looking at getting my first Lexus - IS300h

[F.A.]

21 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Actually I have used it a lot and missed the feature in RC. Yes there is only particular setting when it is useful … and that is when you driving in early morning west or in late evening east, sun is either rising or going down and thus blinds you over rear view mirror, then you raise the sun bling and everything is dandy. I did not think I will use it so much, but I did use it and there were several times where I was thinking in my RC "if only I had sun blind now"...

Yes, I too find the rear blind useful, with the kids in the back. I’m glad they fitted one to the  GSF and also that it raises  automatically after reversing, even when you haven’t driven forward again, unlike the IS250. 

[Linas.P]

11 hours ago, F.A. said:

unlike the IS250. 

Yes that was annoying bit, and if you switch the engine off then you can't raise it. So it is the matter of remembering to put in D for a second before parking. Else you need to switch ignition again and press the button.

[F.A.]

34 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Yes that was annoying bit, and if you switch the engine off then you can't raise it. So it is the matter of remembering to put in D for a second before parking. Else you need to switch ignition again and press the button.

Yes, I still find myself reaching for the button now after reverse parking, even though it’s no longer required !!!

[paulrnx]

13 hours ago, Sully888 said:

James, you need to flick that switch by the parking sensors for it to make that noise 😆

I've just sold my IS300H F-Sport, @royoftherovers made me feel guilty so I'm looking for a Premier. I despised the suspension on mine. I'm chickening out at buying an Audi (and dont have deep enough pockets to buy new). If I regret it he might find my ghost haunting him in Cheshire.. mind you if I use the Lexus SatNav I might not get there before xmas..

I reckon a facelift car with 18” wheels is better than a pre-facelift car on 17” wheels, assuming both are standard suspension. I hated my own 2014 IS250 F-sport with a vengeance. It felt like it had no suspension travel at all and was far too firm to the point where it was uncomfortable. A dream on motorways and dual carriageways but poor everywhere else. My 2019 IS300H Sport had better ride comfort than my 2104 IS300H Executive and also an IS200T Sport I had for six months. Whatever suspension changes they made in the facelift cars seemed to improve the ride comfort, at least to my backside and ears anyway.

[Mr Vlad]

As per comfort in the is300h premier. I've had 2 both being 64 plate so 2014 cars. I think back then the premier came with 17" rims. Now what I found was my 1st one rode harsh. Thudded in pot holes and was awful. 2nd one however floated on pot holes never thudded and was super comfy. Before I bought it I took it on a test drive and purposely hit every pot hole speed bump and anything else which I thought would unsettle the car. I told the salesman my intentions and he said go for it. I knew after hitting the first pothole that was the car for me.

So like I've stated numerous times even though the car is exactly the same in spec colour etc etc they actually are not the same. 

[royoftherovers]

2 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

As per comfort in the is300h premier. I've had 2 both being 64 plate so 2014 cars. I think back then the premier came with 17" rims. Now what I found was my 1st one rode harsh. Thudded in pot holes and was awful. 2nd one however floated on pot holes never thudded and was super comfy. Before I bought it I took it on a test drive and purposely hit every pot hole speed bump and anything else which I thought would unsettle the car. I told the salesman my intentions and he said go for it. I knew after hitting the first pothole that was the car for me.

So like I've stated numerous times even though the car is exactly the same in spec colour etc etc they actually are not the same. 

Wheel size, Profile, Type of Tyre and Manufacturer and Suspension all contribute as well Vlad.

[Linas.P]

Paul/Vlad - were tyres the same on cars you comparing? I think that would be the single most important factor.

Premier certainty came with 18" wheels (same as F-Sport) - just different design. But there are several OE Lexus uses for the tyres and although most provide very mediocre tyres (Yokohama and Bridgestone mostly) there is still significant difference on how they feel. It may be that F-sport comes with "sportier" tyres than Premier.

Pressure could be a factor as well e.g. Recommended on 18" is something like 36PSI, if tyres are inflated to say 30PSI, this could feel significantly softer than normal. This is ages old salesman trick - pump the tyres if buyer is younger for car to feel sportier, release some air for if buyer is older for car to feel more comfortable. 

Other thing to consider - on used cars previous owner often have different brand tyres, so when the car is on Continentals, Michelins, Dunlops or Goodyears it may be that car feel much more comfortable than OE Yokohamas or Brigestones. Even wear could be a factor - take brand new car with brand new tyres and tyres may be louder and harder riding than part worn tyres.

As John mentioned - it is possible that there were other minor revisions in things like bushings, dampers etc which could improve the ride quality, but I doubt they would provide major improvement without fully redeveloping the design.

