looking at getting my first Lexus - IS300h

[Mr Vlad]

Well that got me googling. CVT is a modern more efficient version of DAFF variomatic. Hope that helps Len.

[LenT]

12 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

I asked because your profile stated is250 Premier. That's 3rd gen. Mine is 2nd gen SE-L.

Can't answer about the DAFF55 but I can't see a truck having CVT. I've driven auto 7.5t and not heard of a truck with CVT. But in essence CVT is CVT so in the Daff it'll be a variation of with similar drive.

I do believe there was actually a truck version.  I do know that there was also a single seater racer for a while, but I believe the rubber drive belt was replaced with a steel one.

[royoftherovers]

Just now, Mr Vlad said:

Well that got me googling. CVT is a modern more efficient version of DAFF variomatic. Hope that helps Len.

Don`t think it is Vlad old pal. Just wait until Mr Barber or Mr Thackery read wot you have said.😊😊

[LenT]

16 minutes ago, Mincey said:

I was told many years ago that a Daf 55 went backwards as fast as it went forwards. Having marketed them, can you confirm this either way please? 
 

 

Yes, it could...if you were brave enough.  I never was, for reasons beautifully demonstrated by the video you supplied!

But then why wouldn't it?  After all, the gear selector only had three positions: Forward, Neutral, Reverse.  Life was so much simpler in those days.

[Mincey]

19 minutes ago, LenT said:

Yes, it could...if you were brave enough.  I never was, for reasons beautifully demonstrated by the video you supplied!

But then why wouldn't it?  After all, the gear selector only had three positions: Forward, Neutral, Reverse.  Life was so much simpler in those days.

Superb! It's good to have an "urban myth" confirmed - many thanks LenT :-)

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, Mr Vlad said:

Len. The is300h is CVT which is constant velocity transmission. Your is250 (is it 3rd generation?) is a proper auto box. 

It`s proper `cos it has a Torque Convertor.

[royoftherovers]

11 minutes ago, Mincey said:

Superb! It's good to have an "urban myth" confirmed - many thanks LenT 🙂

I married an "urban myth" and now she`s my mythiss !

[Mincey]

1 minute ago, royoftherovers said:

I married an "urban myth" and now she`s my mythiss !

That's easy for you to say :-)

[royoftherovers]

3 hours ago, Mincey said:

Can I just go on the record to say that I think that my IS300H is a rocket ship and the best car in its segment bar none.

You need to stop drinking those Drambuie Shandys` James !

[Thackeray]

2 hours ago, LenT said:

Incidentally, is the Lexus CVT box in anyway similar to the CVT used in the DAF55?  I ask because I was involved in marketing them - but that would be for another thread!

A lot of CVTs use exactly the same principle as the DAF 55, except that nowadays they don't have rubber band drives. Instead the drive band is made up of small steel links, so that the band is flexible but stronger than rubber. The Mercedes A-class uses one of these and Toyota make them too, for the American market, at least.

Another thing I remember about the DAF is that if the car was cold and you had to use the choke to start the engine, you had to put it in gear first before starting the car. This was because it used an automatic centrifugal clutch and if the engine was going too fast because of the choke, you couldn't engage gear because the clutch was already locked up.

But the Toyota/Lexus doesn't use this type of CVT with a drive band on pulleys. Instead it uses a simple and elegant planetary gearset with permanently meshed cogs. There's no drive band to break. There's no engaging and disengaging of ratios to cause wear. It's so simple there's hardly anything to go wrong or wear out. This is called a power split device and the only other company I know of using this type of so-called "eCVT" is Ford. The key point is that the drive ratios are varied by the use of two electric motors incorporated into the planetary gearset. So you have three sources of power - an internal combustion engine (ICE) and two electric motors.

I've already posted this video a couple of times but here it is again to show how there are no rubber (or steel-link) drive bands in the Lexus transmission.

 

[paulrnx]

6 hours ago, Mincey said:

Can I just go on the record to say that I think that my IS300H is a rocket ship and the best car in its segment bar none.

Of course you can. I just wanted to tee you up nicely to be able to say exactly that 🤣

[LenT]

56 minutes ago, Thackeray said:

A lot of CVTs use exactly the same principle as the DAF 55, except that nowadays they don't have rubber band drives. Instead the drive band is made up of small steel links, so that the band is flexible but stronger than rubber. The Mercedes A-class uses one of these and Toyota make them too, for the American market, at least.

