Car Insurance Companies

[Phil xxkr]

On 5/6/2021 at 5:03 PM, dman2004 said:

It's that time of year, looking for a better price on insurance. Who would you recommend?

Has anyone heard of or have any experience with "Quotemehappy.com"? 

This is a trading name for Aviva. I went through the usual comparative sites and found this to be the most competitive this particular time. Fact is that you have to put the time in if you want to save cash🤔

[Andy B]

The MoneySavingExpert website (Financial expert Martin Lewis' site) suggests that the optimum time to start looking around for car insurance quotes is 3 weeks before your renewal date. Supposedly it works because insurers' risk tables show those who get new insurers' quotes earlier are a lower risk.

I'll definitely put this to the test next time around.

[Linas.P]

Yes I noticed that as well. If you ever try to insure in less than a week, you will get like double to the price compared to 2-3 weeks later. Bloody insurance companies trying to create statistics even where there isn't any to be made. 

[scott-o]

I've just insured mine for £340 cheaper than my renewal price by using the comparison websites. Ended up paying £410 with Esure, with the exhaust declared. I got a £20 Halfords voucher redeemed from the website too when I took it out, which I've spent on some cleaning bits that I was going to buy anyway. I think that's the first time my insurance has been so cheap on anything for years! 

[Linas.P]

Yeah, apparently insurance dropped a lot this year due to much less accidents during covid. As far as I hate insurance companies my renewal price would be 25% of what I pay generally. 2019 was £1400, 2020 was £1180 or something... checked last week what it would cost to insure... and it came back as £432!!!

[Neo_gsf]

9 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Yeah, apparently insurance dropped a lot this year due to much less accidents during covid. As far as I hate insurance companies my renewal price would be 25% of what I pay generally. 2019 was £1400, 2020 was £1180 or something... checked last week what it would cost to insure... and it came back as £432!!!

Is is almost worth you cancelling your existing insurance, getting a pro-rata refund and going with the new £432 quote for the next 12 months before it increases again

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, Neo_gsf said:

Is is almost worth you cancelling your existing insurance, getting a pro-rata refund and going with the new £432 quote for the next 12 months before it increases again

Almost indeed... I thought about that, but I am 7 month in and with all fees and charges I doubt I would get much back. Besides I would loose NCB for the current policy and quote was with assumption that I already got it i.e. as if my current policy ends at the end of the month.

And yes... by the time I have to insure again it may increase again, after lockdown people are driving like mad.

[wharfhouse]

I recently wrote to my MP about car insurance (having had the pleasure of renewing three car insurance policies for our family recently), namely the ridiculous charade each year with the current insurer regards renewal prices and the difficulties (barriers) they raise to cancelling the auto-renewal in a bid to lock people in.

My MP raised the issues with the Association of British Insurers and the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy and I received (through my MP) replies from both. The replies were quite detailed, but in a nutshell can be summarised as:

The FCA has proposed pricing changes which focus on the renewal price for customers being no greater than the price offered to new customers, which the industry is committed to implementing. Part of those proposals, which will come into effect in the end of 2021, is for insurers to make it easier for customers to cancel their auto-renewal, should they wish to do so.

We can only now wait and see if indeed the FCA has the teeth to make such changes stick...

[FTBBCVoodoo]

48 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

I recently wrote to my MP about car insurance (having had the pleasure of renewing three car insurance policies for our family recently), namely the ridiculous charade each year with the current insurer regards renewal prices and the difficulties (barriers) they raise to cancelling the auto-renewal in a bid to lock people in.

My MP raised the issues with the Association of British Insurers and the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy and I received (through my MP) replies from both. The replies were quite detailed, but in a nutshell can be summarised as:

The FCA has proposed pricing changes which focus on the renewal price for customers being no greater than the price offered to new customers, which the industry is committed to implementing. Part of those proposals, which will come into effect in the end of 2021, is for insurers to make it easier for customers to cancel their auto-renewal, should they wish to do so.

We can only now wait and see if indeed the FCA has the teeth to make such changes stick...

