looking at getting my first Lexus - IS300h

[First_Lexus]

4 minutes ago, LenT said:

Harsh.

But true. 😊

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/bmw-driver-causes-10-car-pile-up-after-unexpectedly-using-indicator-20210319206306

[wharfhouse]

14 hours ago, Linas.P said:

This is quite funny statement... I have owned RC200t and in 1.5 years only drove it for 4000 miles. Yet I had at least 4 different IS300h as courtesy cars, RC300h for entire weekend where I did over 1000 miles in it, I tried ES300h, NX300h and in total I have driven them more than 5000miles. Thinking about it I know more about how 300h drives than 200t.

IS300h just isn't sporty car - fact. Lexus marketing is really misleading on it, it does handle well, but in engine department does not exist as far as I am concerned. I wasn't even offended by ES300h, because despite being FWD with such engine there isn't really any difference.

As well, what I said quite clearly - if one does not need performance and does not need sporty car, then IS300h is ~OK. Certainly, sufficient to keep-up with traffic  in the city and comfortably cruise at legal speeds... still I would not want to find myself in one on A-Road behind the truck because finding overtaking opportunity will be difficult.

Now OP has said that performance is not an issue and indeed coming from 1.4 B-Max it may even be improvement. However, it is still correct to warn people that 300 does not mean 3L (that is what Lexus says) and one should not expect sporty driving experience.

Finally - again I am quite concerned regarding executive spec which is very poor (compared to B-Max it is good, but compared to Lexus it is poor). Here is were Lexus is slightly unusual - on most german cars you get maybe 2 trims e.g. Luxury and M-Sport and then everything else is optional, in the end of the day Luxury may be equipped just as well )or rather as poorly) as M-sport. On Lexus trim is everything, options are very few, so if you get Exective you get generally very few options on the car, but when you go to F-Sport you suddenly have car which is nearly fully loaded bar ML system, sat-nav and maybe sunroof. 

IMHO it's horses for courses. I have an IS 300h in Executive trim. I came from a BMW 330i. I had a full day test drive in the IS 300h so had chance to really compare and contrast and off the back of that bought a 2 year old IS 300h with 40k miles from a Lexus dealer the next day. I could have bought any marque (though had got bored of BMW having owned quite a few) and any trim levels but what I wanted was a reliable, sensibly quick, reasonably equipped car that could do longer journeys in comfort and that would represent me well with my work clients. My cars are not treated with kid gloves as they are also a tool that I need to get me around the country earning money. Over 4 years on and closing on 100k miles the IS 300h is running like new and is a pleasure to get into and drive every day. Like others have said we all have our own views on cars and what is right and wrong for each of us. Reading just car reviews I may have not bought the car but spending a day in one sold it to me. 

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, wharfhouse said:

IMHO it's horses for courses. I have an IS 300h in Executive trim. I came from a BMW 330i. I had a full day test drive in the IS 300h so had chance to really compare and contrast and off the back of that bought a 2 year old IS 300h with 40k miles from a Lexus dealer the next day. I could have bought any marque (though had got bored of BMW having owned quite a few) and any trim levels but what I wanted was a reliable, sensibly quick, reasonably equipped car that could do longer journeys in comfort and that would represent me well with my work clients. My cars are not treated with kid gloves as they are also a tool that I need to get me around the country earning money. Over 4 years on and closing on 100k miles the IS 300h is running like new and is a pleasure to get into and drive every day. Like others have said we all have our own views on cars and what is right and wrong for each of us. Reading just car reviews I may have not bought the car but spending a day in one sold it to me. 

Not very clear then whenever you agree or disagree with me, because that is basically what I have said just in different words.

I said it is comfortable and reliable car to cruise around the country - seems like we agree. I as well said it is not sports car, nor very sporty - I can't see you making argument against it - so seems we agree again.

Executive trim is factually one of the lowest trims available - not much to say there, it just is. When buying new I understand pros and cons of trims are directly related to money and BIK, but when buying used it does not cost much more just to get better trim, even if it is compromise of having 10k more miles. As such when buying used I would always try to get best trim available within my budget - rather than realising later I am missing 50% of best features car has to offer (especially in Lexus where retrofitting is most often not possible). Again, I cannot see you arguing any different here. 