Another thing I remember about the DAF is that if the car was cold and you had to use the choke to start the engine, you had to put it in gear first before starting the car. This was because it used an automatic centrifugal clutch and if the engine was going too fast because of the choke, you couldn't engage gear because the clutch was already locked up.

But the Toyota/Lexus doesn't use this type of CVT with a drive band on pulleys. Instead it uses a simple and elegant planetary gearset with permanently meshed cogs. There's no drive band to break. There's no engaging and disengaging of ratios to cause wear. It's so simple there's hardly anything to go wrong or wear out. This is called a power split device and the only other company I know of using this type of so-called "eCVT" is Ford. The key point is that the drive ratios are varied by the use of two electric motors incorporated into the planetary gearset. So you have three sources of power - an internal combustion engine (ICE) and two electric motors.

I've already posted this video a couple of times but here it is again to show how there are no rubber (or steel-link) drive bands in the Lexus transmission.

 

What an elegant graphic.  I think I could watch it for hours...and may very well have to, if I’m to fully understand it.

it almost makes me feel short-changed with my old fashioned transmission.  Almost.

Now without looking it up on Google (nothing wrong with that, of course) my recollection of the DAF system was a rather more basic affair.  A V-shaped belt running between two drive wheels that had the ability to change their internal radius.  Thus changing the overall gear ratio.  Or something like that.

Don’t recall the cold start choke problem, but perhaps the hardest thing to get used to was that the engine speed remained relatively constant, while the car speed changed.  Which I guess is still the same with the Lexus.

I suppose a cynic might suggest that there’s more to go wrong, wear out or simply break.  But there’s always one, isn’t there.

[Thackeray]

1 hour ago, LenT said:

my recollection of the DAF system was a rather more basic affair.  A V-shaped belt running between two drive wheels that had the ability to change their internal radius.

Absolutely! I've never seen what the transmission actually looked like before but I've done the Googling for you and here's a video of the pulleys changing shape and size to change the ratios. Definitely quite basic.

By contrast, the Toyota/Lexus hybrid drive is pretty complicated from the electronics point of view. It wouldn't be possible without computers. But mechanically it's very simple. Here's one of the earliest Prius transmissions.

 

[LenT]

29 minutes ago, Thackeray said:

Absolutely! I've never seen what the transmission actually looked like before but I've done the Googling for you and here's a video of the pulleys changing shape and size to change the ratios. Definitely quite basic.

By contrast, the Toyota/Lexus hybrid drive is pretty complicated from the electronics point of view. It wouldn't be possible without computers. But mechanically it's very simple. Here's one of the earliest Prius transmissions.

 

Memories, memories!  Many thanks William.  If only I had had this footage back in the day!

It was - and still is - a brilliantly simple, reliable and robust system.  The engine always runs at its most efficient speed.  What could be more obvious!

Incidentally, these little DAFs were still to be seen in action quite recently. Talking Pictures TV were rerunning episodes of Van de Valk! 

[Spacewagon52]

On 4/6/2021 at 1:19 PM, Thackeray said:

Oh no! What a disaster! If someone else drives the car you might have to press a lever instead of a button! I don't know how people cope with this sort of deprivation. And if no-one else drives the car you'll still have the indignity of parents hiding their small children's eyes from seeing you as you drive by, and telling them "Don't look darling! That man's car hasn't got electric seats."

Not only that but the seats are made of leather. If this was California no-one would even consider buying a car with leather seats. At least the more expensive options have fabric seats so you don't have to suffer the leather seats if you can afford to pay the extra. And they're heated, too, which makes them even more uncomfortable.

How true. Some people just won't be told!

This has been a very interesting and funny thread to read. It is fascinating to read what features people like / miss / want / from their cars. The BIG worry I have when buying a car is: "Am I  going to be disappointed?"

All the research and a test drives, does not fully prepare you for actual ownership. Lexus cars are initially underwhelming on first acquaintance. The longer you own them the more you seem to appreciate the cars. Regarding equipment / accessories; I am convinced there is a big difference in owner expectation, depending on your age. Younger Lexus owners require more tech - especially when it comes to playing music and phone compatibility. For older owners (like me!) what was once very important, is now no longer a big issue. There are features on my 1998 LS 400 that I am sure I do not use - sunroof / heated seats.

