Another dead 12v auxiliary battery

[GSLV6]

Hi Guys

 

did anyone ever get round to posting the details of a replacement aftermarket leisure Battery for the RX3 450h?

My second one in 5 years has just died (original spec panasonic).  Almost fried my CTEK charger trying to recover it to no avail. I'm having a hard time sourcing a replacement due to one problem.....size!

The original has no wriggle room in the battery7 holder and measures 220 long by 180 wide by 200 tall (mm).  I cannot for the life of me find a replacement to those dimensions, although there are plenty of higher spec batteries than OEM at half the cost.

I'd be very grateful if any of you has a make and model that would fit.

 

Thanks

 

Paul

[Herbie]

58 minutes ago, GSLV6 said:

My second one in 5 years has just died (original spec panasonic). 

There is a topic in which one or two are mentioned but, of course, I can't find it now.

Can you not get this one replaced under warranty?

[GSLV6]

unfortunately not...at least I think not as it's two years old.

[Herbie]

3 minutes ago, GSLV6 said:

unfortunately not...at least I think not as it's two years old.

Batteries should be guaranteed for more than two years. My last Varta (I think it was) had a 5-year warranty.

[GSLV6]

I seem to remember Lexus service saying that the warranty only covers it for 2 years Herbie.  That being the case it's either find an aftermarket replacement for half the price or stump up £220 for a Panasonic.

[steveledzep]

This is the one I bought Paul.  It's slightly shorter than the undertray but the width is just fine.  I had to pack the bracing bar by about 10mm because this Battery is not quite as high as the original.

It has worked faultlessly since fitting in January and my power tailgate has started working again.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254122603753

[GSLV6]

Fantastic Steve, thanks.   Did you disconnect the old one without using the jump lead trick to keep your car settings first or just swap it over?

[steveledzep]

No, I didn't maintain connection, just swapped them over.  The failed Battery had lost its charge on a few occasions.  I bought a smart charger for future use and got one with flying leads that are permanently attached to the Battery with a connection socket magically protruding from the boot floor.  Saves dismantling everything when maintaining the Battery.

[Barry14UK]

7 hours ago, steveledzep said:

This is the one I bought Paul.  It's slightly shorter than the undertray but the width is just fine.  I had to pack the bracing bar by about 10mm because this battery is not quite as high as the original.

It has worked faultlessly since fitting in January and my power tailgate has started working again.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254122603753

The Panasonic Battery has a flat top enabling the earth lead to be brought back over the top using the Lexus strap to the earthing point at the rear of the car.  The Hankook Battery you purchased has it's negative terminal  below the top of the Battery in a pocket.  I would be interested to know whether you used an alternative earthing point in front of the Battery, as re-routing out of the pocket sideways looks like you might obstruct the tyre on the spare wheel.  I did work out another way to do this but but maybe it's not necessary.

Avoiding the spare tyre with the earth lead is even more critical if you fit the next larger size in this battery range, 027 size, which I would like to do. It's 242mm long and should just fit in my tray-must check precisely as will be a tight fit.  At 60Ah it's about 20% up on the Panasonic one or the Hankook you fitted. 

 

 

  

[GSLV6]

That's a good point Barry.  The thing to be aware of if going larger than 220 in Battery length is that whilst it may fit within the well base, it (at least on mine) would not appear to fit in the base upstand, designed to retain the Battery from sliding.  It would sit on top of that which isn't a great idea as it places a lot of stress on the Battery base.   I have a cunning solution though....simply pack the inside using an equivalent thickness of MDF board cut to fit.  The metal strap will secure the Battery well enough on it's own.  That, or the upstand could easily enough fall prey to a grinder! 

 

This upstand is why we all struggle to find one with a large enough AH rating.  Why they picked a weedy 51AH is beyond me as this necessarily involves a greater number of deep discharge cycles which is primarily responsible for the relatively short life of these batteries.  Most are rated for between 400 and 500 deep cycles, hence the need to use them regularly or charge them when not in use.  I would prefer at least a 70Ah as this would significantly improve reliability by extending life but the well is simply too small.

 

[steveledzep]

4 hours ago, Barry14UK said:

The Panasonic battery has a flat top enabling the earth lead to be brought back over the top using the Lexus strap to the earthing point at the rear of the car.  The Hankook battery you purchased has it's negative terminal  below the top of the battery in a pocket.  I would be interested to know whether you used an alternative earthing point in front of the battery, as re-routing out of the pocket sideways looks like you might obstruct the tyre on the spare wheel.  I did work out another way to do this but but maybe it's not necessary.