[wharfhouse]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

Not very clear then whenever you agree or disagree with me, because that is basically what I have said just in different words.

I said it is comfortable and reliable car to cruise around the country - seems like we agree. I as well said it is not sports car, nor very sporty - I can't see you making argument against it - so seems we agree again.

Executive trim is factually one of the lowest trims available - not much to say there, it just is. When buying new I understand pros and cons of trims are directly related to money and BIK, but when buying used it does not cost much more just to get better trim, even if it is compromise of having 10k more miles. As such when buying used I would always try to get best trim available within my budget - rather than realising later I am missing 50% of best features car has to offer (especially in Lexus where retrofitting is most often not possible). Again, I cannot see you arguing any different here. 

Neither agreeing nor disagreeing - you make some valid points but from your perspective and needs which is fine  - just wanted to point out that I made different decisions based on what I needed at that time (which may also be similar to others debating as to what marque or trim to buy). I don't think that any decision is a wrong decision as each to his or her own. Every decision is a compromise is one way or another. It's just good when people find a car that suits their unique circumstances. 

[gtanny]

Loving the discussions going on but the deal is done, deposit paid today, collection on Wednesday, fingers crossed.

Sold by lexus Nottingham who wouldn't budge on the price (Inchcape group so apparently prices are set by head office and are non negotiable) but managed to get a full tank of fuel and 3 years warranty at a discount price so I'm happy.

Also going to take up the service plan for the 3 years.

I'm very happy with the spec I have as the Bmax has very little so cruise control was enough to sell me, I tend to listen to audiobooks and podcasts when I drive as I find them more relaxing, although I am prone to blasting a bit of metal so hopefully the speakers are at least adequate, my hearing is terrible and I'm no audiophile so I'm not worried.

One final trip to IKEA tomorrow in the Bmax before giving it to my mum.

 

Thanks for all the help, I'll pop up a couple of photos once I've collected it.

[LenT]

52 minutes ago, gtanny said:

Loving the discussions going on but the deal is done, deposit paid today, collection on Wednesday, fingers crossed.

Sold by lexus Nottingham who wouldn't budge on the price (Inchcape group so apparently prices are set by head office and are non negotiable) but managed to get a full tank of fuel and 3 years warranty at a discount price so I'm happy.

Also going to take up the service plan for the 3 years.

I'm very happy with the spec I have as the Bmax has very little so cruise control was enough to sell me, I tend to listen to audiobooks and podcasts when I drive as I find them more relaxing, although I am prone to blasting a bit of metal so hopefully the speakers are at least adequate, my hearing is terrible and I'm no audiophile so I'm not worried.

One final trip to IKEA tomorrow in the Bmax before giving it to my mum.

 

Thanks for all the help, I'll pop up a couple of photos once I've collected it.

I’m sure you’ll be delighted with your choice, Gary. They are handsome designs, very comfortable to drive and ownership is a very satisfying experience.

You’d have to be extraordinarily unlucky to enjoy anything less than a renowned level of reliability.  But it’s a good move to take out the 3-year Lexus Service Plan.  

As far as the speakers are concerned, I think the 2014 model will have the 13 speaker Mark Levinson sound system, which even to my aged ears perform more than adequately.

[Bounce75]

9 hours ago, gtanny said:

Loving the discussions going on but the deal is done, deposit paid today, collection on Wednesday, fingers crossed.

Sold by lexus Nottingham who wouldn't budge on the price (Inchcape group so apparently prices are set by head office and are non negotiable) but managed to get a full tank of fuel and 3 years warranty at a discount price so I'm happy.

Also going to take up the service plan for the 3 years.

I'm very happy with the spec I have as the Bmax has very little so cruise control was enough to sell me, I tend to listen to audiobooks and podcasts when I drive as I find them more relaxing, although I am prone to blasting a bit of metal so hopefully the speakers are at least adequate, my hearing is terrible and I'm no audiophile so I'm not worried.

