Dash Cam - Insurance reduction

[Phil xxkr]

8 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

So, you could have avoided the accident(s) but chose not to because it was your "way of right"??

And... in my 15 years of driving I never had an accident, yes Linas but how many have you caused? 🤠🤠🤠

[LenT]

3 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Damn I might need to take a break again...

To properly answer to this topic I would need to go deep into theoretical, logical and moral arguments which may or may not be relevant i.e. insurance companies may not be fair, but we can't do anything about it. Now surely, I may not be able to do anything about it, but that does not mean I have to like it, as such I don't, I actually hate them. Instead of answering your points directly (some of them fair) I would just go back to my beliefs, which are not facts or the way things work, they are how the things should work in my opinion. Obviously, that does not make any of your points invalid, but I hope maybe it is going to help you to understand my perspective.

So to start with - driving is privilege given to everyone fairly by the government and based on clear fair criteria. Do you agree? 

So if it is given to you by the government, only the government should be able to take it away. Right?

There are million more fundamental questions like that, but let's start from here...

Linus, I hope that I can observe - without causing offence - that I have no doubt that you would be an entertaining, knowledgeable and enthusiastic chap to encounter in the flesh - so’s to speak!

3 hours ago, Linas.P said:

This is mostly true, although I religiously follow all the rules, except of speed limits. Speed limits are something I inherently cannot appreciate and will never follow, because they are set arbitrary and without true scientific reason. As such they cannot be fair and cannot be respected.

The only speed limit I follow is "safe speed based on conditions", meaning I will happily do 100 on the nice, quiet, dry and empty road on warm and sunny summer day even if sign say 50.

And... in my 15 years of driving I never had an accident which was my fault. Sure some slow retards have bumped into me few times, but it was never my fault. Perhaps I could have let them in, despite it being my way of right, but what matters is that they were at fault. 

What that means... not sure... perhaps that the way I am driving is safe enough and my judgement of "safe speed" is correct.

But possibly….not on the open road!  😃

[paulrnx]

2 hours ago, NemesisUK said:

So, you could have avoided the accident(s) but chose not to because it was your "way of right"??

Hmnnn. I thought exactly the same too.

[paulrnx]

1 hour ago, Phil xxkr said:

And... in my 15 years of driving I never had an accident, yes Linas but how many have you caused? 🤠🤠🤠

He’s seen a few too no doubt 

[paulrnx]

33 minutes ago, LenT said:

Linus, I hope that I can observe - without causing offence - that I have no doubt that you would be an entertaining, knowledgeable and enthusiastic chap to encounter in the flesh - so’s to speak!

But possibly….not on the open road!  😃

Especially if you were driving slowly and it wasn’t your right of way and Linas decided to not give way 

[paulrnx]

Insurance companies and prosecutors have been known to use evidence from motoring forums to help build a case for reckless/dangerous driving that results in serious injury or worse, by demonstrating a pattern of behaviour.

[paulrnx]

Linas should henceforth be known as Gordon Brittas 😉😀

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, NemesisUK said:

So, you could have avoided the accident(s) but chose not to because it was your "way of right"??

Well I would not say I crashed into them on purpose, although driving in London sometimes makes me want to do that.

It was the case of people being indecisive on the road and just doing something stupid on the last second. To be fair this is specifically british attitude - "they will figure out the way around me" or "no need to be rushing". My assumption is that everyone are so friendly and nice on the road (rather than being competent) that bad drivers get used to getting away with poor driving - they just assume you will manage to stop. 

To be fair I do... I do stop 100s of times everyday for all idiots cuts, but that is because are clear, sometimes I can see car from mile away and it is clear by the way they are driving that they will cut me off... and then I find the way around them. However, I am quite decisive myself when it comes to driving, meaning that I know when I am right and I will continue at full speed, unless it is clear there is obstacle. The problem is not bad or aggressive drivers, but bad and indecisive drivers. They kind of creeping in, but it isn't very clear, but then at the last second they decide to cut-off and by then it is just too late for me to do anything about it.

