ISF Values - Sorry another one of these posts!

[scott-o]

Morning,

I've been looking at potentially moving my ISF on, i get itchy feet after 6 months usually (im now at 10!) and have recently been offered a good deal on another car i'd like to try. Ideally i'd keep both but thats not within my means at the moment, sadly.

The car is a grey '58' plate, 89k miles, full service history, mix of Lexus and specialist. It's a very very good example and the reason i went for it. 

It's standard other than the Hayward and Scott exhaust and a Roose Motorsport intake hose.

In the 10 months i've had it, its had the radiator/ transcooler done, front disks and pads and and oil/ oil filter/ air filter service, i've done my usual of spending money with a view to keep long term but then getting itchy feet! Waterpump was done early on in its life and checked whilst the rad was being done, all good. It's on Michelin Pilotsport 4S tyres too, rears are getting down to 3ish mm, being honest!

Values seem all over, i think ill contact the specialist i got it off and see what they may offer, but private sale what do you think the bottom line is? I'm not after being greedy, just want to be fair.

Thanks,

Scott

[Linas.P]

I think in current market it is more of the question how much you want and how long you are willing to wait, rather than what it is worth. There are only 2 cars on sale now so trying to compare with current market is kind of pointless.

I would say maybe £16-17k, if you want quick sale than obviously less and any dealership will rip you off based on reference price which does not care about condition of the car and it is especially not good for cars which are appreciating (~11k at most). 

If I would be in your position I would expect at very least as much as I paid 10 month ago, because the market price has stayed more or less the same and based on what you said you have improved the condition of the car. Again, it is more of the question what you want. Even if you list it at £18k or £19k or another arbitrary price - I think it would sell eventually, but how long that is going to take is anyone's guess. 

[C.B]

£17k seemed to be the sweet spot for interest in my 59 plate, 50k mile, FSH, new discs pads & tyres all round car to give you something to work from.

GLWTS

[Killysprint]

Yaris Gr by any chance.....!!!???

We had the demo car you had a couple of weeks back as my son ordered one. Epic.

market for performance cars seems to be strong at the moment. Prices holding if not increasing for the right car. 

good luck with the sale of the ISF

[scott-o]

 

6 hours ago, Linas.P said:

I think in current market it is more of the question how much you want and how long you are willing to wait, rather than what it is worth. There are only 2 cars on sale now so trying to compare with current market is kind of pointless.

I would say maybe £16-17k, if you want quick sale than obviously less and any dealership will rip you off based on reference price which does not care about condition of the car and it is especially not good for cars which are appreciating (~11k at most). 

If I would be in your position I would expect at very least as much as I paid 10 month ago, because the market price has stayed more or less the same and based on what you said you have improved the condition of the car. Again, it is more of the question what you want. Even if you list it at £18k or £19k or another arbitrary price - I think it would sell eventually, but how long that is going to take is anyone's guess. 

Thats good, thanks for the pointers, if i end up with mid 15 - mid 16 ill be happy enough! Like i say, im not greedy about value so wouldnt be interested about putting it up for high value and waiting, just more time to deal with time wasters 😂

3 hours ago, C.B said:

£17k seemed to be the sweet spot for interest in my 59 plate, 50k mile, FSH, new discs pads & tyres all round car to give you something to work from.

GLWTS

Thanks! I thought that would be upper end of what i may get but happy to be a grand or so less.

1 hour ago, Killysprint said:

Yaris Gr by any chance.....!!!???

We had the demo car you had a couple of weeks back as my son ordered one. Epic.

market for performance cars seems to be strong at the moment. Prices holding if not increasing for the right car. 

good luck with the sale of the ISF

Potentially! I had it for the full weekend and loved it. It would also free up some cash if i take advantage of the 0% deal and with the missus not going back to work after her maternity leave thats quite an important factor at the moment.

I love the ISF but i kind of just trundle about in it, if its nice weather ill take my old bmw out and if its wet i dont really want to go for a proper hoon in the ISF as i dont think it will end well 😂 where is your son purchasing from, is it a Stoneacre branch? My mums boyfriend is with Stoneacre and kindly sorted the extended test period, which was much appreciated!

And thanks, the specialist i got it from has said they'd definitely be interested in taking it back, will have a chat with them this week for ease!

[Womble72]

The prices in the states are definitely on the increase, RCFs are being sold at lesser figures, they seem stable here but I’d be amazed if they don’t creep up here too. 