It is happening.  Members of my team are working on a project to implement this at the moment.  It's an FCA regulatory change so insurance companies have to respond.  It's not dissimilar to the gender neutral regulations where insurers couldn't charge more/less if you were male/female.

In theory, a renewal price should/will be the same as if you were a new customer.

That being said, I still don't auto renew mine even with a staff discount 😉

[wharfhouse]

22 minutes ago, FTBBCVoodoo said:

It is happening.  Members of my team are working on a project to implement this at the moment.  It's an FCA regulatory change so insurance companies have to respond.  It's not dissimilar to the gender neutral regulations where insurers couldn't charge more/less if you were male/female.

In theory, a renewal price should/will be the same as if you were a new customer.

That being said, I still don't auto renew mine even with a staff discount 😉

My issue with the auto renewal is that insurance companies have it set as on as a legal requirement and then having searched and found a better deal there is no easy way (in many cases) to cancel the auto renewal without telephoning the insurance company which meant waiting on hold for ages to to talk to a person and then being bombarded with a load of questions and/or the charade of reducing the price originally quoted on the renewal (in some cases by over a third). It took me a day to sort out three separate car policies with all of the above pain and hence in frustration I contacted my MP... 

[LenT]

42 minutes ago, FTBBCVoodoo said:

That being said, I still don't auto renew mine even with a staff discount 😉

That’s an interesting comment.

Are you concerned that you might unwittingly be committed to a higher premium, despite the discount?  Do you not get adequate prior notice of the renewal?

Obviously individuals and Insurers vary, but I don’t see the problem with auto renewal.  Or more precisely I’ve never had a problem with it.

Currently we have one car insured via Saga, with whom I negotiated a fixed price three year deal.  So that auto renews.  The Lexus Is through the AA and the opportunity to cancel the auto renewal is part of the renewal process.  However our annual dance is rather like this: The AA sends a renewal advice about three weeks ahead.  This is usually a few days after Saga has sent a new offer to attract the Lexus.

I ring the AA and ask: why is the renewal, say, £180 more than last year?  They reduce the premium.  I then point out that Saga is still more attractive.  They then match the Saga price.  This process has worked well for all involved for some years now!

I agree that it all rather depends on the auto renewal notification arriving before the date, rather than after.  But that has never happened so far.  Should I be incapacitated by injury, senility or death, then the car is at least insured, which would not be the case if the insurance was allowed to lapse.

I may have missed some obvious point, but I’m intrigued as to why you dislike auto renewal bearing in mind the security it offers as well as the opportunity to negotiate- or even cancel - the premium.

[FTBBCVoodoo]

21 minutes ago, LenT said:

That’s an interesting comment.

Are you concerned that you might unwittingly be committed to a higher premium, despite the discount?  Do you not get adequate prior notice of the renewal?

Obviously individuals and Insurers vary, but I don’t see the problem with auto renewal.  Or more precisely I’ve never had a problem with it.

Currently we have one car insured via Saga, with whom I negotiated a fixed price three year deal.  So that auto renews.  The Lexus Is through the AA and the opportunity to cancel the auto renewal is part of the renewal process.  However our annual dance is rather like this: The AA sends a renewal advice about three weeks ahead.  This is usually a few days after Saga has sent a new offer to attract the Lexus.

I ring the AA and ask: why is the renewal, say, £180 more than last year?  They reduce the premium.  I then point out that Saga is still more attractive.  They then match the Saga price.  This process has worked well for all involved for some years now!

I agree that it all rather depends on the auto renewal notification arriving before the date, rather than after.  But that has never happened so far.  Should I be incapacitated by injury, senility or death, then the car is at least insured, which would not be the case if the insurance was allowed to lapse.

I may have missed some obvious point, but I’m intrigued as to why you dislike auto renewal bearing in mind the security it offers as well as the opportunity to negotiate- or even cancel - the premium.

They always ask if I want auto renewal on but I say no.  I don't have autorenewal set purely because I will still check with on comparison sites and also via Quidco in case the cashback sweetens a deal further.

