Driving Licence Renewal

[true blue]

Hi oh dear a can of worms opened here ,I don't want to get too involved in this but I do have one question for Linas  where does he get his figures to. substantiate ' headlights on 24/7 make it much safer to drive on the continent ' apart from the fact that this is not proven ,for many years I was a motorcycle instructor for the local council and daytime /running headlights was always a bone of contention until they were made compulsory .The only proper documented tests to this theory I have seen  were carried out by 2 American states where the results showed an INCREASE in collisions with lights on .The conclusions were that knowing lights were on lulled riders into a false sense of security ,and if you are not paying attention and  looking you will not see ,lights or otherwise

Dave

 

[Malc]

59 minutes ago, steve2006 said:

all the other dragons have said they’ll take me out.

didn't see them sporting a sub machine gun 

now .................  Jersey gonna be kept in the dark ?  too many EVs there to be sustainable these days ?  the French need all their power for their EVs no doubt😁

Malc

[Linas.P]

Dave, you just jumped head down into massive can of worms... welcome!

I never said increased safety is fact and only used this as example to show how UK government decides on all directives before they are implemented in UK. In my personal opinion and based on my experience having headlights ON makes it easier to drive and that at least in theory should make it safer, but that was never the main point. So this is clearly an opinion - we can agree or disagree and I respect if other people have different views or opinions.

Likewise I think that photo card license is good thing, especially when this gives you access to drive in EU without need of international license. But again that is not the question on whenever it is good or bad, it was question whenever this is because of EU or UK own government to mandate it.

What is a fact, which is not subject to opinion or interpretation is that implementation of directives are down to individual EU states legislature. Meaning that mandating photo card driving license and not-mandating headlights or national identity card is down to UK government, not down to EU.

The specific statement which is in conflict with this fact is that people were forced to update their licenses "because of EU", whereas in reality this was decision of UK government and not EU. This is proven by precedence of UK government:

1. Implementing Directive 91/439/EEC and mandating it in UK for driving license
2. Not-implementing Directive 2008/89/EC and not mandating it in UK

 

 

[Sundance]

[doog442]

6 hours ago, Linas.P said:

EU as well have legislation that every car has to drive with headlights on 24/7, which is amazing idea and for this reason it is so much easier and safer to drive in Continental Europe compared to UK - you can clearly see all the cars from far away, because headlight makes cars many times more visible, especially dark grey ones in the gloomy November afternoon.

 

I think you're getting mixed up. The EU came out with a directive that all cars produced since 2011 should have daytime running lights fitted. There is however no legislation or law that headlights (or even DLR's) have to be used 24/7 unless under certain circumstances like bad visibility or the hours of darkness, thats for most EU countries and the UK.

In relation to road deaths, the UK is the second safest country in Europe behind Sweden, which is pleasing to know.   

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/uk-roads-revealed-to-be-second-safest-in-europe/

 

[The-Acre]

Excellent, I've just found another cure for insomnia!

[Phil xxkr]

11 hours ago, steve2006 said:

I passed my driving tests back in 1977 when it was just a case of driving/riding around a set route and performing various tasks while doing so at the required level of competence.

”I’m pleased to tell you that you have passed”

Upon passing, my pink provisional licence was then upgraded to a green full licence which cost a mere £5.00 and was valid until I reached the age of 70. Great value at less than 10p a year.

Moving on a few years and photo-card driving licences are introduced for which we have to pay for. Just a minute my green licence last me until I’m 70 that was the deal for my fiver.

”Dear DVLA about this new licence charge”

”No due to EU regulations you now require a photo card licence and have to pay for it unless you never move house until you are 70 when you can continue with your green paper licence”

OK admit defeat at this point and pay another £10.00 for the photo one.

Ten years later “Dear Driver your photocard driving licence is due to expire and requires renewing” Another £10.00.

Now just received another renewal at either £14.00 online or (work this one out) £21.50 which includes a £4.50 PO service charge at the Post Office.

With all the local DVLA offices now closed it should be free!

