Lexus GS vs ES - differences?

[lexusisfan]

Dear All,

I'm considering purchasing a 2016 Lexus GS300h F sport and this model appears to be holding its value well as apparently these are a rare sight nowadays.

Whilst searching for GS F Sport models, I came across the newer ES300h F sport and the pricing difference was not significant.

I like the exterior look of the GS a lot more, as it looks a lot sportier and aggressive then the ES.

The interior looks a lot better on the ES and there is more room in the back too. I'm also anticipating the ES to have more up to date technology.

Apart from the above, is there anything else that would make the ES a better proposition?

In your opinion, which model would you go for and why?

 

[rich1068]

RWD vs FWD is probably the main mechanical difference isn't it?

[Vlady]

I think GS is roomier in the back seats, I sat once in ES in one of the garages and being 1.8m height I was almost touching the roof of the ES and nothing like that in my GS, may be a leg room a little better in ES though.

I also think the material quality is better on GS, mainly on dashboard. 

ES will be more economical, also it might have a bigger boot. You are right, technology is more up to date on ES but I can't think of anything that will prove that, anything in particular, media display, do not think so. 

I love how ES looks from the outside but prefer the design of the dashboard on GS.

As @rich1068 said, RWD vs FWD is the main difference. 

Friend of mine is taking one (ES) for a test drive on Saturday, i am expecting a full report from him! 🙂

[johnatg]

The 7th gen ES uses a Lithium ion Battery instead of the NiMH one in the GS. It frees up some boot space as the Battery is 119mm lower depth than the GS Battery. (The 7th gen is the first ES to be sold in Europe and has replaced the GS - the 1st gen ES debuted in 1989)

 

[lexusisfan]

Many thanks for all your replies, very helpful.

I've also spotted that the maximum speed is lower by 7 miles on the ES (not that I drive at max speeds,coff,coff)

It does make one wonder whether the ES is actually a replacement of the GS or just an alternative option.

 

 

[ColinBarber]

3 hours ago, johnatg said:

The 7th gen ES uses a Lithium ion battery instead of the NiMH one in the GS.

European ES uses NiMH. But the hybrid system itself is a generation ahead of the GS though so is more efficient, as is the petrol engine.

1 hour ago, lexusisfan said:

It does make one wonder whether the ES is actually a replacement of the GS or just an alternative option.

Historically it sat in a segment below in countries that sold both (e.g. USA).

[rich1068]

Would I be wrong in saying it's a Camry with a posh interior and not a GS replacement? 

[Lwerewolf]

One is a Camry. The other is a Crown.

The GS is way more of a driver's car, but I'd seriously look for a 450h. The ES is more utilitarian.

[lexusisfan]

45 minutes ago, rich1068 said:

Would I be wrong in saying it's a Camry with a posh interior and not a GS replacement? 

Exactly my thoughts, it does look like a Ford Mondeo / Vauxhall Insignia competitor rather than a premium executive car.

 

21 minutes ago, Lwerewolf said:

One is a Camry. The other is a Crown.

The GS is way more of a driver's car, but I'd seriously look for a 450h. The ES is more utilitarian.

I would love to go for a GS450h, however I've been looking a 2016 or newer Lexus GS F Sport since the beginning of the year and they appear to be an extremely rare find.

I have a friend who is a car dealer and has trader access to BCA, he has been unable to locate any over the last few months.

I've owned black and grey cars over the last 15 years, so I'm looking for either a white or blue colour Lexus GS. If you look on auto trader, there is only one Lexus GS450h F-Sport and four GS300h F-Sport for sale in the whole country!

If anyone can find me a white or blue Lexus GS450h F Sport 2016+ model, I would definitely be interested!

[johnatg]

Is the F-Sport spec really important? It's just a bit of different trim, bigger wheels, different colour range. Not much to see there. I started off looking for a F-Sport but settled on a Premier (and for 2014 the front end styling was a bit different, but it wasn't from 2016 on).

Take a peek at some different specs - it'll be easier to find a car you'll like!

 

[ColinBarber]

18 minutes ago, johnatg said:

Is the F-Sport spec really important? It's just a bit of different trim, bigger wheels, different colour range. Not much to see there

For the 300h yes, but the 450h F Sport has rear-wheel steering, variable ratio steering and adaptive suspension which all improve handling. 

[lexusisfan]

 

1 hour ago, johnatg said:

Is the F-Sport spec really important? It's just a bit of different trim, bigger wheels, different colour range. Not much to see there. I started off looking for a F-Sport but settled on a Premier (and for 2014 the front end styling was a bit different, but it wasn't from 2016 on).