[Linas.P]

5 minutes ago, scott-o said:

Thats good, thanks for the pointers, if i end up with mid 15 - mid 16 ill be happy enough! Like i say, im not greedy about value so wouldnt be interested about putting it up for high value and waiting, just more time to deal with time wasters 😂

No problem... at that sort of price I think it will be quick sale, not much to choose there and you car sounds like a good deal. Good luck!

[Killysprint]

55 minutes ago, scott-o said:

 

Thats good, thanks for the pointers, if i end up with mid 15 - mid 16 ill be happy enough! Like i say, im not greedy about value so wouldnt be interested about putting it up for high value and waiting, just more time to deal with time wasters 😂

Thanks! I thought that would be upper end of what i may get but happy to be a grand or so less.

Potentially! I had it for the full weekend and loved it. It would also free up some cash if i take advantage of the 0% deal and with the missus not going back to work after her maternity leave thats quite an important factor at the moment.

I love the ISF but i kind of just trundle about in it, if its nice weather ill take my old bmw out and if its wet i dont really want to go for a proper hoon in the ISF as i dont think it will end well 😂 where is your son purchasing from, is it a Stoneacre branch? My mums boyfriend is with Stoneacre and kindly sorted the extended test period, which was much appreciated!

And thanks, the specialist i got it from has said they'd definitely be interested in taking it back, will have a chat with them this week for ease!

He’s got his order in at the metro centre branch. Black circuit pack. He’s had a gt86 for the past 3 and a bit years, has been brilliant, a cracking steer and as I said prices for the right car are strong - stoneacre are offering nearly what I paid for it in dec 17 for it against the Yaris. The Yaris was amazing, grip, handling and the grunt were fantastic for a little car. Only thing I wasn’t keen on was the front passenger seat sat very high, but that’s minor. Whatever you decide you’ll have a cracking car - Yaris or isf.

hopefully we get some finer weather so you can get your 2002 out. It’s a special thing, love it.

This is my ‘70s guilty pleasure. Bored +40, dms2 Kent cam, bottom end lightened and balanced, 45’s. About 170hp And a pioneer kex cassette player with a graphic equaliser and the obligatory shelf speakers.

[scott-o]

14 hours ago, Killysprint said:

He’s got his order in at the metro centre branch. Black circuit pack. He’s had a gt86 for the past 3 and a bit years, has been brilliant, a cracking steer and as I said prices for the right car are strong - stoneacre are offering nearly what I paid for it in dec 17 for it against the Yaris. The Yaris was amazing, grip, handling and the grunt were fantastic for a little car. Only thing I wasn’t keen on was the front passenger seat sat very high, but that’s minor. Whatever you decide you’ll have a cracking car - Yaris or isf.

hopefully we get some finer weather so you can get your 2002 out. It’s a special thing, love it.

This is my ‘70s guilty pleasure. Bored +40, dms2 Kent cam, bottom end lightened and balanced, 45’s. About 170hp And a pioneer kex cassette player with a graphic equaliser and the obligatory shelf speakers.

Cracking, im unsure on colours, i like them all but will take whatever pops up first with the circuit pack to be honest, i've been given a contact to call today and sort out so think ill order one regardless! Agree on passenger seat height, i took a few mates out in turn and one did comment on that. The drivers seating position seemed good to me though, many reviews say otherwise, i really dont agree with them on that! The mirror/ dash screen obscured view i didnt find to be a thing either!

Love the Dolly! Its like a British 2002 albeit that looks to have more creature comforts than mine! I really like the engines in those things, its British engineering at its best how they've made them 16v, the competition engine builders i help out at does a fair few of them considering how uncommon they are. The place that rebuilt my gearbox and prep 2002's for racing also built and look after an old group 2 one, lovely thing.

I do hope i can bump into you in that or the gsf one time when im out driving, would love to see either! Or maybe with your son in the Yaris 😁

[Fair and square]

For the last 12 months the prices of used vehicles have gone through the roof and there are several factors:

Firstly, when the world went into hard lockdown Jan-Apr 2020 brand new vehicle production came to a stop, like a domino effect there were a number of reasons - let’s take Nissan GB operations Sunderland. So, in January 2020 China goes into lockdown, they stop the import and production of raw materials (plastics) in turn, for Nissan GB, who at this point are still operating and producing cars will shortly run out of stock of their interior plastics. March comes, GB goes into lockdown and not only are Nissan out of plastics, but they now cannot produce vehicles.

