Hi and Help 😀

[Pebisit]

Hi to everyone, sorry to jump straight in with a question having just joined, but could really do with a bit of advice

Anyhow, looking to replace one of my cars, budgets not really an issue but I’m currently looking at cars between 50-60k

apologues again, but I’m a long time German fanboy, mostly BMWs, M cars and preferably Alpinas. I need a coupe for work use, sold my Allpina B3S biturbo 3 years back as I felt the need to go back to my youth and indulge myself in the latest Focus RS. Anyhow, the mrs won’t drive it as it’s a manual and a bit industrial 😂😂😂 and unfortunately, I need to borrow her merc GLE quite often so she needs to be happy with the RS replacement too ( she won’t drive any of my other cars 😡😡 )

So, I’ve looked all over for a replacement, can’t find an Alpina B4S, thought about an M4 CS but again, it’s probably a bit much for the mrs and probably for me as a daily, won’t have the merc or an rs5 and then went scanning autotrader and found a new RC F for sale at the right money. And it’s a proper auto, and I can get a sunroof and all the toys and even better, it’s. V8

but then I’ve looked at the numbers sold, and I can’t work out why people don’t buy them. I do like something a bit different so it sort of appeals but I’m also concerned that it may be that the cars just not good. Saying that, reviews seem to think it’s a really good road car which is what I’m after, albeit something I can also have fun in. And then there’s the issue of can you sell them on after a few years

Any advice would be really, really appreciated

once again, apologies for just jumping in but 8m off to see a Lexus dealer next week and I wanted some real world experience not salesman patter

thanks in advance 

Phil

[Linas.P]

19 minutes ago, Pebisit said:

but then I’ve looked at the numbers sold, and I can’t work out why people don’t buy them. I do like something a bit different so it sort of appeals but I’m also concerned that it may be that the cars just not good.

Overall, the reason why people don't buy them are quite nuanced - but it is simply not well known or appreciated brand in UK. In US sometimes they even outsold BMW etc (German cars).

I could point out to some other thing which may contribute e.g. there are no progression in model line-up, the cars are comparably expensive (in US RC-F cost closer to M440i rather than M4), RC-F is not as focused car as say M4 (just not as fast on track), market for these cars just isn't there so selling them privately is very difficult (resale issues) ... and many more. 

BUT it is not because it is bad car! As well it seems you could fit LC500 in your budget, so you may want to consider that as well.

[Shahpor]

47 minutes ago, Pebisit said:

budgets not really an issue

Not often you hear that 🙂

As Linas says, good cars but a little off the beaten path for most people.  Resale probably won't be as easy as say a BMW, but someone will eventually recognise its value and buy it from you.

Again, as Linas mentioned, if I were in your position I would be seriously tempted by an LC500.

[Linas.P]

One thing to consider is - do you want sport car or do you want just fast coupe. LC500 is not a sports car, it is GT car, it is just as fast as RC-F, but when it comes to build quality and attention to the detail it is in league of it's own. As well has the same V8, but arguably sounds even better and overall it fits it's intended purpose perfectly.

RC-F on the other hand is more compromised "sports car wanabe", it was targeted and competing M4, but realistically it is not as focused, it is rather more luxurious and actually as well half GT car. Which slightly compromises it - so it isn't as good sports car as M4, but it isn't as good GT as LC... and finally it is priced as coupe version of GS, but realistically it is coupe version of IS (all interior, trim etc is taken right out of IS). So buying it new... I don't know, the value is not amazing... but buying it used absolutely makes sense as value adjust well in the market and it becomes one of the best value for money performance cars (especially considering reliability and running costs).

So why BMW M4 sell so much more - it was targeted to specific purpose and it does it well, whereas RC-F kind of wanted to cover all the bases, but isn't leader in any of them.

So I would say if you concerned about lap times, RC-F isn't as good as M4. If you just want fast coupe which can occasionally do 3 laps on the track - RC-F is much better than M4 and it is much more friendly for daily driving, better equipped more comfortable and a lot more dependable. Finally, if you just want fast coupe from premium brand - LC500 is pretty much best car there is, but you can't realistically track it.

[Las Palmas]

Hi Phil,

From you post it is not easy to know what you are really looking for.

