HEADREST = DESIGN FLAW?

[Pastore]

Recently bought a CT200H

Loving the car so far, this is the only issue with me.

We all know the angle they sit at -slanted forwards which is not a natural design for any seating headrest be it for a car, office, home or anywhere else.

The purpose of car headrest is to 1 provide comfort and 2 safety in event of accident.

After numerous adjusting of my seating since day 1 find myself my neck pain everyday on way in and way back from work to the point where i not longer enjoy driving the car.

Wondering how others have resolved this issue?

currently my thinking is:

1. to literally bend the metal pins to give a a more natural "straight" position

2. purchase a third party headrest

Thanks for reading and happy driving!

🙂

[royoftherovers]

First and foremost Nadeem it is a Head Restraint.

I don`t have a CT and so am unable to comment on your particular problem.

Others will be along soon to advise.

[Spacewagon52]

37 minutes ago, Pastore said:

Recently bought a CT200H

Loving the car so far, this is the only issue with me.

We all know the angle they sit at -slanted forwards which is not a natural design for any seating headrest be it for a car, office, home or anywhere else.

The purpose of car headrest is to 1 provide comfort and 2 safety in event of accident.

After numerous adjusting of my seating since day 1 find myself my neck pain everyday on way in and way back from work to the point where i not longer enjoy driving the car.

Wondering how others have resolved this issue?

currently my thinking is:

1. to literally bend the metal pins to give a a more natural "straight" position

2. purchase a third party headrest

Thanks for reading and happy driving!

🙂

That is interesting as I do not have my head against the headrest while driving. What do others do?

[Las Palmas]

Headrest is maybe not the correct description.

I suppose it is there in order to prevent damage to the neck in case the is being hit from behind.

For me 180cm and my wife 168cm it is perfect.

[rich1068]

42 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

First and foremost Nadeem it is a Head Restraint.

I don`t have a CT and so am unable to comment on your particular problem.

Others will be along soon to advise.

Agree with John. Certainly not for comfort. It's to stop your neck snapping back in a shunt from the rear.

But I am surprised it doesn't allow movement front to rear. The only cars I've ever come across designed like that are Volvos.

 

[Las Palmas]

1 hour ago, rich1068 said:

Agree with John. Certainly not for comfort. It's to stop your neck snapping back in a shunt from the rear.

But I am surprised it doesn't allow movement front to rear. The only cars I've ever come across designed like that are Volvos.

 

Volvo is not really having security flaws? At least not the older models I know of. Several years since I was in a Volvo, but a friend of mine has one and once when a little lady hit his Volvo with her Renault 12, that got rather damaged, and she asked if he needed a report to his insurance company, he looked at his car and said: No my friend. No problem at all. It is a Volvo.

[rich1068]

Not a flaw at all. The Volvo ones are fixed at the safest position. No adjustment forward, back, up or down is possible.

[Las Palmas]

27 minutes ago, rich1068 said:

Not a flaw at all. The Volvo ones are fixed at the safest position. No adjustment forward, back, up or down is possible.

Up and then down again is possible on the CT. Not that 180cm needs it up and not that it is too high for 168cm, but some people are much taller and would still be able to sit in the CT (with seat in the lowest position) and for those a bit up would not be a bad thing.

[stormchaser]

No design flaw at all.

Who drives with there head against it anyway? I really don,t know how this can cause neck pain 🤷‍♂️

[Fusspot]

Lexus wise, I had a CT, followed by IS and now ES, and I agree with the OP that the headrest in the CT was uncomfortable. It always felt like it was pushing into my head, whereas I have had no such issues with the IS or ES. The CT headrest / seat geometry (95th percentile) would appear to be different.

The degree of discomfort depends on ones anatomy, and in some cases certainly could cause pain. So I do have some sympathy over this issue.

 

 

[Boo]

Funny that this is mentioned as a few days ago I was thinking a similar thing.
The lexus is the only car where i can have the seat comfortably set where I can lean against the head rest (eg. long motorway run) and still be comfortably driving without the head slightly angled upwards like on all other cars Ive driven.