Avoiding the spare tyre with the earth lead is even more critical if you fit the next larger size in this battery range, 027 size, which I would like to do. It's 242mm long and should just fit in my tray-must check precisely as will be a tight fit.  At 60Ah it's about 20% up on the Panasonic one or the Hankook you fitted. 

 

 

  

No re-routing necessary, just attached the -ve to the post.

[Herbie]

5 hours ago, GSLV6 said:

is that whilst it may fit within the well base, it (at least on mine) would not appear to fit in the base upstand,

Is that a fancy way of saying 'the lip around the edge'?

I haven't got a 3RX anymore so I can't easily check.

[GSLV6]

Lol!  Yes.  The lip around the edge thingy...

[Barry14UK]

As some of you folks may recall, I did quite a bit of research on an alternative 12v Pan Battery on the 3series RX. Unfortunately other factors including an impending operation have meant that I have not yet come up with anything I would definitely suggest without  proving it.  However, there is one thing I can say is that the tray that sits on the underside can be moved along when the Battery is out.  It's very thin and as far as I can see serves no purpose other than to contain any spill which is unlikely anyway with modern batteries.  Furthermore, the lip is very small to afford much protection. The floorpan takes the transmitted weight.  In fact some people dispense with this drip tray which looks like thin plastic with bent up edges.  I would not use any type of chipboard to jack up the Battery, particularly with these stories of water swishing around which would cause it to swell.  I have found that you can buy kitchen cutting boards made of appropriate acid resistant plastic which I would cut down to size and use in preference.  These come in different thickness so one or two would also serve to make more space for the greater length of the Battery which is limited by the angle at one end.   The 60amp Battery I alluded to has holding down protrusions at the bottom which are not necessary and could also be ground back at each end to save another 5mm in total in need  but would almost certainly invalidate your guarantee.  I believe I have found a Battery terminal clamp onto which you can screw another terminal post on top of it.  So in effect you have a negative terminal post that has been raised to clear the Battery pocket and the existing negative strap can come back over the Battery just like on the pan original.  This avoids coming out sideways which impinges on the spare tyre. This is the type of clamp where you can either fit an alternative ended negative strap to it or screw on a terminal post and fit the original. https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/negative-vertical-m8-stud-and-nut.html. 

Screw on type posts https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174317770485?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=174317770485&targetid=1140163974649&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=1007170&poi=&campaignid=12125451326&mkgroupid=117045675099&rlsatarget=aud-381667280803:pla-1140163974649&abcId=9300480&merchantid=263025930&gclid=EAIaIQobChMItfLTj9nR8AIVvBAGAB2NywodEAQYByABEgIHm_D_BwE

I will revert to the possibility of fitting an even bigger Battery which would involve cutting and welding but I need to remove underside covers to consider whether this is viable, so will come back on this one when circumstances permit. 

 

[Superduner]

Quite often the "protrusions" around the base of the Battery are only clipped on and can easily be removed.

[Barry14UK]

9 hours ago, Superduner said:

Quite often the "protrusions" around the base of the battery are only clipped on and can easily be removed.

I was unaware of that.  I have just checked a spare AC Delco Battery from another car and found the protrusions are part of the casing albeit in egg crate type construction so could easily be cut if it made the difference between being able to fit or not.  I will check this out on the 027 AGM when next in Halfords.  They give a 5 year warranty on their version and this is discounted if you have Gold Membership here.  This is the one I have in mind and a good reason for using them is that if you do have a problem there are many branches where you could return it and get a replacement.  I understand  that this Halfords Battery is made by Yuasa and is their YBX 9027.  The two batteries are shown in these links, the only difference I can see being that the Halfords one is shown as 243mm long, whereas the Yuasa one is shown as 242mm long so a paper error spec.  Also it should be 640 A on the Battery shop description, so one error each!

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/batteries/car-batteries/halfords-agm027-start-stop-car-battery-5-year-guarantee-255870.html

https://www.thebatteryshop.co.uk/yuasa-12v-60ah-680a-agm-stop-start-plus-battery-ybx9027-027agm-8897-p.asp

Incidentally, Varta and some other manufacturers also do this size so if it can work it would be a ubiquitous option.  However, before recommending it, I must check the compartment is definitely long enough and whether the spare wheel has to be moved over slightly to get adequate clearance.  It's definitely worth investigating though due to the extra capacity, lower price, and wider availability it would provide. 