But hold on “The UK has now left the EU” 

“Dear DVLA”

”Photocard driving licences are the only licences now issued you cannot revert to the old style green licence once a photocard licence has been previously issued”

To add insult to injury if you renew your licence before the expiry date it starts from the application date so you lose a month as well, mine will get renewed just before midnight on 11/06/2021 then.

Having said that I will have to reapply at 70 anyway!

 

Believe it or not Steve after 70 it is a 3 year renewal cycle. but it's at no cost 🎉🎉🎉 However you have to self-declare fitness to drive which could involve your GP in which case they might charge you. There is also a small but vociferous clamour to have 70+ re-tests. 70+ also has an effect in other ways such as insurance especially travel. As to losing a month that happened to me with VED. the dealer signed me off as the new owner on the 27th of February meaning that I had to pay for the whole of February - sneaky 💰 Those are the  times when you feel like Horatius on the bridge 🤕

[Phil xxkr]

9 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Great display of ignorance and fundamental miss understanding about how EU works. But I am not surprised, if people would understand that we would not have brex****.

EU as well have legislation that every car has to drive with headlights on 24/7, which is amazing idea and for this reason it is so much easier and safer to drive in Continental Europe compared to UK - you can clearly see all the cars from far away, because headlight makes cars many times more visible, especially dark grey ones in the gloomy November afternoon.

But UK does not have this... why? Euro is as well European legislation, but we still use Pound... why? That is because any European legislation has to be put into law by LOCAL GOVERNMENT. It has always been and still is only the UK government discretion which legislation they put into law and which they don't, as any other government in EU. Being part of EU or not part of EU makes absolutely no difference - we have photo card licenses not because of EU, but because our government thought it was good idea (which it is) and put into the law.

Not only that - UK had representation in EU and voted in favour on over 96% of all legislation, so if our MEPs voted in favour of it then how it is EU fault. Perhaps we should have elected retard like Fartage as a MEP then?  

I have no issue with that, but I have an issue with the statement that this was somehow EU fault that we have to have one.

Linas, I have no issues with you selectively quoting 96% which demonstrates what a supplicant and supportive member of the EU the UK was. However you don't go on to say, as such you would have expected and in addition given  a huge net contribution from the UK should have meant us being hugely influential and successful in legislative terms would you not? So here are the facts :-

 

"The lack of influence is quite marked. Over the past twenty years, which is roughly the time that the Euro has been in existence, there have been 72 occasions in the Council of Ministers where the United Kingdom has opposed a particular measure. Of those 72 occasions, we have been successful precisely 0 times and we have lost 72 times"

[Las Palmas]

10 hours ago, Sundance said:

It's not BS at all.  It was as a direct result of a series of EU Directives that the current European photo card Driving Licence came about.  As time progressed both the Council and the European Commission deemed it necessary to replace all the different models used by individual Countries (States) and consequently all Members of the EU had to comply.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing as the photo card licence is reputedly more difficult to forge, but it is totally wrong to say that the EU did not have a hand in it, quite the contrary. 

Please. Do not let it get into a contra or pro Brexit.

All countries have stupid rules. A bright teacher told me that the fewer laws a country needs, the better the country. Faeroe islands and Iceland were what he mentioned then. It is a long time ago. But I think he got a point there.

[Las Palmas]

11 hours ago, cruisermark said:

my photo license expired in December 2020 - but DVLA are giving an 11 month extension due to Covid.

I got a year and a half because I forgot. If you do not feel old, why would you need to renew the license?

[Las Palmas]

53 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

Of those 72 occasions, we have been successful precisely 0 times and we have lost 72 times"

I am not particualr a fan of EU, but I think that even though both are loosers, the UK lost the most.

[Malc]

10 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

the UK lost the most.