[Mr Vlad]

Yes John as you've stated but the only difference I can think off is tyre brand on the two 300h's I had. Everything else was identical (except the ML in the 1st one wasn't anywhere as good as the 2nd) I just can't remember what tyres were on the cars but possibly what was on them from new as the cars were about 40k miles on each.

[Bounce75]

I believe there were some changes to the Facelift model in 2017 that I was reading about, here are a couple of bits I found.

"Not all is lost, however, as Lexus’s efforts to tighten up the IS’s handling has resulted in noticeable gains. Where the old car’s steering felt rather numb off centre, the revised system feels more direct, allowing you to place the front-end accurately on the road."

"Lexus says the new IS range benefits from stronger suspension components (nominally, the lower arm assembly and number one bush) plus revised coil rates, altered shock absorber components and revised damper rates, adding up to improved handling and comfort. "

I find my IS300h on 17" wheels is very quite & handles pot holes very well, certainly better than my previous Volvo V40.

[ColinBarber]

3 hours ago, Linas.P said:

As John mentioned - it is possible that there were other minor revisions in things like bushings, dampers etc which could improve the ride quality, but I doubt they would provide major improvement without fully redeveloping the design.

The facelift models have the following suspension and steering changes:

Front:

Steering knuckle and front lower suspension arm assembly are changed from steel to forged aluminium to reduce weight and increase rigidity. The lower arm bushing was also changed.

New shocks with different damping, different spring rates and upper mounts.

Power steering ECU programming revised.

 

Rear:

Anti-roll bar bushing redesigned.

 

[Bowserman]

On 4/4/2021 at 3:57 PM, royoftherovers said:

Thanks for the update Steve.

Has the Lexus had an impact on your driving style ? Has it changed your anticipatory skills or awareness of other vehicles ?

What `s your view on the eCVT gearbox ?

I really like the cvt. Not to everyones taste, but I have got the fast driving out of my system (61 year old) and just like cruising.

I was once a HGV driver trainer with an emphasis on fuel economy so love tring to squeeze out the extra mile. 

[David lings]

All

Tomorrow i test drive a '17' plate IS300h Advance model and hence found all your comments useful.

My concerns have been with performance of the elastic band transmission which appear from your comnents to be a relevant concern.

Not a lover of automatic transmissionanyway -  not driven one yet that ever knows what gear it wants to be in and once it has decided it is all too late - so will pay  particular attention tomortow to 'pick-up'.

Spare and repairs for  BMW, Merc, Audi, Lexus ate always eye watering.

Many thanks

David 

[royoftherovers]

18 minutes ago, David lings said:

All

Tomorrow i test drive a '17' plate IS300h Advance model and hence found all your comments useful.

My concerns have been with performance of the elastic band transmission which appear from your comnents to be a relevant concern.

Not a lover of automatic transmissionanyway -  not driven one yet that ever knows what gear it wants to be in and once it has decided it is all too late - so will pay  particular attention tomortow to 'pick-up'.

Spare and repairs for  BMW, Merc, Audi, Lexus ate always eye watering.

Many thanks

David 

Welcome David.

The 300h does not have an elastic band transmission.

It has the most reliable transmission money can buy.

It does not have any gears and does not have conventional performance.

So, it may not be for you.

We look forward to you reporting back.

[Mr Vlad]

Hi David. If you've never driven an automatic car then you'll find the is300h weird. You'll probably think 'WTF' with the revs revving higher than you've experienced in manual cars (unless you've revved the nuts of them). I bought a is300h from all other cars being manual and couldn't get used to it. Exchanged it for an auto mondeo sport. After a year I bought another is300h and loved it to bits.

Have a very opened mind when you test drive the is300h. They're a fantastic car. 

[Thackeray]

The big advantage of CVT is that the engine can always operate at its optimal speed. With a manual gearbox the selected ratio almost never allows the engine to be operating at its optimal speed for maximum power output. On small cars, this means that a CVT allows a smaller lower powered engine to be installed because maximum power is always available if it’s really needed. It also means Formula 1 cars would be faster if CVTs hadn’t been banned. Even though the cars could go faster than conventional cars my guess is that the race would sound so different that the fans wouldn’t like it.

The disadvantage of CVT is that people think they want maximum power but they don’t like it when they get it because petrol engines are noisy. Maximum power for the IS300h is around 6,600 rpm and maximum torque around 4,400 rpm. Hence the complaint from journalists trying out the Lexus hybrid drive that the engine is noisy when they put their foot down. They prefer a more powerful (and less frugal) engine which you don’t have to rev a lot to get a reasonable response.

 

But this is partly because that’s what they’re used to. I doubt that many people feel the same way about planes which are also able to apply maximum power almost instantly like a CVT.

 

Imagine a plane lined up with the runway and coming in to land.

 

Tower: Tower to ZZ12345. Abort landing. BMW parked on runway.