I get more than enough notification for renewal, I just do a bit of research and then invariably call the staff shop and renew.  We have a multicar policy and also house insurance with same company so you end up with a 25% discount on the cheaper of the two policies as well 🙂

At present I have a 2018 FK8 Civic Type R & the wife has a 2011 Alfa Giulietta 1.4 Turbo.

Type R is £170 with £250 compulsory excess.  Giulietta is £200 with £250 excess.  So £370 per year with protected no claims bonus.

I am 41, she is 40.

Zero points and max no claims

Both cars insured for business, commuting and pleasure (not sure dogging is included 😉 )

12000 miles per year (although I did about 5000 in 12 months and the wife about 3000 due to lockdown and working from home for over a year now)

Both cars kept on driveway overnight.

Staff discount obviously makes a huge difference although I should imagine the Civic is so much cheaper to insure because if I prang it, they only need to buy off white Lego pieces to fix it and a couple of pieces of Gorilla Glue.

Oh...  and aware I am on a Lexus Forum while owning a Honda...  I am keeping an eye on the forum as my old ISF is about to be put up for sale so I am intrigued to see if/when it turns up for sale and at what price 😉

 

[LenT]

40 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

My issue with the auto renewal is that insurance companies have it set as on as a legal requirement and then having searched and found a better deal there is no easy way (in many cases) to cancel the auto renewal without telephoning the insurance company which meant waiting on hold for ages to to talk to a person and then being bombarded with a load of questions and/or the charade of reducing the price originally quoted on the renewal (in some cases by over a third). It took me a day to sort out three separate car policies with all of the above pain and hence in frustration I contacted my MP... 

I didn’t see your post, Phil, until after I’d posted mine.  But clearly our experiences are different.  For one thing our policies are staggered so they are months apart.  As for your problems with reducing the price, I would have thought that many of the processes you cite would be part of any negotiations with potential new Insurers anyway.  Plus of course you would have to resubmit information that your current Insurers already hold.   And if you have a significant NCD, then you may lose part of that.  So I don’t quite see how you would save in that respect anyway.

If you’re happy to invest your time successfully seeking a better policy and/or premium, then that’s a result anyway!

[LenT]

9 minutes ago, FTBBCVoodoo said:

They always ask if I want auto renewal on but I say no.  I don't have autorenewal set purely because I will still check with on comparison sites and also via Quidco in case the cashback sweetens a deal further.

I get more than enough notification for renewal, I just do a bit of research and then invariably call the staff shop and renew.  We have a multicar policy and also house insurance with same company so you end up with a 25% discount on the cheaper of the two policies as well 🙂

At present I have a 2018 FK8 Civic Type R & the wife has a 2011 Alfa Giulietta 1.4 Turbo.

Type R is £170 with £250 compulsory excess.  Giulietta is £200 with £250 excess.  So £370 per year with protected no claims bonus.

I am 41, she is 40.

Zero points and max no claims

Both cars insured for business, commuting and pleasure (not sure dogging is included 😉 )

12000 miles per year (although I did about 5000 in 12 months and the wife about 3000 due to lockdown and working from home for over a year now)

Both cars kept on driveway overnight.

Staff discount obviously makes a huge difference although I should imagine the Civic is so much cheaper to insure because if I prang it, they only need to buy off white Lego pieces to fix it and a couple of pieces of Gorilla Glue.

Oh...  and aware I am on a Lexus Forum while owning a Honda...  I am keeping an eye on the forum as my old ISF is about to be put up for sale so I am intrigued to see if/when it turns up for sale and at what price 😉

 

Thanks for the detailed reply, Lee.

So essentially we’re doing much the same, but you’re putting more effort into researching the market then I’m prepared to do.  And then we satisfy ourselves that we’re right to stay put for another year!

Fair enough.  😃

15 minutes ago, FTBBCVoodoo said:

Oh...  and aware I am on a Lexus Forum while owning a Honda... 

I can’t imagine anyone taking exception to that, Lee.  In my experience Honda owners are the epitome of thoughtful, intelligent and considerate motorists.