One final trip to IKEA tomorrow in the Bmax before giving it to my mum.

 

Thanks for all the help, I'll pop up a couple of photos once I've collected it.

Congratulations, I am sure you will be absolutely delighted with it, shame you couldn't get a discount, but as long as you are happy that is all that matters, enjoy.

[Thackeray]

10 hours ago, LenT said:

As far as the speakers are concerned, I think the 2014 model will have the 13 speaker Mark Levinson sound system,

Just to temper expectations, I'm not sure the Mark Levinson system was available even as an option on the executive model in 2014, or in fact on any of the other models except F Sport (optional) or Premier where it was standard.

But apart from that, if you're used to automatics I'm sure you'll find the car great. If you're not used to automatics then the driving experience will be different from driving a manual. I think it's better. But for some people who like the involvement of constantly pressing and releasing the pedals and the jolting as you change gear it can be difficult to get used to. Let us know how you get on.

[LovingLexus]

Congratulations

[Linas.P]

11 hours ago, LenT said:

As far as the speakers are concerned, I think the 2014 model will have the 13 speaker Mark Levinson sound system, which even to my aged ears perform more than adequately.

https://media.toyota.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Lexus-Full-Price-List-October.pdf

That is one of the concerns I raised about Executive trim - it is second worst trim and by default Lexus IS300h all trims except Premier comes with horrible 6 speakers audio as standard. Executive most certainly does not come with Mark Levison - as William said, this is not even available as an option.

What I didn't know, but just realised now - Exec does not even have electric seats and as far as audio goes in fact the only system fitted to Exec is the most terrible 6 speaker system in existence.

Compared to B-Max I am sure the system won't be downgrade, but it is certainly not the system one expect to find in premium car by default... actually in any car - it is just outright awful. @gtanny It is alright just to listen the radio and audiobooks, but it is certainly not adequate for any sort of music. 

Well... what can I say, I have warned about it, but I guess Gary was aware of that when making decision to pay deposit and is satisfied with specification and options of the car.

[Mr Vlad]

Excellent news Gary. When you get the car take a detour home and enjoy your new car. Good to know someone else likes to listen to METAL the best music there is in my opinion (been a metal head since I was 6). Don't know what spec your Bmax is but titanium spec and above the Ford system is one of the best, I've had 4 mondeo's and 2 focus.

[Thackeray]

25 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

What I didn't know, but just realised now - Exec does not even have electric seats

Oh no! What a disaster! If someone else drives the car you might have to press a lever instead of a button! I don't know how people cope with this sort of deprivation. And if no-one else drives the car you'll still have the indignity of parents hiding their small children's eyes from seeing you as you drive by, and telling them "Don't look darling! That man's car hasn't got electric seats."

Not only that but the seats are made of leather. If this was California no-one would even consider buying a car with leather seats. At least the more expensive options have fabric seats so you don't have to suffer the leather seats if you can afford to pay the extra. And they're heated, too, which makes them even more uncomfortable.

25 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Well... what can I say, I have warned about it

How true. Some people just won't be told!

Edited April 6, 2021 by Thackeray
Forgot to underline key words

[Linas.P]

16 minutes ago, Thackeray said:

Oh no! What a disaster! If someone else drives the car you might have to press a lever instead of a button! I don't know how people cope with this sort of deprivation. And if no-one else drives the car you'll still have the indignity of parents hiding their small children's eyes from seeing you as you drive by, and telling them "Don't look darling. That man's car hasn't got electric seats."

Not only that but the seats are made of leather. If this was California no-one would even consider buying a car with leather seats. At least, the more expensive options have fabric seats so you don't have to suffer the leather seats if you can afford to pay the extra. And they're heated, too, which makes them even more uncomfortable.

How true. Some people just won't be told!

I know you joking, but I don't think it is much of an issue either - as long as one knows that is the case and makes decision based on it. However, Lexus cars are generally well equipped and one could expect that things like electric seats comes as standard. You are correct in saying that if one is going to be the only driver this won't be an issue.