However never experienced pain on neck whatever car

[Las Palmas]

A pillow is a headrest. Many things are headrests. If you need to use a headrest while driving, maybe you should stop and take a nap instead of driving.

[-Error-]

Okay to start with your initial post no, the head restraint is to:

1. Provide safety in an accident
2. Comfort whilst driving.

It is not bad practice to drive with your head resting against it however in most cars these are by no means designed for resting on. Some Mercs and BMW's will have soft pillows mounted on them to provide you with comfort, some cars will have 3 axis of adjustment, however the main purpose of them is to prevent whiplash or worse during an accident. The slanted forward design in the headrest points toward crash safety as the energy absorption will be much better, a flat contact patch will be much stiffer.

I would definitely advise against any third party headrest options, chances are they will not have gone through the rigorous crash testing and R&D and will fail when they are most needed. Bending the metal pins is a definite no-no from me, you will jeopardise the integrity of the equipment which in turn invalidates your insurance and again puts yourself at risk of a serious injury.

[Las Palmas]

1 hour ago, -Error- said:

Okay to start with your initial post no, the head restraint is to:

1. Provide safety in an accident
2. Comfort whilst driving.

It is not bad practice to drive with your head resting against it however in most cars these are by no means designed for resting on. Some Mercs and BMW's will have soft pillows mounted on them to provide you with comfort, some cars will have 3 axis of adjustment, however the main purpose of them is to prevent whiplash or worse during an accident. The slanted forward design in the headrest points toward crash safety as the energy absorption will be much better, a flat contact patch will be much stiffer. = Totally correct.

I would definitely advise against any third party headrest options, chances are they will not have gone through the rigorous crash testing and R&D and will fail when they are most needed. Bending the metal pins is a definite no-no from me, you will jeopardise the integrity of the equipment which in turn invalidates your insurance and again puts yourself at risk of a serious injury. = Absolutely

1. Provide safety in an accident - Absolutely
2. Comfort whilst driving. - Only for passenger, not driver. Driver is meant to be driving, not resting.

[-Error-]

1 hour ago, Las Palmas said:

1. Provide safety in an accident - Absolutely
2. Comfort whilst driving. - Only for passenger, not driver. Driver is meant to be driving, not resting.

John I'd argue driving and resting are not mutually exclusive activities. Although parts of interior will be designed with safety in principle they will also serve as a comfort feature. Head restraint is one good example, but the rest of the seat is designed in the same way. Same goes for sun visors - they obstruct your view and you could always use suitable eyewear instead. We'd all be sitting in bucket seats and wearing HANS devices in full fire retardant clothing every time we sit in the car if we wanted full safety at all times.

If one's feeling more comfortable resting their head they are fully entitled to do so. It does not necessarily mean they pay any less attention to the road. 

If drivers are meant to be driving and not resting, why are most arm rests designed so that the driver cannot use it whilst simultaneously holding the steering wheel? Two reasons - most drivers don't use two hands at all times and there's no escaping that fact and if the armrest was too close it would be in the way of properly operating the steering wheel.

I have never used a headrest simply because I find it uncomfortable, I have however driven a 7 Series BMW on a long journey where the design allowed me to do so whilst maintaining my neutral position. In my opinion there's nothing wrong with being comfortable as long as its safe.

[Fusspot]

At the risk of incurring wrath, I think some of the respondents to this post are missing the point and being too critical.

The original poster may regret saying the head restraint should "provide comfort", and suspect what he meant to say was it shouldn't be pushing into the back of your head when sat in the normal driving position. 

Whilst it may be fine for most people, depending on your anatomy, and the position of your head relative to your spine, I'd agree that the CT head restraint position isn't ideal.

[Las Palmas]

1 hour ago, -Error- said:

John I'd argue driving and resting are not mutually exclusive activities. Although parts of interior will be designed with safety in principle they will also serve as a comfort feature. Head restraint is one good example, but the rest of the seat is designed in the same way. Same goes for sun visors - they obstruct your view and you could always use suitable eyewear instead. We'd all be sitting in bucket seats and wearing HANS devices in full fire retardant clothing every time we sit in the car if we wanted full safety at all times.