Co-pilot: Aborting landing. Maximum power to go around.

Pilot: No, I don’t think so. That will be very noisy if you do that. The passengers won’t like it. And we’ve got a party of car journalists on board. We don’t want to get a lot of bad publicity for bad driving do we?

Co-pilot: But sir, we’re just four seconds away from hitting that BMW. We need to apply maximum power.

Pilot: Let’s not get excited about this. We’ll just apply a little more power…

Co-pilot: Yes, that’s it. But we need a lot more.

Pilot: … and then we’ll just ease back on the power and shift into third.

Co-pilot: But sir, we don’t have gears. We can surge up to maximum power and with three seconds to go we can just clear the BMW if we do it now.

Pilot: But maximum power is so noisy. The passengers won’t like it if we go straight for maximum power.

Co-pilot: They will like it, sir. I can hear them shouting in the cabin. They’re saying “Why don’t they apply maximum power?”

Pilot: They’re just car journalists. They don’t understand how to use a plane’s gearbox. Let’s just increase the power gently and then we can ease off and shift into fourth and we’ll just clear the BMW.

Co-pilot: But sir, we’ve only got two seconds left (and that’s not taking into account that it’s taken 35 seconds for us to have this conversation)…

Pilot: … time flies when you’re having fun…

Tower: Last chance to go around. The BMW driver hasn’t come back.

Co-pilot: Please sir, let’s apply maximum power.

Cabin loudspeakers: Brace! Brace!

Fire engines: Nee-naw! Nee-naw!

 

(Note: No BMWs were damaged in this sketch.)

[First_Lexus]

18 hours ago, David lings said:

All

Tomorrow i test drive a '17' plate IS300h Advance model and hence found all your comments useful.

My concerns have been with performance of the elastic band transmission which appear from your comnents to be a relevant concern.

Not a lover of automatic transmissionanyway -  not driven one yet that ever knows what gear it wants to be in and once it has decided it is all too late - so will pay  particular attention tomortow to 'pick-up'.

Spare and repairs for  BMW, Merc, Audi, Lexus ate always eye watering.

Many thanks

David 

^^ I’ve driven automatic virtually my entire driving life, through a combination of necessity and choice. The only automatics I’ve ever driven that “...didn’t know what gear to be in...” were those with DSG transmissions.The Lexus eCVT can’t be like that as it doesn’t have gears as such. Personally I’m an advocate of CVT transmissions as they are so smooth, but they do require the driver to be progressive rather than aggressive with the throttle.

As an aside, I’m reminded of a friend with whom I drove many miles over a number of years. He never drove an automatic, as he said he preferred being ‘in control.’ I don’t think I’ve ever been in a car with anybody who was less in control and more suited to an automatic...the best option was always to sleep through the terror! 😆 After all, I’ve always said I wanted to die in my sleep.

[Spacewagon52]

14 minutes ago, First_Lexus said:

CVT transmissions as they are so smooth, but they do require the driver to be progressive rather than aggressive with the throttle.

I fully agree with Ed here. I was concerned about how I would find the CVT compared with my RX300. If you drive them very hard the revs do tend to go higher than expected. To get the best out of driving a hybrid with a CVT box, smooth acceleration, throttle off then slight touch on the throttle to maintain required speed. The smoothness needs to be experienced to fully appreciate the technology involved. 

"Progressive rather than aggressive"  sums it up perfectly.

 

Any update David Lings on your test drive? How did you find it?

[Bounce75]

12 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

Hi David. If you've never driven an automatic car then you'll find the is300h weird. You'll probably think 'WTF' with the revs revving higher than you've experienced in manual cars (unless you've revved the nuts of them). I bought a is300h from all other cars being manual and couldn't get used to it. Exchanged it for an auto mondeo sport. After a year I bought another is300h and loved it to bits.

Have a very opened mind when you test drive the is300h. They're a fantastic car. 

Now I have come from driving manuals for the last 40 years & slipped into the CVT almost immediately, I really like the way it drives, it just seems so smooth which I find really relaxing.

[David lings]

Hello All

The IS300h test today went ok.

The dealer spent 40mins on how wonderful the car was, how many electronic gimmicks it had, how well it was made, how reliable it was and how powerful with a 2.5ltr engine boosted to perform like a 3.0ltr engine by the hybrid system.

I took it for a short test drive and certainly a very nice car.

The only dislike was the transmission and lack of power from such a large engine.

It is powerful enough if only that power was transmitted a little better/smoother.

The transmission reaction time was not very impressive and yes a bit noisy and not smooth when forced.

My wife has a 10 year old Honda Accord automatic and I was expecting better but alas not, so a little disappointed.

Disappointing but not necessarily a killer blow. 