A luxury coupe: Lexus have some great, well-built and extremely comfortable cars.

A sports car: Lexus do not make sports cars.

Have had sports cars. They are noisy and not comfortable; no rubber bushings: metal on metal. My wife disliked them.

Have passed the time when wanted to come fast from one place to another, now comfort and reliability is what we need.

Have had BMW cars. Never loved one of them.

Have had MB cars. The 300SEL 6.3 was comfortable, air suspension fabulous at the time, but a stupidly large car that it is impossible to find a parking place for. Smart Roadster Coupé with paddle shift was the closest to an MB factory built I liked. My mother loved the 190SL though and called it Andy Capp.

Lexus cars are not bad in any way except for infotainment and navigation systems in them.

The coming Genesis looks interesting and with the built quality of Hyundai they could be the next reliability top.

[B1RMA]

I think if you test drive one you'll know if it appeals to you. Just a tip on driving the car on the test drive which I think is important, once warmed up set it into Sport or Sport+ and move the 'gear' lever into manual. You'll find the sport adjustment in the central tunnel it's a round dial. You can then use the paddles to change gear I think it's fair to say most RCF owners use this and I find it very satisfying to play with. 

In standard form the cars sound far too castrated and you need to fit an aftermarket exhaust to draw out the proper sound of the V8.

For your budget you'll be looking at AVS equipped cars which again in my opinion have the choice of very comfortable setting or stiffer if you prefer. I drove both and paid the extra for a later car.

[Pebisit]

Wow, thanks everyone, some really helpful information

I guess my problem is that I can’t quite make the step to luxo barge, it’s like I’m admitting I’m too old 😂😂😂 but neither do I want a track car, I want a car that I can use daily in most conditions with a decent auto gearbox that’s comfortable but also something I can have some fun with on the right day, which my Alpinas have always been good at, they’re very much a better fast road car than an  M car and I’m guessing the RC F is similar based on what you’ve all said. 

that being said maybe I should also look at the LC, I’m guessing that Lexus’s versions of an 8 series??

there’s a bit of me that also likes the idea of a car that no one really knows anything about unless you’re a proper petrol,head, again, much like an Alpina. You buy an M car and all you ever get is loads of kids wanting to race you and hassling you, I’m a bit past all that.

My mrs won’t drive a Porsche, Aston, or anything like that. I was lucky enough to have a 355 in 2005 which I had for 3 years and she never even sat in the passenger seat, let alone drive it. So , again, there’s not many cars that tick all the boxes, the RC F seems to be one. Is the LC a lot bigger than the RC F??

on the cost front, for a new RC F, I can get a new one with a good spec for £55k (they’re being heavily discounted at the moment) , if it’s worth £30k in 5 years with 40k miles on it, that’s £5k depreciation a year which is pretty good. And I’m guessing they wont be around much longer either 

im off to see an RC on Thursday but he doesn’t have an F in. I’ll see if he has an LC too

oh and thanks again, really appreciate the help, some really good info and lots to think about 👏👏

 

[B1RMA]

Believe it or not before I bought the RCF I had a CL65 AMG that's the V12 twin turbo Luxo Barge and a highly modified VX220 Turbo for track days, between the two it satisfied all my needs. 

Before the RCF I tried a very special V8 BMW M3 it was a factory order special with all sorts of extras, it was very nice and I loved the way it seemed to shrink around you, but after driving it for 10 minutes I got the overwhelming feeling that this car needed to be driven fast all the time. No real comfort mode as such, which is where the RCF came in. On the test drive I liked the fact you could rev it out (not sure the salesman did though) but then you could put it in comfort mode with a decent autobox and get a decent quiet comfortable car.

I wouldn't personally wouldn't bother with an RC and wait and try a full fat RCF.  The LC is great but it is a big car.

[Malc]

1 hour ago, B1RMA said:

In standard form the cars sound far too castrated and you need to fit an aftermarket exhaust to draw out the proper sound of the V8.

just what is the " proper " sound of a V8 ?

32 years ago Lexus produced one of the very best cars available at that time .....  the Ls400 .... a V8 with the sound and roar of sheep munching grass at 200 mtrs 

Malc

[B1RMA]

13 minutes ago, Malc said:

just what is the " proper " sound of a V8 ?