June/July, the return to work starts and Nissan GB open the plant, social distancing rules apply so the factory operates at a greatly reduced capacity, pre ordered 2020 cars fall behind and there is catch up to be done. The plastics start to arrive for Nissan, but they are behind on surplus orders, so Nissan, along with the rest of the world demands additional stock (plastic interiors), demand increases, supply/stock reduces, so in turn a price increase happens, Nissan stall on their request and instead wait for stability in the market - this could take months. So, once again production slows at the plant.

Secondly, in the meantime Mr and Mrs Jones who were due to replace their 2-and-a-half-year-old car in September 2020 discover that there is a 6-month delivery on September cars, problem is, MOT, warranty expiry, Motability 3-year agreement and all the rest of it dictates that they must settle for a 12-month-old used car (demonstrator, ex lease, whatever!)

So suddenly, a portion of previously new car buyers, become used car buyers, thus eating stock.

Thirdly, the next issue that follows on is Mr and Mrs Jones, who just like the above example, now need to change their car however, unlike the above, Mr and Mrs Jones are happy to wait. So, in turn Mr and Mrs Jones 3-year-old car does not come into the system for at least 6 months, thus contributing to a choke in the used car market.

So not only is supply reduced, but the demand is also increased.

Fourthly, Jo Bloggs, April 2020 gets furloughed from work, he is over the moon. He can now sit at home and get paid for it, so in the meantime he decides to set up a little business, cooking food from home and delivering as takeaways, he is making a good bit of money. On top of that Joe is no longer having to pay to go the pub with his mates on a Thursday night. His once-a-month weekend trip with his Mistress is now out of the window and his wife, well, she isn't looking at booking the next holiday to Portugal. Joe has surplus cash but is bored at home and his outgoings have massively reduced, so what does Joe do, he goes and achieves a long-life ambition and looks at what V8 cars he can buy with his surplus cash - he has to buy used as new stock is not readily available or, affordable.

Another choke on the used car market.

Today, prices have continued to rise dependent upon the desirability of the car, the difference today been, that cars are not turning over as quick. As furlough and aid to businesses stop, the financial and personal choke is now taking place and for most forum members we have witnessed this for ourselves, where by in 2019 a 2015 50,000 RCF would retail for 26-27k and would sell within a month or two. Last year (2020) the exact same year 2015 50,000 RCF would retail for 30k but would turn around within a week or two. Today, here we are and the exact 2015 50,000 RCF still retails for 30k but, will sit on the trader for months on end.

This scenario is not exclusive to Lexus. In 2019 a 2006 v8 vantage 60,000 on the clock was down to 22k and would sit around for months on end. 2020 the same 2006 v8 vantage with 60,000 on the clock was up to 27k. This year 2021, the absolute same 2006 v8 vantage 60,000 on the clock are now as high as 29k, admittedly they are now hanging around, but the car, is no more exclusive in terms of numbers, it is purely the increased demand.

At some point this bubble must burst, it is basic economics of supply and demand.

As the free money stops, brand new stock starts to get delivered, used cars start to make there way through the system things will change.

SCOTT - in reference to your 58 reg ISF with 89,000 on the clock I would be suggesting purely based upon your description and current pricing, 15k would put the car in competitively priced category, 17k, the less competitive but still fair. As always, price the car upon how eager you are to see it go.

[scott-o]

Thanks, i've put it in the classified section and will see what happens!

 

[scott-o]

Well im 3-4k below dealers offering similar cars (not as good examples in my opinion) and have had a lot of interest but nothing solid yet. I know its only been a couple of weeks but i thought someone would have snapped this up with how good an example it is for the money it is up for. I've had some low ball offers out of the blue and without prior discussion that havent been entertained, i've also had some chats and relatively sensible offers which have amounted to nothing when push came to shove and coming to view the car was mentioned. Not sure how people do this for a living!

[Bluethunder]

10 hours ago, scott-o said:

Well im 3-4k below dealers offering similar cars (not as good examples in my opinion) and have had a lot of interest but nothing solid yet. I know its only been a couple of weeks but i thought someone would have snapped this up with how good an example it is for the money it is up for. I've had some low ball offers out of the blue and without prior discussion that havent been entertained, i've also had some chats and relatively sensible offers which have amounted to nothing when push came to shove and coming to view the car was mentioned. Not sure how people do this for a living!

It can be hard work selling a car!... From past experience, when they try to negotiate the price before viewing it's usually a bad sign. 

Unless you desperately need to sell just stick with your price but could take a few months. Good luck with the sale!