 

Mind you, I used to own a Prelude and an Accord…..

[-Error-]

I'll chuck my five pence into this.

For a couple of years I have used the same bargaining tactic with regards to insuring mine or family's vehicles all bar one, works every time.

I have a GT86 which since owned by me has been insured by Greenlight - they offer a very specific package catered for modified/track day cover - I have been very happy with them for many years.

With regards to a few other vehicles inc. my Lexus I spend a few hours ensuring I get the best deal:

• 1) Wait for renewal letter and laugh at the rate being doubled yet again.
• 2) Visit GoCompare and Confused, type in appropriate details and get a feel for the quotes, play about with the mileage or named drivers if you feel like it and have the ability to do so.
• 3) Call existing insurer, ask for an updated quote as they will always be happy to lower the price (don't tell them you've obtained other quotes), don't accept the renewal just yet.
• 4) Call other providers - AdrianFlux, Admiral & Hastings are a good start. Say you've shopped around and quote your lowest comparison site result (I always apply a 10-15% discount on top, that's my bargaining allowance). 
• 5) Don't stop until you've heard all the options. Some will offer better cover some will try and match your imaginary best result. 

Last month I've gone from £874 for my partner on her CT200h to £550 on her renewal. Went back to Admiral after a year with Hastings. Yes it's time consuming. But as a youngster it saved me forwarding my weekly payslips to these thieving corporations.

[wharfhouse]

2 hours ago, LenT said:

I didn’t see your post, Phil, until after I’d posted mine.  But clearly our experiences are different.  For one thing our policies are staggered so they are months apart.  As for your problems with reducing the price, I would have thought that many of the processes you cite would be part of any negotiations with potential new Insurers anyway.  Plus of course you would have to resubmit information that your current Insurers already hold.   And if you have a significant NCD, then you may lose part of that.  So I don’t quite see how you would save in that respect anyway.

If you’re happy to invest your time successfully seeking a better policy and/or premium, then that’s a result anyway!

Hi

I can see that different people may have different experiences, tactics and are willing to put in various amounts of time. From my perspective car insurance is a "distress purchase" – legally we must insure our cars to be on the road - we have no choice if we want to drive. So, for me sorting out car insurance is one of those jobs that has to be done but should not take any undue amount of time - and that is where my frustrations come in.

In my case, a few years ago I had a multi-car policy - it did help save overall at the time as my daughter’s premium was for a young drive and her premium was discounted being on a multicar policy with ours. However, as she built up her own NCD etc. I found that the multi-car policy was no cheaper than individual policies and often more! Hence why I am now sorting out the insurance on three cars all on the same day.

Notwithstanding, my process is to receive the renewal for each policy and then go onto a comparison site where I have all the necessary data for all cars/drivers stored (I go back year after year to the data and simply keep it updated for any changes) and run that to get new quotes. Invariably these are less than the renewal quotes, in some cases the same company is quoting cheaper than the renewal price I have received. For me, it is then a matter of selecting the quote I want (assuming it is better value for my circumstances than the renewal quote) and the data is sent from the comparison site and the insurance policy is put into place. That is all straightforward and reasonable.

However, I then have to cancel the auto renewal (or pay twice) and that is where the frustration really kicks in. I have no problem with auto renewal as it does ensure drivers do not lapse into not being insured by mistake. But, having made my decision to change provider I do not want to wait 20 or 30 minutes in a telephone queue to simply ask someone to cancel this. It should be a website click or automated telephone call (I know some are website clicks now but for many you still have to phone them to speak to someone). And then when I get through, I am bombarded with questions as they try and slice and dice a deal that is better than I have already found – I simply do not want all that hassle.

For me, car insurance should not involve market trader battering. They all claim to have detailed risk profiles (and we provide plenty of information to get a quote) for each individual and set a price from that. But then once you call them, they are happy to lop 20% or 30% off the price if you say you have been quoted cheaper elsewhere! So clearly all that risk profiling goes out of the window and we might as well just be buying it down at a market stall!