32 years ago Lexus produced one of the very best cars available at that time .....  the Ls400 .... a V8 with the sound and roar of sheep munching grass at 200 mtrs 

Malc

To me as opposed to sheep munching the bark/roar of an RCF with either a Quicksilver or GT Haus exhaust is what I consider the sound of a V8, most AMG V8's seem to sound about right straight out of the factory, even with the addition of turbo's the V8 AMG engine sounds guttural which may not appeal to all I guess. The RCF just doesn't sound very good with it's standard exhaust in my opinion.

[hockeyedwards]

51 minutes ago, B1RMA said:

GT Haus exhaust

*Rubs hands together* haha!

1 hour ago, Pebisit said:

I can have some fun with on the right day

My only comment would be (and it may be to your taste), you have to sometimes really push the engine hard to get 'fun' out of it? 4k+ revs to really get the juices flowing!

1 hour ago, B1RMA said:

I liked the fact you could rev it out (not sure the salesman did though) but then you could put it in comfort mode with a decent autobox and get a decent quiet comfortable car.

Amen!

[Kevin Williams]

17 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

Hi Phil,

 

From you post it is not easy to know what you are really looking for.

 

A luxury coupe: Lexus have some great, well-built and extremely comfortable cars.

 

A sports car: Lexus do not make sports cars.

 

Have had sports cars. They are noisy and not comfortable; no rubber bushings: metal on metal. My wife disliked them.

 

Have passed the time when wanted to come fast from one place to another, now comfort and reliability is what we need.

 

Have had BMW cars. Never loved one of them.

 

Have had MB cars. The 300SEL 6.3 was comfortable, air suspension fabulous at the time, but a stupidly large car that it is impossible to find a parking place for. Smart Roadster Coupé with paddle shift was the closest to an MB factory built I liked. My mother loved the 190SL though and called it Andy Capp.

 

Lexus cars are not bad in any way except for infotainment and navigation systems in them.

 

The coming Genesis looks interesting and with the built quality of Hyundai they could be the next reliability top.

 

I agree, the coming Genesis looks interesting, and with the build quality of Hyundai they could be very reliable.

I am told that the Ioniq 5 that I have ordered, should be delivered in Sept/Oct.

The Genesis GV 70 SUV reviews look good. Hopefully they will also do it in fully electric... 

[Las Palmas]

1 hour ago, Kevin Williams said:

Hopefully they will also do it in fully electric... 

As long as electricity is made the way it is today the real difference between hybrid and full electric is very little if at all existing.

Unfortunately, our politicians have little to no courage to change things they cannot see results from here and now - meaning they want to be patted on the back right now and care little about later.

[Linas.P]

18 hours ago, Pebisit said:

which my Alpinas have always been good at, they’re very much a better fast road car than an  M car and I’m guessing the RC F is similar based on what you’ve all said. 

I think that is great comparison - if you take simple 3/4series coupe then there are almost two separate ways to go - if you want focused sports car then M3/M4 will be it,  but if you just want that power and speed, but without feeling uncomfortable than there is an Alpina version of the same car. Yes Alpina is not as focused, it is not track car, but it is still fast and you get better materials, attention to the details, exclusivity etc. I think Lexus RC-F could be seen as attempt to make a car which is both Alpina B4S and BMW M4, and they stand somewhere between - "faster" (they are about the same, but I guess V8 will make it feel "faster") than B4S, more comfortable than M4.

LC is roughly comparable to 8-Series ... in price I guess, but car are nothing alike. BMW 8-Series is fast car and it is relatively practical (big boot, folding seats) roomy even in the back, but as well it feel exactly the same as say BMW 4 series - it does not feel special at all, just larger and more powerful version of 4-Series. Lexus LC is in another league - you need to try it see it, I cannot compare quality to anything else on the road (and I mean anything), it is not the fastest, it is not very practical, but it feels very special to drive and just be inside. For example that any, even most expensive car and you can still find some cheap plastic somewhere or panel which feels a little bit empty inside, not in LC - it just feels solid throughout. Porsche 911 maybe is the closest car in terms of built quality, especially recently it was great, but that is the only car which I think is even close. 