On returning to the dealer it was further disappointing to find such a supposed quality car needs extra guarantee, roadside assistance as it might break down and the lifetime guarantee on the leather seats suddenly needed renewing for every new owner.

The take it or leave it attitude of the dealer was the last straw so I said  ‘ thank you but no thank you’.

After spending weeks in lockdown researching cars like a Merc C Class, Audi A4, Lexus, etc. and the Lexus coming out on top I now have the dilemma of finding another car that comes up to the Lexus spec.

That’s life I guess.

Thanks to all for your helpful comments but it looks like I will be departing the Lexus club shortly.

 

David

[Bounce75]

30 minutes ago, David lings said:

Hello All

The IS300h test today went ok.

The dealer spent 40mins on how wonderful the car was, how many electronic gimmicks it had, how well it was made, how reliable it was and how powerful with a 2.5ltr engine boosted to perform like a 3.0ltr engine by the hybrid system.

I took it for a short test drive and certainly a very nice car.

The only dislike was the transmission and lack of power from such a large engine.

It is powerful enough if only that power was transmitted a little better/smoother.

The transmission reaction time was not very impressive and yes a bit noisy and not smooth when forced.

My wife has a 10 year old Honda Accord automatic and I was expecting better but alas not, so a little disappointed.

Disappointing but not necessarily a killer blow. 

On returning to the dealer it was further disappointing to find such a supposed quality car needs extra guarantee, roadside assistance as it might break down and the lifetime guarantee on the leather seats suddenly needed renewing for every new owner.

The take it or leave it attitude of the dealer was the last straw so I said  ‘ thank you but no thank you’.

After spending weeks in lockdown researching cars like a Merc C Class, Audi A4, Lexus, etc. and the Lexus coming out on top I now have the dilemma of finding another car that comes up to the Lexus spec.

That’s life I guess.

Thanks to all for your helpful comments but it looks like I will be departing the Lexus club shortly.

 

David

Thats a shame, perhaps you need to find another dealer with a better attitude?

I really is a great car, maybe ask to have one for a whole day?

[Mincey]

16 hours ago, Thackeray said:

 It also means Formula 1 cars would be faster if CVTs hadn’t been banned. Even though the cars could go faster than conventional cars my guess is that the race would sound so different that the fans wouldn’t like it.

 

 

[Mincey]

11 hours ago, David lings said:

 

On returning to the dealer it was further disappointing to find such a supposed quality car needs extra guarantee, roadside assistance as it might break down and the lifetime guarantee on the leather seats suddenly needed renewing for every new owner.

 

Most people here have used their Lexus AA membership for breakdowns with other cars in their families. I have yet to see a Lexus stuck at the side of the road, unlike their German competition, which seem to have an affinity for the hard shoulder...

[Mr Vlad]

Mmmmmm quite harsh David. I suggest you test drive another is300h from a different dealer. Now you've tried just the one car and as I said you'd find it weird but try another one because that car you drove doesn't seem proper to me. If driving a 2nd 300h still doesn't float your boat then may I suggest a 3rd gen is250. 

[royoftherovers]

24 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

Mmmmmm quite harsh David. I suggest you test drive another is300h from a different dealer. Now you've tried just the one car and as I said you'd find it weird but try another one because that car you drove doesn't seem proper to me. If driving a 2nd 300h still doesn't float your boat then may I suggest a 3rd gen is250. 

He`s not yet learned to drive a Hybrid Vlad.

Lexus Hybrids don`t accelerate, they glide and their progression is linear.

He`ll learn.

[David lings]

Sat quiet today to reflect on Monday.

First the comment that the Lexus does not accelerate but glides In must admit is a pertinent point.

Talking to a friend with a Lexus it would seem the dealers, perhaps rightly, think the cars sell themselves, so all they have to do is sell as many options as possible.

This would perhaps better describe my experience.

However, the whole thing has left me disappointed and less interested in buying Lexus at present.

The dealer I went to is 30 miles south and we have another dealer approx same distance north.

I will take your suggestion to try a different dealer if the Lexus Is reconsidered.

one other point.

Does anyone have any experience of depreciation of a Lexus IS300h.

I told the dealer no financial deal required as it would be a cash sale.

When I returned from the test drive they asked if I wanted to see the deal they had put together.

All this turned out to be was a hire purchase deal with high interest rates and a PCP deal both with optional extras included.

Also my is200 had suddenly gone from having some trade in value to costing me £20 if I wanted them to dispose of it. A though perhaps £250 to help seal the deal as nothing off the asking price but not so - oh the disappointment!!!!!

The PCP deal claimed to offer the very best trade-in value after 3 years. A 2017 car would lose £10.5k in three years.

It seems a lot but is in line with my friends experience who comments his car is depreciating at a greater rate than is repayments.

Anyone experienced such a high depreciation.

David