My first priority, in buying a car, is reliability. An unreliable car would drive me crackers (try owning an old Ford!). Comfort and build quality would come second.

 

What features do I like?

ABS braking

Air bags

Automatic Transmission - Well I am also sold on automatics, provided they have a powerful

engine.

Air conditioning / heater – we forget that not many cars had these years ago

Reversing sensors

Radio / CD player

Power Steering

Trip computer

Electric windows

Electric door mirrors

Remote petrol cap

Folding rear seats flat

Heated rear window

**************************

What features could I live without?

I am not rubbishing these features, JUST saying I could forgo them.

Fast 0-60 times

Lane departure / Radar cruise / Pre-crash system

Self-parking gismo.

Cruise control (It would not be a hardship to be without this feature here in the UK)

Heated seats (I forget to put mine on in the winter! – Though they are lovely!)

TPMS – Tyre pressure monitor (something else to go wrong)

Air suspension

Phone connectivity (answering phones, even hands-free I think is a real distraction from driving)

Electric tailgate

Electric adjustable seats and steering

Sunroof

Headlight washers

Rear camera

Navigation system (Use Tim Tim)

Rear side blinds

Handbook – complete waste of time! Too long to read! Just post on here if you want to know anything! (*)

[Azzurri]

Owned 2 F Sport IS300h's. Changed one over to a C300H C class AMG line and changed back to the IS300h as i honestly thought it was more fun to drive. Yes it lacks the power of the merc, but honestly its not that slow either and as it isnt packed with about 140 sensors restricting you, the driving experience is great. 

The car turns heads, even for a 8 year old motor seems to be more modern than some newer competitor models. 

MPG wise, you're looking at low 40's in the winter when all the heaters etc are on and mid 40's in the summer. I found no difference on the motorway vs normal roads.

Negatives - lack of space in the back, so not ideal for 4 adults that are 6 ft, but this has a positive being its more compact compared to its peers, so parking in tight spots is easy especially with the drop down mirrors and reverse cam. 

[Thackeray]

1 hour ago, Spacewagon52 said:

What features could I live without?

I am not rubbishing these features, JUST saying I could forgo them.

What about this new feature?

 

[gtanny]

Picked it up and I'm extremely happy,

First impressions:

I need to learn how to work the infotainment system a bit more but didn't want to sit to long before leaving but my first wow was just how quiet it was when driving both around town and motorway, the Bmax sat at 3000rpm on a motorway and had a lot of road noise.

Once I got my phone connected the audio system is a lot better then I expected so thank you Linus, I went in with super low expectations and it's much better then the Bmax system and I was happy with that - small things like being able to see the song currently playing is a great addition for me.

Sat Nav has live traffic which i didn't expect so another plus.

Seats are for more snug then I expected but once I'd got used to them I was very comfortable.

I was told the seats were excellent condition but there is a little nick in the drivers seat but the salesman told me he would arrange for me to take it back and get it repaired - 180 mile round trip but hopefully it will be when things are open again and I'll happily spend a day in a coffee shop in Nottingham. He said he'll email me more info but still waiting.

Got back and the tires look like they are covered in a dark liquid but after wiping looks like it's more of a dust, on all 4 wheels so hopefully not an issue, if it keeps happening after I've driven it a bit more I'll get in touch with the dealer just incase it's more than just road dirt or brake dust.

CVT is nice and easy to drive, switched between the 3 modes on the way back and sport mode does still have a bit of lag but I have power now which I never did before.

Im coming from a much more basic car so I am very happy, I can see where some people could pick fault but I'm not that sort of person, I drove back very comfortable in a lovely environment and when I had the chance enjoyed the bends more then I have in any car I've owned myself.

 

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, Spacewagon52 said:

This has been a very interesting and funny thread to read. It is fascinating to read what features people like / miss / want / from their cars. The BIG worry I have when buying a car is: "Am I  going to be disappointed?"

All the research and a test drives, does not fully prepare you for actual ownership. Lexus cars are initially underwhelming on first acquaintance. The longer you own them the more you seem to appreciate the cars. Regarding equipment / accessories; I am convinced there is a big difference in owner expectation, depending on your age. Younger Lexus owners require more tech - especially when it comes to playing music and phone compatibility. For older owners (like me!) what was once very important, is now no longer a big issue. There are features on my 1998 LS 400 that I am sure I do not use - sunroof / heated seats.