If I would proactively look for idiots who may do something stupid and proactively try to avoid them, I guess I could avoid accidents, but in that case I would never get anywhere in London... it is literally warzone and one needs to be prepared to fight... otherwise just use public transport.

3 hours ago, Sundance said:

A most interesting interchange of views of which in my humble opinion those contributed by Len remain the more objective and pragmatic in that they correctly portray actuality as opposed to the somewhat more tangential subjectivity of Linas's evident dislike of conformity whether it be legitimate, contractual or implied. 🙂

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but there are no evidence, nor case law provided anywhere which would prove a) that any insurance company has dash-cam in their T&C b) that implied contract could be enforced over explicit contract or that c) failing to provide footage would invalidate claim or insurance. These are all assumption based on logic that if you get benefit then you commit to something. The reality of the law is that it may not be logical and generally contracts are fairly black and white - if it is not in the contract then it does not apply.

Len opinion is based on assumption, it is logical assumption, but assumption nonetheless. I would agree he does good job of making those assumptions sound more objective and pragmatic, but they don't mean much without evidence in legal contracts (which are usually written black on which in plain English).  

Now you could continue to assume anything you like, but I will remain with my "opinion" - that unless it is written in your contract it does not apply, or can't be enforced.

Finally, I want to be very clear - such clause could be in your contract and in such case it will apply. So it boils down to my initial post - read your contract, know your rights and the conditions of the contract. Never assume anything. 

[Linas.P]

38 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

Insurance companies and prosecutors have been known to use evidence from motoring forums to help build a case for reckless/dangerous driving that results in serious injury or worse, by demonstrating a pattern of behaviour.

Yes, they do - if they can prove who is behind the posts. Not really the case for me.

43 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

Especially if you were driving slowly and it wasn’t your right of way and Linas decided to not give way 

Well, if it was my right of way, then competent driver should have known that and don't cut me off. You can't just blame the person for lack of manners, when being incompetent yourself? Right? 

By the way, I do let the people in, when it helps everyone (makes traffic flow better) and when those people at very least indicate and check if I am letting them in. The issue is indecisive and poor drivers who neither, check, nor indicate and drive erratically.

49 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

He’s seen a few too no doubt 

Specifically, 3 times I was in an accident - an all 3 times I was right. 

2 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

And... in my 15 years of driving I never had an accident, yes Linas but how many have you caused? 🤠🤠🤠

Not even sure what you mean, person at fault is the one who causes the accident. What you even trying to imply?

[paulrnx]

10 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Yes, they do - if they can prove who is behind the posts. Not really the case for me.

Well, if it was my right of way, then competent driver should have known that and don't cut me off. You can't just blame the person for lack of manners, when being incompetent yourself? Right? 

By the way, I do let the people in, when it helps everyone (makes traffic flow better) and when those people at very least indicate and check if I am letting them in. The issue is indecisive and poor drivers who neither, check, nor indicate and drive erratically.

Specifically, 3 times I was in an accident - an all 3 times I was right. 

Not even sure what you mean, person at fault is the one who causes the accident. What you even trying to imply?

So these three accidents when you were in the right. Could you have avoided these accidents?

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, paulrnx said:

So these three accidents when you were in the right. Could you have avoided these accidents?

I already said that I couldn't, 1 maybe in hindsight:

12 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Well I would not say I crashed into them on purpose, although driving in London sometimes makes me want to do that.

It was the case of people being indecisive on the road and just doing something stupid on the last second. To be fair this is specifically british attitude - "they will figure out the way around me" or "no need to be rushing". My assumption is that everyone are so friendly and nice on the road (rather than being competent) that bad drivers get used to getting away with poor driving - they just assume you will manage to stop. 

To be fair I do... I do stop 100s of times everyday for all idiots cuts, but that is because are clear, sometimes I can see car from mile away and it is clear by the way they are driving that they will cut me off... and then I find the way around them. However, I am quite decisive myself when it comes to driving, meaning that I know when I am right and I will continue at full speed, unless it is clear there is obstacle. The problem is not bad or aggressive drivers, but bad and indecisive drivers. They kind of creeping in, but it isn't very clear, but then at the last second they decide to cut-off and by then it is just too late for me to do anything about it.