 

[Superduner]

On my old Navara, the Battery clamp actually used the "lip" to hold the Battery.

[GSLV6]

On my RX3, the lip is not plastic, it appears to be metal, body coloured (in my case silver) and whilst I cannot see if it is spot welded on, it most likely is so I'm guessing it is not removable but I will find out when I remove the Battery.  I wouldn't worry about using a timber spacer because there is no likelihood of water "swishing around" LoL!  It's dry as a bone in that well and unless there is a serious water leak, in which case I have more to be concerned with than retrieving a timber spacer, I wouldn't hesitate to use a suitable piece of wbP ply sheet of which I have some readily available.  The alternative is to pay around £13 for an A4 sized 10mm thick acrylic sheet, cut to size and use that which is arguably a better solution.

Thanks for the links Barry, those post extenders are a useful solution and inexpensive.

[GSLV6]

1 hour ago, GSLV6 said:

On my RX3, the lip is not plastic, it appears to be metal, body coloured (in my case silver) and whilst I cannot see if it is spot welded on, it most likely is so I'm guessing it is not removable but I will find out when I remove the battery.  I wouldn't worry about using a timber spacer because there is no likelihood of water "swishing around" LoL!  It's dry as a bone in that well and unless there is a serious water leak, in which case I have more to be concerned with than retrieving a timber spacer, I wouldn't hesitate to use a suitable piece of wbP ply sheet of which I have some readily available.  The alternative is to pay around £13 for an A4 sized 10mm thick acrylic sheet, cut to size and use that which is arguably a better solution.

Thanks for the links Barry, those post extenders are a useful solution and inexpensive.

Edit.  Mea culpa...while my fuzzy memory thought it was a silver metal base, it is indeed black plastic!  I'll blame the confusion on my head cold!

I did measure the flat area of the well and it definitely won't take anything wider than 225mm if you remove the plastic base.  Max Battery dimensions without chopping things up is about 225mm x 200 (it might just squeeze in a 200 wide rather than 180 wide one) by 200 tall.  Any taller and you'll clash with the ribbed underside of the Battery cover but if you dispense with that cover you can get a 210mm height Battery in.  Not recommended though as that cover is there for a reason.

I just can't see therefore how you can get a 60AH to fit without chopping things about unless it falls within those space constraints.  I've yet to see the details from anyone who has succeeded.

 

[GSLV6]

 

Great news....Lexus have agreed to replace the Battery free of charge even though it is just I think outside of warranty period.  Now that's customer service 😃

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, GSLV6 said:

 

Great news....Lexus have agreed to replace the battery free of charge even though it is just I think outside of warranty period.  Now that's customer service 😃

That's a good outcome, excellent.

On the other hand, thinking of 'reasonable expectations' and how it fits in with Sale of Goods Act or whatever, is two years really all we can expect from a car Battery these days? Batteries were lasting longer than that 15 years ago.

[stringbender]

13 minutes ago, Herbie said:

 

 Batteries were lasting longer than that 15 years ago.

My Battery was well over 14 years old when I sold my 2005 RX. Is the Mk4 going to have this same issue ? If so, it seems pretty poor.

[Barry14UK]

2 hours ago, GSLV6 said:

 

Great news....Lexus have agreed to replace the battery free of charge even though it is just I think outside of warranty period.  Now that's customer service 😃

Good news, so you are OK.  Now academic in your case but for any body else who is interested, either your Battery compartment is different to mine or we are using different measuring tools.  I have just taken the opportunity of a break in the rain to make up a packing piece which gives 24.6mm thickness measured on my calliper. I notched this so it would go round the Battery vent so it lay flat against the vertical face of the Battery, in effect extending it from the agreed 220 to 244.6mm and it just made it to the bottom of the compartment.  This was after omitting the black plastic tray and sliding the Battery tight to a clip that holds a cable.  Also, you need to jack up the Battery with a packer under it.  Due to the shape of the Battery compartment, every mm the Battery is raised it will provide more clearance at the end of the Battery.  So I am confident that the 027 Battery will fit without modification, although you lose the thin pretty feeble Battery tray.  I was not able to check clearance between where the Battery would extend and the spare wheel, due to rain interrupting play, but it does seem the spare will need to be moved  slightly forward and sideways so that would mean moving over the strip and nut by which the wheel is secured with a hand tightened bolt.  So almost there!!