I don't know, nor want to at this stage of a completed Brexit .....  thank heavens it should all be over bar the noise of the disgruntled 

what I am watching is the future defence use of the Martello Towers around Britain with the Royal Navy about to strike a formidable blow against the French navy of fishing ships ( not fish and chips ) battling for the Jersey owned fishing grounds 

Is France / Macron really intending ( as he says )  to stop all electricity supplies to this nation of Jersey, thereby putting lives at risk .....  hospitals, the old and vulnerable  the disadvantaged, poor and needy .........  oh, and the EV owners to re-charge their cars ...........  coz he needs the Jersey fishing grounds which are sacrosanct to the rightful owners of those grounds ...  Jersey

oh dear, we thought Brexit was done and dusted 😲

Malc

[Phil xxkr]

10 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

I am not particualr a fan of EU, but I think that even though both are loosers, the UK lost the most.

John, you should follow cricket more closely because apart from a result, win/lose (tie/draw) there is the concept of "playing the game" And it is clear that the EU is, and has never been a signatory to the fair play code of conduct, consider the treatment of Greece as an example. So would you really want to play in that particular league? Oh, and just in case this is a deviation from Lexus topics just look at the situation in Jersey right now? With the threat of a 37% cut in electricity supplies to the island how would you, as the Parliament, prioritise supplies? Would your UX300E have priority or would you be only be able to recharge on odd or even days for example? Welcome to the future of unrestrained constraints 🔮

[ColinBarber]

4 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

Would your UX300E have priority or would you be only be able to recharge on odd or even days for example?

Even with the limited range of the UX 300e, you probably wouldn't need to charge up more than once every two weeks if you lived on Jersey 😉 

[Phil xxkr]

11 minutes ago, Malc said:

I don't know, nor want to at this stage of a completed Brexit .....  thank heavens it should all be over bar the noise of the disgruntled 

what I am watching is the future defence use of the Martello Towers around Britain with the Royal Navy about to strike a formidable blow against the French navy of fishing ships ( not fish and chips ) battling for the Jersey owned fishing grounds 

Is France / Macron really intending ( as he says )  to stop all electricity supplies to this nation of Jersey, thereby putting lives at risk .....  hospitals, the old and vulnerable  the disadvantaged, poor and needy .........  oh, and the EV owners to re-charge their cars ...........  coz he needs the Jersey fishing grounds which are sacrosanct to the rightful owners of those grounds ...  Jersey

oh dear, we thought Brexit was done and dusted 😲

Malc

I think history lesson outcomes in France should be paid for from our overseas aid budget providing we supply content particularly when it comes to "having a knock against St George and the 3 Lions " 

[Phil xxkr]

5 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

Even with the limited range of the UX 300e, you probably wouldn't need to charge up more than once every two weeks if you lived on Jersey 😉 

 

3 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

I think history lesson outcomes in France should be paid for from our overseas aid budget providing we supply content particularly when it comes to "having a knock against St George and the 3 Lions " 

If you could find a charger Colin? 😁

[dutchie01]

Is France / Macron really intending ( as he says )  to stop all electricity supplies to this nation of Jersey, thereby putting lives at risk .....  hospitals, the old and vulnerable  the disadvantaged, poor and needy .........  oh, and the EV owners to re-charge their cars ...........  coz he needs the Jersey fishing grounds which are sacrosanct to the rightful owners of those grounds ...  Jersey

oh dear, we thought Brexit was done and dusted 😲

 

I don't want to scare anyone but Fishing grounds have been quite a popular topic in starting a war. Just look at the Dutch - Anglo fishing wars in the 16 and 17 hundreds. Having said that it might be helpful to remember that the French are probably the best negotiators within the EU and this fierce rhetoric from Macron will serve another goal. In the end the French always seem to get their way.. If only they built better cars hey!

 

 

 

 

[Las Palmas]

2 hours ago, Malc said:

oh dear, we thought Brexit was done and dusted 😲

Malc

Hi Malc,

Brexit is just opening a can of worms in Ireland.

Maybe Paul McCartney was right. I do not know.

One thing for sure: no such things as fair politicians. They change their mind in order to continue getting "money for nothing" (Dire Straits).