Take a peek at some different specs - it'll be easier to find a car you'll like!

 

I really like the styling of the F Sport Model. 

Nevertheless, there is only one GS450h available for sale nationwide and that is a black F Sport.

[Shahpor]

4 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

For the 300h yes, but the 450h F Sport has rear-wheel steering, variable ratio steering and adaptive suspension which all improve handling. 

Doesn't the facelift Premier also have the adaptive suspension?  My pre-facelift certainly does.

[Lwerewolf]

7 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

For the 300h yes, but the 450h F Sport has rear-wheel steering, variable ratio steering and adaptive suspension which all improve handling. 

It also has (afaik, at least in the US) bigger front discs (same calipers and pads, supposedly) that also happen to be two-piece (alu hat, cast rotor)... with no option to buy the rotor without the hat. Quite expensive to replace.

I thought that all 450h's had VGRS?

On that note - the true F cars have no VGRS, no rear-wheel steering and (afaik) no adaptive suspension... 🙂

You can do a lot to the chassis to "improve" the handling. Mine (3rd gen but still) has GS-F front LCA bushings (the big ones at the rear of the LCA that basically control dynamic toe-out/in on braking/acceleration), IS-F rear subframe bushings and poly everything else at the rear-end (OEM pillowball in the knuckle still not destroyed somehow). Similar mods started being applied to all IS/GS cars after the... 2011 (I think?) version of the IS (250/350) - retuned rear bushings directional/twisting stiffness, IS-F subframe bushes, adjusted power steering ECU calibration and so on.

[johnatg]

Isn't the front styling on all specs the same after the face lift - 2016?.

My GS300h Premier has adaptive suspension - not sure about the steering - certainly in Sport+ the suspension is a lot stiffer (bordering on uncomfortably so) and the steering is heavier - but you don't seem to get any better feedback - maybe the ratio is a bit quicker but frankly I rarely bother with Sport+

I wonder if anyone would miss rear wheel steering - it seems to come and go on top line Japanese saloons - some have it for a while then it gets dropped only to reappear - but at the mo it's mostly dropped.

[Chris111]

This link gives the technical specification for the GS 300h and 450h

https://media.lexus.co.uk/wp-content/files_mf/1517227373180125MGSTechnicalSpecifications.pdf

And this one gives the equipment list for the series 4 facelift cars

https://media.lexus.co.uk/wp-content/files_mf/1517227553180125GSEquipmentList.pdf

[ColinBarber]

4 hours ago, Lwerewolf said:

I thought that all 450h's had VGRS?

No, only the F Sport on the series IV.

3 hours ago, johnatg said:

Isn't the front styling on all specs the same after the face lift - 2016?.

Very similar, but the F Sport has a different grille design - a mesh design rather than horizontal slats.

4 hours ago, Lwerewolf said:

On that note - the true F cars have no VGRS, no rear-wheel steering and (afaik) no adaptive suspension... 🙂

2017 onwards have AVS, but no VGRS/rear-wheel steer - it's a very different car though with much better handling.

[Initial P]

I wonder what the UK numbers of GS made vs IS must be a huge difference.

I just love the look of the GS personally.

[Shahpor]

This website tells you how many were registered and are still around:

https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/

I can tell you the answer to number of GS's is not many.

[200h]

On 4/30/2021 at 10:19 AM, lexusisfan said:

 

I really like the styling of the F Sport Model. 

Nevertheless, there is only one GS450h available for sale nationwide and that is a black F Sport.

is this the 450h you've seen online

https://usedcars.lexus.co.uk/en/used-lexus/Lexus/Gs-Saloon/450h-35-F-Sport-4dr-CVT-s4clpcg

[Initial P]

I believe its now sold, not to me.

[Initial P]

I was looking this the other day:

 

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106103712133?make=LEXUS&model=GS 450H&radius=1500&include-delivery-option=on&aggregatedTrim=F Sport&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=Used&advertising-location=at_cars&postcode=al49ha&sort=relevance&page=1

Then it disappeared only to reaper just a few days later but which time I had settled on a GS250.

[Shahpor]

Why is the last service in 2075? 🙂

[ColinBarber]

On 6/10/2021 at 7:53 AM, Initial P said:

I wonder what the UK numbers of GS made vs IS must be a huge difference.

I just love the look of the GS personally.

All time numbers sold in the UK are 88,837 vs 21,901 in favour of the IS, and the GS had an 8 year (around 8,000 vehicles) head start before the IS launched in the UK.

[Initial P]

I have to say the Japanese mini cab IS never did anything for me but I like the RC we were in Lexus Hatfield the day before I found out my wife was pregnant so that was that idea gone 😝