If I would proactively look for idiots who may do something stupid and proactively try to avoid them, I guess I could avoid accidents, but in that case I would never get anywhere in London... it is literally warzone and one needs to be prepared to fight... otherwise just use public transport.

 

[paulrnx]

But Linas. You’d also also said earlier that you would continue at full speed unless there was an obstacle. You then go on to say in the same paragraph that if the other driver decides to change direction at the last minute then it is too late for you to do anything about it. You also say the problem isn’t bad and aggressive drivers (which sounded defensive by the way because it came from nowhere) but the real problem is bad and indecisive drivers.

Our crowded roads are full of traffic. Full of people with all varying degrees of experience and proficiency behind the wheel. All different ages too. And occasionally people also make mistakes for all manner of reasons - carelessness, uncaring, mind on other things, distractions, genuine emergency, lack of judgement, etc. All of this makes for an environment where it’s never safe to assume it is ok to proceed at full speed and if someone pulls in or suddenly changes direction then any accident is simply their fault.

From many of your posts on the forum it is abundantly clear that you are a very aggressive person with zero tolerance and understanding of any alternative view. From some of your posts on the forum it is also clear that you are a very aggressive driver. You have confirmed on many occasions that you drive at very high speeds and you don’t obey speed limits because they are stupid and often unnecessary. You’ve also claimed on more than one occasion that you can drive at these speeds because you are the best judge of what is a safe speed for a specific road at that time.

I’d suggest you are a complete maniac with no thought for anyone else but yourself. I’ve formed this view based on everything you have posted in the time I’ve been on this forum. At least from the stuff I’ve actually read, most of the time I ignore it when I can see you are off on yet another one of your opinionated rants.

[Bluesman]

2 hours ago, paulrnx said:

But Linas. You’d also also said earlier that you would continue at full speed unless there was an obstacle. You then go on to say in the same paragraph that if the other driver decides to change direction at the last minute then it is too late for you to do anything about it. You also say the problem isn’t bad and aggressive drivers (which sounded defensive by the way because it came from nowhere) but the real problem is bad and indecisive drivers.

Our crowded roads are full of traffic. Full of people with all varying degrees of experience and proficiency behind the wheel. All different ages too. And occasionally people also make mistakes for all manner of reasons - carelessness, uncaring, mind on other things, distractions, genuine emergency, lack of judgement, etc. All of this makes for an environment where it’s never safe to assume it is ok to proceed at full speed and if someone pulls in or suddenly changes direction then any accident is simply their fault.

From many of your posts on the forum it is abundantly clear that you are a very aggressive person with zero tolerance and understanding of any alternative view. From some of your posts on the forum it is also clear that you are a very aggressive driver. You have confirmed on many occasions that you drive at very high speeds and you don’t obey speed limits because they are stupid and often unnecessary. You’ve also claimed on more than one occasion that you can drive at these speeds because you are the best judge of what is a safe speed for a specific road at that time.

I’d suggest you are a complete maniac with no thought for anyone else but yourself. I’ve formed this view based on everything you have posted in the time I’ve been on this forum. At least from the stuff I’ve actually read, most of the time I ignore it when I can see you are off on yet another one of your opinionated rants.

Lets keep it friendly boys.

 

[Alan305]

15 hours ago, Linas.P said:

It was the case of people being indecisive on the road and just doing something stupid on the last second. To be fair this is specifically british attitude”

I can remember being collected from Milan airport by a customer in an Audi doing 160kph reading his texts and deciding at the last minute to turn off. He was very Italian.

He also told me a nice story about recruitment. They had 300 applicants for one engineering post. Not having time to read them all he removed the top 250 and placed them in the bin with the comment “I don’t employ unlucky people”

[Thackeray]

28 minutes ago, Alan305 said:

I can remember being collected from Milan airport by a customer in an Audi doing 160kph reading his texts and deciding at the last minute to turn off. He was very Italian.