[Las Palmas]

2 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

John, you should follow cricket more closely because apart from a result, win/lose (tie/draw) there is the concept of "playing the game" And it is clear that the EU is, and has never been a signatory to the fair play code of conduct, consider the treatment of Greece as an example. So would you really want to play in that particular league? Oh, and just in case this is a deviation from Lexus topics just look at the situation in Jersey right now? With the threat of a 37% cut in electricity supplies to the island how would you, as the Parliament, prioritise supplies? Would your UX300E have priority or would you be only be able to recharge on odd or even days for example? Welcome to the future of unrestrained constraints 🔮

I admit that I never watched a cricket match so more closely would be looking at one. About playing the game it is in my eyes stupid to get into a game you have no chance of winning and that is the same for both sides.

In politics there is no such thing as fair in the books they are learning from. Just look at Johnson, all he knows is bullying. I have no UX but a hybrid that runs on gasoline.

 

[Phil xxkr]

1 hour ago, Las Palmas said:

I admit that I never watched a cricket match so more closely would be looking at one. About playing the game it is in my eyes stupid to get into a game you have no chance of winning and that is the same for both sides.

 

In politics there is no such thing as fair in the books they are learning from. Just look at Johnson, all he knows is bullying. I have no UX but a hybrid that runs on gasoline.

 

 

So John firstly, just taking part brings it's own rewards, secondly, if you ever wish to improve in any competitive endeavor say for example Chess, then the best way to do so is by playing people who are better than you. Rudyard Kipling in his poem "If" refers to triumph and disaster as two imposter to be treated the same and MS Dhoni the cricketer says, I have 3 dogs at home. Even if I win or lose a series they treat me the same way. 🍾

Regarding "Johnson"? You must be referring to Gentleman jack Johnson no doubt and not our highly successful twice London Mayor and now Prime Minister of the UK 😂

[Linas.P]

14 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

Linas, I have no issues with you selectively quoting 96% which demonstrates what a supplicant and supportive member of the EU the UK was. However you don't go on to say, as such you would have expected and in addition given  a huge net contribution from the UK should have meant us being hugely influential and successful in legislative terms would you not? So here are the facts :-

"The lack of influence is quite marked. Over the past twenty years, which is roughly the time that the Euro has been in existence, there have been 72 occasions in the Council of Ministers where the United Kingdom has opposed a particular measure. Of those 72 occasions, we have been successful precisely 0 times and we have lost 72 times"

Not sure what else you trying to find in these number - 96% are still 96% and 4% still means 4%... and all together this means that UK has almost always got what it wanted. You can't just always win!.. if 4% means 72 times... then it means (if we extrapolate based on percentage), UK was in support of ~1800 decisions and legislation was passed in favour of UK.

Besides, although UK was 4th largest contributor to EU budget (14%), it's contribution per GDP was the lowest of any country in EU (0.64%) - in short UK never paid it "fair share" into EU. Besides, by contributing 14% of the budget (vs. rest of EU states who obviously contributed remaining 86%) and getting 96% of favourable decisions it seems clear to me that UK was very successful in this game.

I mean if you feel that 14% of contribution in return of 96% of favourable decision is not "hugely influential and successful in legislative terms", then I don't know what it is. I am sure that average brexshi ter still lives in British Empire and feels that the odds should be 0% contribution in return to 100% decision power (like British Empire did in all the countries it has aggressively occupied and exploited). However, the reality is that we don't live in 19th century and in year 2021 there are no such thing as British Empire - time to wake up!

4 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

And it is clear that the EU is, and has never been a signatory to the fair play code of conduct, consider the treatment of Greece as an example. 

What did EU (and UK was part of it) did to Greece? Greece was the one which didn't pay the rules, it took structural funds for infrastructure improvements and spent it on wealthfare support, then refused to return, threatened bankruptcy and then asked for more loans.

If there is any blame which could be attributed to EU then it would be insufficient screening on existing (Greece since 1981) and new eastern entrants to the EU, and supplying loans to the members which had fundamental issues with corruption and unsustainable fiscal policy.

[Las Palmas]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

If there is any blame which could be attributed to EU then it would be insufficient screening on existing (Greece since 1981) and new eastern entrants to the EU, and supplying loans to the members which had fundamental issues with corruption and unsustainable fiscal policy.