[Kevin Williams]

Hello Phil, Like yourself, I have had several different cars. Roger Young, my local Range Rover and Jaguar Dealer, has said to me a couple of times, my middle name should be depreciation…! And I still deal with him…

My thoughts are very similar to Linas.

The Lexus LC 500 Coupe Club’s Topic, apple Car Play, mentions some of the cars that I have had… I also had an Alpina XD3…. I gave them their reg back…!

The LC 500 does feel very special for a number of reasons. You definitely need to try one, and have a good look around it…

I had a Coupe, before my Convertible, both great cars…

Go on, spoil yourself, and also spoil your Mrs…!

[Martin F]

On 5/15/2021 at 6:39 PM, B1RMA said:

I wouldn't personally wouldn't bother with an RC and wait and try a full fat RCF.  

Agreed your wasting your time looking at an RC considering your car history.

[Linas.P]

Yes indeed... If RC350 would be sold in UK then maybe, but even then RC350 is not Alpina. Sadly, in UK we don't get that - it is only RC200t which is slow (~BMW 420i - 7.5s) or RC300h which is even slower (8.4s), so they not even in ballpark and importantly they sound dull as ****.

[scudney]

Here we go again let's see how long before this thread takes on  different dimension lol 😆 

[Linas.P]

I think considering the OP needs and perspective, it shouldn't take any other dimension, but you sadly right - people don't care about question raised or perspective of it, they look at it from their perspective and get offended because for them it is "plenty fast enough" or "even 13s will do if you drive as you should on public road". By this logic no car with more than 150hp would ever exist or would be needed.  

[Spacewagon52]

Oh dear!

[scudney]

😮😭

[C.B]

I would echo the above in that I dont think its worth driving a non F RC if you are only going to be interested in the F. This is not a slight on the standard RC and I completely get that most people think 400+ BHP on a road car is insane, most of my family included. It just that the car feels very different to drive, it would be wrong to describe it as the same car with a bigger engine. This is the same for a 320d vs an M3, a4 vs rs4 etc these cars are compromised by the nature of trying to be a sports car and its those compromises you need to experience.

[Linas.P]

15 minutes ago, C.B said:

 I completely get that most people think 400+ BHP on a road car is insane

But then again - those cars are not made for "most people", they are made for the few who appreciate and deserves them. RC200t/300h handles relatively well, but overall experience is just not the same... and having 400+ HP car is about experience. Sure one can sit on motorway at 70MPH in all 3 cars and there will be no major difference (which is great about RC-F - you don't need to compromise on daily comfort to have 400HP), but the car is not just about sitting in the traffic or cruising at slow speeds, and only few will appreciate why this different matters. Most people wont appreciate, because for most people car is just a box to go from "A to B" and in that case having 400HP is truly insane.

[BillNick]

If you want the fun and excitement close to the German's and budget is no issue, I would go for the RC-F Track Edition. Check it out...

I love my RC-F, but I have been with Lexus for 14 years (3rd car) and I enjoy the mix of luxury with v8.

I am told by M4 and AMG owners that my RC-F feels and drives with much more luxury, but the Germans will always beat you on track.

[Pebisit]

Thanks again all, more great comments

I’m not actually considering a normal RC, it’s just that’s all the dealer has, so I thought I’d check out the basics, interior, overall size, etc, etc before I get him to find me an RC F to look at, these cars are like Alpinas, theres next to none around. If I do buy the RC F, it’ll be new I think, it’s hard enough finding a car, let alone the right car 😂😂😂 And I do have a certain spec in mind

what the dealer does have though is an LC, so I’ve now asked him if I can look at one of those too when I go Thursday 

although, I have to say the more I find out about the RC F, the more it appeals. The V8, the overtly sportiness to have some fun on the B roads while also having the ability to munch miles too on a day to day basis, the relative rarity too, it ticks all the boxes. Plus I can spec a sunroof which I do really like in my cars. For a road car, which I will never take on a track, it seems perfect. Plus, you’re getting the Lexus legendary reliability, I did suffer with the Alpina with a few niggles when I had it so something that just works will make a pleasant change

And lastly, reading between the lines it seems that these won’t be available much longer. Not only that, but I can’t see a replacement coming along, so I guess now or never for a N/A V8 weapon like this

thanks again lol 👏👏👏