In the case of one of the renewals this year that I found much cheaper on a comparison site, when forced to call them to cancel the auto renewal the existing insurer lopped 30% off without much question (and we are talking reducing by over £250) but it was still more than I had renewed for already with a different provider! All just crazy!

[LenT]

1 hour ago, wharfhouse said:

Hi

I can see that different people may have different experiences, tactics and are willing to put in various amounts of time. From my perspective car insurance is a "distress purchase" – legally we must insure our cars to be on the road - we have no choice if we want to drive. So, for me sorting out car insurance is one of those jobs that has to be done but should not take any undue amount of time - and that is where my frustrations come in.

In my case, a few years ago I had a multi-car policy - it did help save overall at the time as my daughter’s premium was for a young drive and her premium was discounted being on a multicar policy with ours. However, as she built up her own NCD etc. I found that the multi-car policy was no cheaper than individual policies and often more! Hence why I am now sorting out the insurance on three cars all on the same day.

Notwithstanding, my process is to receive the renewal for each policy and then go onto a comparison site where I have all the necessary data for all cars/drivers stored (I go back year after year to the data and simply keep it updated for any changes) and run that to get new quotes. Invariably these are less than the renewal quotes, in some cases the same company is quoting cheaper than the renewal price I have received. For me, it is then a matter of selecting the quote I want (assuming it is better value for my circumstances than the renewal quote) and the data is sent from the comparison site and the insurance policy is put into place. That is all straightforward and reasonable.

However, I then have to cancel the auto renewal (or pay twice) and that is where the frustration really kicks in. I have no problem with auto renewal as it does ensure drivers do not lapse into not being insured by mistake. But, having made my decision to change provider I do not want to wait 20 or 30 minutes in a telephone queue to simply ask someone to cancel this. It should be a website click or automated telephone call (I know some are website clicks now but for many you still have to phone them to speak to someone). And then when I get through, I am bombarded with questions as they try and slice and dice a deal that is better than I have already found – I simply do not want all that hassle.

For me, car insurance should not involve market trader battering. They all claim to have detailed risk profiles (and we provide plenty of information to get a quote) for each individual and set a price from that. But then once you call them, they are happy to lop 20% or 30% off the price if you say you have been quoted cheaper elsewhere! So clearly all that risk profiling goes out of the window and we might as well just be buying it down at a market stall!

In the case of one of the renewals this year that I found much cheaper on a comparison site, when forced to call them to cancel the auto renewal the existing insurer lopped 30% off without much question (and we are talking reducing by over £250) but it was still more than I had renewed for already with a different provider! All just crazy!

Many thanks for your detailed reply, Phil.

Compared to your approach, mine seems almost embarrassingly casual!

The frustrations of which you speak are, of course, merely examples of a common marketing tactic - namely, inertia selling.  One of the reasons why Insurers often appear so willing to offer a discount at the first opportunity is that relatively few people make the effort to obtain one.  As I think you rightly identify, the introduction of the ‘hassle factor’ is also an element here.

But it’s not confined to insurance companies.  Over the last couple of days I’ve been engaged in returning a faulty product to amazon.  They like to give the impression that after 30 days it’s the manufacturer’s problem, which is not the case.  But I found I had to negotiate several hurdles before finding a real person to call me back.

From then on it took about three minutes to organise a replacement - which was delivered the next day!  So a good result, but sometimes you have to shout ‘til you’re blue in the teeth to get there!

It’s also a truism in marketing that retaining an existing customer is (usually) significantly more cost effective than recruiting a new one.  It’s a bold company that makes it easier for customers to leave!

[Linas.P]

6 hours ago, FTBBCVoodoo said:

more/less if you were male/female.

Yet they absolutely do that. Last year we checked insurance for my gf because she were looking to get driving license and she herself said it absolutely does not make sense and is openly discriminatory. Assuming she get's insurance on day one of her license with 0 years NCB and 0 years experience her insurance would have been £1590, mine with 15 years experience, 5 years NCB was £1400 at the time! And just to make sure it does not take into account some unknown information, we created 2 brand new clean e-mails entered identical generic details and the only difference was the age, the gender and the driving experience/NCB. 

