyres and brakes as we know), and I probably wouldn't have considered the car if I'd seen this advisory when screening. If for no other reason - it's always there on the history - and the window ofc is not just something to look through, it's a structural component of the car.

I'm not so sure. Photographs received. See for yourself (attachments). It's not one chip, it's several. I don't know if it's a reflection in the laminate, but they appear to be in pairs, if so that would suggest maybe not individual stones but some other object striking the window. Again perhaps its expediency in terms of turning cars over, but I suspect I would have seen these marks at the point of a trade in. Hard not to when sat behind the wheel, surely, as they are in line of sight of the driver? A specialist is coming to see if they can be filled (will residual marks remain that bug the life out of me?), if not they will be left as is!

When zoomed in, the bottom photo seems to show two chips that appear to be either side of the steering wheel. Given how big the steering wheel looks compared to the chips at either side of it, that wouldn't cause me any grief at all and I'd just ignore that. As I said above, I had a chip that appeared on every MOT for more than 5 years and it was about the same size.

The first photo though, may be a different story. There seems to be three pairs of chips and again, I don't think I'd worry about either one of them in isolation, but it's the grouping and closeness of the three groups that may be the problem.

[is200 Newbie]

Something that noticeable in a year or two years time still there if still left when coming to sell then would it be a selling point to bring price down when you are selling?

Its something that's there and you now know its there so its going to always catch your eye when driving. Debatable whether, and sods law it will, that when the one stone hits the screen at that area it splits on or around all chips then its your responsibility, at least the excess of your insurance policy, to have it repaired and the hassle to do so.

[is200 Newbie]

..... so did you buy it ?

[PJD69]

Hi and sorry folks for no follow up, I had to take a break from car related things, as this is now I think the 4th deal to be scuppered so far..

So yes I had a cordial chat with the salesman as Lexus Sidcup and rejected the car and my deposit has been returned. I'm gutted as the car seemed fine in other respects and would have received it already were it not for the stone chips. It's a pity they weren't detected at the front end of the process.

They offered to attempt a repair, but if that failed would sell the car as is. A full window replacement was not offered (uneconomical presumably).

1. As @Herbie says there is a cluster of chips, and whilst I'm no expert in glass, I've read this is not good. 

2. I wouldn't be able to see the repair for myself, and if it did not wholly resolve the chips so they are absolutely invisible, any residual marks in my line of sight would bug the heck out of me.

3. I was mindful of the thread below, if the glass was replaced under my insurance policy. Tbh I doubt a Lexus dealership could replace the windscreen to factory standards. Time and time again, I've read that it's best to retain the original screen, unless it absolutely needs replacing. 

As mentioned, this is the 3rd or 4th time now that I've been at the point of buying a car for things to fall through. It's been a bit of a head <rude word> so I took some time out.

The hunt for an IS250 resumes!

I'm going to broaden the spec I'm looking for, and also limit my searching to something I can see locally.

Thanks for all the comments it's a great community here..