Hi Linus,

I think it is impossible to communicate with people having alternative truths, so why not just talk about cars? Less dangerous.

[Linas.P]

15 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

Hi Linus,

I think it is impossible to communicate with people having alternative truths, so why not just talk about cars? Less dangerous.

Alternative truths ... I call that wrong truths 🙂 But your right, what is the point of trying to show blind person how the rainbow looks?

As well just to note - I am not massive fan of EU, nor I think it is "good", not even "fair", I just realise it fulfilling the purpose it was created to fulfil and that was never to be good or fair - it was just about improving collective bargaining power of European Nations, giving smaller nations leverage in negotiations against larger ones as long as they share similar values... that is all. As well it creates very beneficial frameworks and standards making it easier for any European to achieve the most what Europe has to offer, without stupid arbitrary borders and limitations. 

Going back at least a little bit to the topic... I think it is strange that driving license last so long in UK and that medical fitness test is voluntary (or self reported) rather than mandatory. This leaves loads a lot of drivers who are no longer suitable to drive on the roads. Seems to me that ~5-10years validity should be reasonable.

On the other hand considering how much government is ripping of the drivers such formalities should not cost any extra as long as they are done online e.g. if you do renewal by posting picture of yours, then there may be surcharge - both to discourage the waste generated by postage, paper and printing... and secondly because there is some costs associated with handling. But Online renewals should be free of charge and government should cover the cost from already high "road taxes" - I just put that in quotes, because apparently there is opinion suggesting there is no road tax in UK, despite VED clearly being de-facto road tax.

[Alan305]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

...What did EU (and UK was part of it) did to Greece? Greece was the one which didn't pay the rules, it took structural funds for infrastructure improvements and spent it on wealthfare support, then refused to return, threatened bankruptcy and then asked for more loans.

I don’t believe it happened quite like that. If you want to read the full detail of how the EU dealt with Greece and protected the German banks I recommend:

Adults in the Room by Yanis Varoufakis.

[Linas.P]

35 minutes ago, Alan305 said:

I don’t believe it happened quite like that. If you want to read the full detail of how the EU dealt with Greece and protected the German banks I recommend:

Adults in the Room by Yanis Varoufakis.

Yanis Varoufakis... you say? The populist who is partial in this case because his populism LED Greece into even deeper crisis and he was defamed and thrown out from the government (well he technically resigned). Thus having personal vendetta with EU, because EU held Greece accountable and that LED into his political downfall...

What next - should I read book from Boris Johnson or Nigel Fartage called "Evil EU"?... C'mon - just a drop of common sense would be great in choosing sources. 

How about using some independent opinion? Don't you see clear partiality on Mr. Yanis side? Like: https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-the-greece-debt-crisis-3305525 (american news group)

Now the part of saving German banks is true... but what is your issue? So Greece borrowed money from Banks via sale of bonds and direct government loans, most of them were German, then Greece failed to pay back, German banks were at risk to become insolvent and German Central Bank would have to bail them out. 

Why would Germans waste their tax payer money bailing their own banks instead of just doing right thing and telling the bad guy (Greece) to fix their 💩, pay up the loans and interest on the bonds which they have issued? Does it mean Greek tax payer had to pay-up.... yes absolutely. And what is wrong with that? Why it is fine for German tax payers to pay for Greek loans, but it is not ok for Greek tax payers to pay for their own loans? Sure it wasn't the actual hard working Greeks who were at fault, it was their corrupt politicians like Yanis who were at fault.

It seems that Greek problems were quite similar to British ones... they just wanted "to have their cake and eat it", but got slapped to their rightful place by EU and ended-up picking up their trash and getting back into the line like everyone else.

By the way I have met Yanis in person and he is smart and charming guy, but honest is not the way I would describe him. On positive side I have Adults in the Room singed by him personally to me, never bothered to read it past first few pages, because again it is clear he is biased and could not form impartial and comprehensive position on this topic.