If one's feeling more comfortable resting their head they are fully entitled to do so. It does not necessarily mean they pay any less attention to the road. 

If drivers are meant to be driving and not resting, why are most arm rests designed so that the driver cannot use it whilst simultaneously holding the steering wheel? Two reasons - most drivers don't use two hands at all times and there's no escaping that fact and if the armrest was too close it would be in the way of properly operating the steering wheel.

I have never used a headrest simply because I find it uncomfortable, I have however driven a 7 Series BMW on a long journey where the design allowed me to do so whilst maintaining my neutral position. In my opinion there's nothing wrong with being comfortable as long as its safe.

We can al use our cars the way we want, but if leaning head on headrest (stupid name) gives a headache, then it is not optimal. I think of it as a way to protect spine if being hit by something from the rear end of the car.

[Las Palmas]

59 minutes ago, Fusspot said:

At the risk of incurring wrath, I think some of the respondents to this post are missing the point and being too critical.

The original poster may regret saying the head restraint should "provide comfort", and suspect what he meant to say was it shouldn't be pushing into the back of your head when sat in the normal driving position. 

Whilst it may be fine for most people, depending on your anatomy, and the position of your head relative to your spine, I'd agree that the CT head restraint position isn't ideal.

While we had the child seat (post above) we turned the headrest of the car the other way around as otherwise the headrest of the child seat would be pushed forward. With reversing the headrest of the child seat was suddenly better positioned than in the VW Gold 2.0tdi DSG the child seat was in before.

I stupidly believe that when driving I am to be alert constantly and not relaxing.

[200h]

despite the name a headrest isnt for resting your head

its where your head may rest in the event of an accident

to help reduce whiplash,

i think you need to adjust your seat correctly and not to adjust

it so your head is touching

[OldTrout]

I had a GS300h one day when my car was in for service. After very few miles I had to remove the headrest. It poked my head forward and I could not adjust it too be useable. When I took it back none of the sales people suggested a solution.

Since then whenever I have been in a showroom it try out the seats. Not done it now for a while so my old results are probably out of date. The CT was one of the cars that failed my tests.

John

[200h]

its possibly the way the seat has been adjusted if you like to sit

bolt upright then yes you may have an issue, if you like to have the

back of the seat reclined then you wont have an issue, my

preference is to have the seat reclined a little.

in the last 7.5 yrs of lexus ownership ive had

1 ct200h , 2 Is300h and now have a Gs300h and never had this issue

[ColinBarber]

On 5/17/2021 at 8:42 AM, royoftherovers said:

First and foremost Nadeem it is a Head Restraint.

Lexus call it a headrest and it serves two purposes, both comfort and safety. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive.

 

For vehicles that don't have active headrests (as found on the LS and RX for example which move forward in the event of a rear end impact) then current designs have moved the headrest permanently forward as an anti-whiplash feature. Depending on your posture, anatomy etc. some people find it uncomfortable - all you can really do is move your seat position to minimise any discomfort.

Specifically for the CT seat design:

Quote

The headrests have been brought forward compared to vehicles with active headrests and the side frames have been reinforced to control the amount the occupant's body sinks into the seatback, allowing for rapid support of the occupant's head, and achieving excellent safety in the event of a low-speed rear collision.

 

[NemesisUK]

Interestingly in my 2019 handbook Lexus refer to them as head restraints, they are not 'active' and have fore and aft adjustment. For me the foremost position just brushes my hair (No.2 cut 😉 ) The restraints do lean forward i.e. the top is more forward than the lower edge but one must remember to adjust the height so the centre of the restraint is level with the tops of one's ears.

I find it very uncomfortable to 'rest' my head against the restraint when driving but when parked up, waiting for Mrs Nemesis, it's very relaxing. Must say these F-Sport seats are one of the most comfortable designs I've experienced 👍

[Pastore]

Thank you for everyone's reply. 

Update ***

 

After changing my positioning slightly by not resting my head against it as much I have noticed the pain to have decreased and also shifted lol. 

Still got to love the car though right!