Driving attitudes vary across the continent. I had two British born friends - one moved permanently to Paris, another to Germany.

The one in Paris said the British don't understand French driving. Crossing the road is perfectly safe in Paris. The French don't follow the rules so they don't stop at pedestrian crossings - they just drive round you. So as a pedestrian you ignore the pedestrian crossings and just set off wherever you like across these eight lane boulevards and you'll be quite safe as French drivers swerve around you. He demonstrated this several times but I was too scared to follow.

Whereas the friend who emigrated to Germany said the thing about German drivers is that they follow the rules. When they drive up to a pedestrian crossing they'll stop right on the white line because that's the rule. If, unfortunately, you've strayed across the white line as you cross the road, they'll still drive up to the line and run you over because they have the right of way.

Apologies if these stereotypes are unfounded. I'm sure they don't apply to any forum members, as fortunately all forum members are above average drivers.

[serbarry]

Being Italian I can confirm that generally Italians tend not to follow the rules and the more you go south of Italy, the worst it is. Generally in Northern Italy they are more disciplined (except for speed limits) and tend to observe the rules while in southern Italy and especially in Sicily and Naples the only rule is "first come, first past". At the crossroads without traffic lights, they just use the horn and go. No priority given whatsoever. I have learnt to drive in Palermo and I can say I am now able to drive everywhere except maybe in India, it may be challenging there though. I forgot to mention that anywhere in Italy motorists do not care about pedestrians even when they are on pedestrian crossings with a very few exceptions (one being myself and my dad).

[paulrnx]

1 hour ago, Bluesman said:

Lets keep it friendly boys.

 

All friendly as far as I’m concerned

[Alan305]

@serbarry I’ve given your post a like, just read where you learnt to drive. Respect.

[serbarry]

10 minutes ago, Alan305 said:

@serbarry I’ve given your post a like, just read where you learnt to drive. Respect.

Thank you. Anyway we should learn from civilized people like you.

[paulrnx]

On 5/11/2021 at 2:51 PM, serbarry said:

Being Italian I can confirm that generally Italians tend not to follow the rules and the more you go south of Italy, the worst it is. Generally in Northern Italy they are more disciplined (except for speed limits) and tend to observe the rules while in southern Italy and especially in Sicily and Naples the only rule is "first come, first past". At the crossroads without traffic lights, they just use the horn and go. No priority given whatsoever. I have learnt to drive in Palermo and I can say I am now able to drive everywhere except maybe in India, it may be challenging there though. I forgot to mention that anywhere in Italy motorists do not care about pedestrians even when they are on pedestrian crossings with a very few exceptions (one being myself and my dad).

We drove through Europe down to Rome in 2012. Never got more concerned for my immaculate at the time IS250 as we got stuck on the circular motorway round Rome in a traffic jam. People doing 80 down the hard shoulder, people deliberately crashing into other cars as they tried to force their way into another lane, arguments and a few fisticuffs. I’d never seen anything like it. Happened all around us. A real eye opener. 

[LenT]

23 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

…people deliberately crashing into other cars as they tried to force their way into another lane

This line transported me back to one morning when I was standing at a junction in New York.  Two opposing solid streams of traffic were turning into the same road, the traffic lights having long ago become redundant.

At about walking pace - and with desperate inevitability - two yellow cabs crunchingly merged with each other.  In seconds, no-one was now going anywhere.

Now that would have been an interesting one for dash cams to sort out!

[paulrnx]

4 hours ago, LenT said:

This line transported me back to one morning when I was standing at a junction in New York.  Two opposing solid streams of traffic were turning into the same road, the traffic lights having long ago become redundant.

At about walking pace - and with desperate inevitability - two yellow cabs crunchingly merged with each other.  In seconds, no-one was now going anywhere.

Now that would have been an interesting one for dash cams to sort out!

Knock for knock perhaps? 😀