So please stop with these lies ... the way insurance price is determined in UK is basically a miracle and nobody could explain and everything is secret and nobody scrutinises it, nor they could even if they wanted to. 

This whole not charging existing customers more than new customers is absolute non-sense. When you ask million unnecessary questions to give a quote, and it could generate billion different scores, then who is to tell whenever renewal price is fair, unfair or is it more or less than existing customer.

Even where example could be found it is very easy for insurance company just to say, that the price given was generated by algorithm from various (and unknown criteria) and thus the final price is not discriminatory, but simply based on "risk" which was calculated.

Same as insurance companies charge more for TP only vs. Comprehensive policy, more for keeping car in garage vs. keeping car on the street etc. That clearly makes no sense, but answer is always the same - it is algorithm and it is based on risk... we don't know why but if algorithm says to overcharge you 10 times over then what can we do?!

[NemesisUK]

9 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

we created 2 brand new clean e-mails entered identical generic details and the only difference was the age, the gender and the driving experience/NCB. 

 

Differing age, driving experience and NCB... So, hardly showing that it's gender that makes the difference!

[Linas.P]

3 minutes ago, LenT said:

Many thanks for your detailed reply, Phil.

Compared to your approach, mine seems almost embarrassingly casual!

The frustrations of which you speak are, of course, merely examples of a common marketing tactic - namely, inertia selling.  One of the reasons why Insurers often appear so willing to offer a discount at the first opportunity is that relatively few people make the effort to obtain one.  As I think you rightly identify, the introduction of the ‘hassle factor’ is also an element here.

But it’s not confined to insurance companies.  Over the last couple of days I’ve been engaged in returning a faulty product to Amazon.  They like to give the impression that after 30 days it’s the manufacturer’s problem, which is not the case.  But I found I had to negotiate several hurdles before finding a real person to call me back.

From then on it took about three minutes to organise a replacement - which was delivered the next day!  So a good result, but sometimes you have to shout ‘til you’re blue in the teeth to get there!

It’s also a truism in marketing that retaining an existing customer is (usually) significantly more cost effective than recruiting a new one.  It’s a bold company that makes it easier for customers to leave!

Very poor comparison... I am sure that whatever you bought on amazon was not mandatory by law and not buying it was not putting you at risk to have your car confiscated, or for up to 10 points and £3000 fine. By the way, after 30 days it is indeed manufacturers responsibility, but I found amazon accepting liability anyway in most cases. Sellers responsibility is limited to 14 days to issue refunds or replacements and customers have another 14 days to return the goods. amazon rounds this and adds another few weeks for returns, to their policy is exceedingly compliance and they already accept returns above and beyond what law requires them. 

You should not confuse manufacturer warranty, with returns and refunds policy - https://www.gov.uk/accepting-returns-and-giving-refunds.

Secondly, retaining customer may be important in free and fair market, when customer could leave for competitor, but insurance is neither free, nor fair. Insurance companies have "secret" databases which apparently are used to fight fraud.. but who can say what they used for. Can they be used to "price fixing"... sure... absolutely... why not? 

So as soon as you get your first cheapest quote from price comparison site... say £3000... that is it, that is more or less what you will have to pay. You can call to any other insurance company, they more or less going to give you the same price or more. That is because they know you cannot get it cheaper - and what can you do? It is legal requirement to have insurance if you want to drive. So you either pay this astronomical price, or you get yourself a weekly bus ticket.

[Linas.P]

Just now, NemesisUK said:

Differing age, driving experience and NCB... So, hardly showing that it's gender that makes the difference!

Exactly... 

15 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Even where example could be found it is very easy for insurance company just to say, that the price given was generated by algorithm from various (and unknown criteria) and thus the final price is not discriminatory, but simply based on "risk" which was calculated.

So basically, what we are saying here is that - 6 years younger, 15 years less experienced female with 5 years less NCB is safer driver.... and that makes sense to you?