My first priority, in buying a car, is reliability. An unreliable car would drive me crackers (try owning an old Ford!). Comfort and build quality would come second.

 

What features do I like?

ABS braking

Air bags

Automatic Transmission - Well I am also sold on automatics, provided they have a powerful

engine.

Air conditioning / heater – we forget that not many cars had these years ago

Reversing sensors

Radio / CD player

Power Steering

Trip computer

Electric windows

Electric door mirrors

Remote petrol cap

Folding rear seats flat

Heated rear window

**************************

What features could I live without?

I am not rubbishing these features, JUST saying I could forgo them.

Fast 0-60 times

Lane departure / Radar cruise / Pre-crash system

Self-parking gismo.

Cruise control (It would not be a hardship to be without this feature here in the UK)

Heated seats (I forget to put mine on in the winter! – Though they are lovely!)

TPMS – Tyre pressure monitor (something else to go wrong)

Air suspension

Phone connectivity (answering phones, even hands-free I think is a real distraction from driving)

Electric tailgate

Electric adjustable seats and steering

Sunroof

Headlight washers

Rear camera

Navigation system (Use Tim Tim)

Rear side blinds

Handbook – complete waste of time! Too long to read! Just post on here if you want to know anything! (*)

The Royal Borough within which RoyoftheRovers lives does not necessarily agree with the contents of the  aforementioned list with particular reference to the final entry.😊

[Thackeray]

10 minutes ago, gtanny said:

Picked it up and I'm extremely happy,

Great that it worked out ok.

The tyres look as though they're painted with that treatment dealers put on tyres to make them look nice and clean. Or is it something else you've noticed?

 

[Spacewagon52]

(*) = joke John!

[royoftherovers]

26 minutes ago, Spacewagon52 said:

(*) = joke John!

I guessed and responded in kind !

[paulrnx]

1 hour ago, gtanny said:

Picked it up and I'm extremely happy,

First impressions:

I need to learn how to work the infotainment system a bit more but didn't want to sit to long before leaving but my first wow was just how quiet it was when driving both around town and motorway, the Bmax sat at 3000rpm on a motorway and had a lot of road noise.

Once I got my phone connected the audio system is a lot better then I expected so thank you Linus, I went in with super low expectations and it's much better then the Bmax system and I was happy with that - small things like being able to see the song currently playing is a great addition for me.

Sat Nav has live traffic which i didn't expect so another plus.

Seats are for more snug then I expected but once I'd got used to them I was very comfortable.

I was told the seats were excellent condition but there is a little nick in the drivers seat but the salesman told me he would arrange for me to take it back and get it repaired - 180 mile round trip but hopefully it will be when things are open again and I'll happily spend a day in a coffee shop in Nottingham. He said he'll email me more info but still waiting.

Got back and the tires look like they are covered in a dark liquid but after wiping looks like it's more of a dust, on all 4 wheels so hopefully not an issue, if it keeps happening after I've driven it a bit more I'll get in touch with the dealer just incase it's more than just road dirt or brake dust.

CVT is nice and easy to drive, switched between the 3 modes on the way back and sport mode does still have a bit of lag but I have power now which I never did before.

Im coming from a much more basic car so I am very happy, I can see where some people could pick fault but I'm not that sort of person, I drove back very comfortable in a lovely environment and when I had the chance enjoyed the bends more then I have in any car I've owned myself.

 

Nice looking car. A good experience so far. Thanks for posting. Enjoy!

[Mincey]

2 hours ago, Spacewagon52 said:

There are features on my 1998 LS 400 that I am sure I do not use - sunroof / heated seats.

 

 

Here's something which may shock some of you. On neither of my IS200s, did I ever, even once, open the sunroof. No tilting or opening. I didn't even look at, let alone touch, the switch. Can't even remember where it was! What's the point of opening the sunroof - or - even opening the sunblind, which I never, ever did, when you have a fully functioning climate control system? Someone is bound to come up with an opposing view and I've just nipped down to my local Ladbrookes to put a bet on who I reckon it will be...

[Sully888]

@gtanny congrats! Car looks lovely and its sounds like you’ll be very happy with it 😄