Just for comparison... when I was her age, my insurance was ~£2800-£3600.... I mean "I am sure this is certainly not the gender which makes difference"... no no no... this is that mysterious algorithm which nobody could ever question...

[FTBBCVoodoo]

15 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Yet they absolutely do that. Last year we checked insurance for my gf because she were looking to get driving license and she herself said it absolutely does not make sense and is openly discriminatory. Assuming she get's insurance on day one of her license with 0 years NCB and 0 years experience her insurance would have been £1590, mine with 15 years experience, 5 years NCB was £1400 at the time! And just to make sure it does not take into account some unknown information, we created 2 brand new clean e-mails entered identical generic details and the only difference was the age, the gender and the driving experience/NCB. 

So please stop with these lies ... the way insurance price is determined in UK is basically a miracle and nobody could explain and everything is secret and nobody scrutinises it, nor they could even if they wanted to. 

This whole not charging existing customers more than new customers is absolute non-sense. When you ask million unnecessary questions to give a quote, and it could generate billion different scores, then who is to tell whenever renewal price is fair, unfair or is it more or less than existing customer.

Even where example could be found it is very easy for insurance company just to say, that the price given was generated by algorithm from various (and unknown criteria) and thus the final price is not discriminatory, but simply based on "risk" which was calculated.

Same as insurance companies charge more for TP only vs. Comprehensive policy, more for keeping car in garage vs. keeping car on the street etc. That clearly makes no sense, but answer is always the same - it is algorithm and it is based on risk... we don't know why but if algorithm says to overcharge you 10 times over then what can we do?!

I would love to explain how actuaries create prices based on risk profiles per individuals but you will accuse me of telling lies regardless.

Have a great evening

[Linas.P]

Just now, FTBBCVoodoo said:

I would love to explain how actuaries create prices based on risk profiles per individuals but you will accuse me of telling lies regardless.

Have a great evening

Just please...

3 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

So basically, what we are saying here is that - 6 years younger, 15 years less experienced female with 5 years less NCB is safer driver.... and that makes sense to you?

I am sure you would and I am sure I would say it is lies regardless... because it is.

Just to be clear here - I do not blame people who work for insurance companies, the job is a job... but when when you go beyond just saying "I work for insurance company and I know how it works" and into "yes the price is fair and we treating our customers fairly", that is when you put yourself into position of acting as a represented of the industry and thus becoming associated with the "crime" insurance industry is committing.

[wharfhouse]

23 minutes ago, LenT said:

Many thanks for your detailed reply, Phil.

Compared to your approach, mine seems almost embarrassingly casual!

The frustrations of which you speak are, of course, merely examples of a common marketing tactic - namely, inertia selling.  One of the reasons why Insurers often appear so willing to offer a discount at the first opportunity is that relatively few people make the effort to obtain one.  As I think you rightly identify, the introduction of the ‘hassle factor’ is also an element here.

But it’s not confined to insurance companies.  Over the last couple of days I’ve been engaged in returning a faulty product to Amazon.  They like to give the impression that after 30 days it’s the manufacturer’s problem, which is not the case.  But I found I had to negotiate several hurdles before finding a real person to call me back.

From then on it took about three minutes to organise a replacement - which was delivered the next day!  So a good result, but sometimes you have to shout ‘til you’re blue in the teeth to get there!

It’s also a truism in marketing that retaining an existing customer is (usually) significantly more cost effective than recruiting a new one.  It’s a bold company that makes it easier for customers to leave!

Yes inertia selling is very real across many industries and when it's markets for discretionary products I have more understanding but for insurance which claims to be based on known risks (and industries like other key utilities) I do take issue with it (and I'm a marketing consultant...!) - however can't see it changing significantly soon - we all just need to be on our guard and play them best we can off against each other! 

[wharfhouse]

9 minutes ago, FTBBCVoodoo said:

I would love to explain how actuaries create prices based on risk profiles per individuals but you will accuse me of telling lies regardless.

Have a great evening

But then why can insurance companies lop say 30% off a premium when you say you can get it cheaper elsewhere - if the risk profile is the risk profile then the premium is the premium?