As for leather - Lexus has ventilated seats for exactly the same reason, but guess what - Exec does not have ventilated seats. 

Overall, my whole issue with buying used low trim Lexus is that full package is often available for same price, or maybe for £1000 more. So why have less for the same price?! As such I just would not be able to live with myself knowing I have chosen car without most of equipment.

Seats being non-memory, non-electric that isn't much issue for me, seat ventilation is nice to have in summer, but 6-Speaker audio would be a real deal breaker, electrically adjusting steering with memory is nice because it get's out of the way when you turn the engine off (easier to get in and out). But there are million small quality of life details one would expect from Lexus as well, I cannot confirm them all but isn't that the case that Exec does not have auto-dimming mirrors? 

[Thackeray]

7 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

I just would not be able to live with myself knowing I have chosen car without most of equipment

Oh I know! The shame of it...

[Thackeray]

10 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

isn't that the case that Exec does not have auto-dimming mirrors?

I think it does. They all do except the SE

[Linas.P]

7 minutes ago, Thackeray said:

Oh I know! The shame of it...

Not really the shame, but it is kind of hilarious when you have "luxury car" and you look at the place where button for something suppose to be and it is blank cover remind you chat you cheapen out. Or you open the owners manual and instead of reading about all amazing functions your cars has, you read about all amazing functions your car could have had, but doesn't 😁

This is especially obvious on poverty trims of German cars, where you look from a far and you think - ohh that is beautiful C-Class coupe, then you come closer and it is C180 with absolutely basic and manual everything, not even stop start, nor keyless entry. Like literally on 2020 car you come open it and start it with key like in 90s. 

I may indeed be specs freak, but as I said - if better spec. comes without extra costs then why not? 

Just now, Thackeray said:

I think it does. They all do except the SE

I checked and interior mirror does, but does exterior mirrors does it as well? 

[LenT]

27 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

https://media.toyota.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Lexus-Full-Price-List-October.pdf

That is one of the concerns I raised about Executive trim - it is second worst trim and by default Lexus IS300h all trims except Premier comes with horrible 6 speakers audio as standard. Executive most certainly does not come with Mark Levison - as William said, this is not even available as an option.

Jeez!  It was only a casual afterthought!!!

In fact I tried to find a Full spec for a 2014 IS300h - and failed.  But unlike Linus, it didn’t occur to me to look on the web under media.Toyota.  So thank you, Linus - something new learnt today.

But if it’s any consolation, Gary, my 2015 IS Premier has the 15-speaker ML system and it’s totally wasted on me, what with my 76-year old ears.

What’s more important is that it’s only one more sleep until Gary discovers that it’s not what the car doesn’t have that matters.  It’s the joy that the rest of it will give that counts.

[Linas.P]

I am certain that if comfort and reliability were the main things OP was looking for in the car, then IS300h Exec will be exactly that, but sadly nothing more than that. Lexus experience could certainly be more than that.

[Mincey]

8 minutes ago, Thackeray said:

Oh I know! The shame of it...

Electric seats without memory are a waste of time. I am reminded of the time I took my IS200 in for its first service. I went to collect it and the Receptionist took me to where it was parked. She was very petite and not much over 5' tall. I'm about 5'10" and I like pies. She had parked my car. It took at least five minutes for the seat to whirr back far enough for me to fit my racing snake figure behind the steering wheel.

Not having memory seats is exactly why I do not let my wife drive my car. I wouldn't let her anyway, but I've got the seat where i want it and I'm not going to have her faffing about with it.

 

[LenT]

20 minutes ago, Mincey said:

Electric seats without memory are a waste of time.

 

Except, my seat has 3 positions.  I use one in summer when I’m usually just wearing something summery above the waist, and one in winter when I’m bulked out by a jacket.

That leaves a spare that I’ve never used and never will.  However I’m sure that if the car was driven by three different people then memory seats would be very useful.

But otherwise it’s a bit like buying a washing machine because it has 14 programmes- but only ever using three!

[Spacewagon52]

15 minutes ago, LenT said:

 

That leaves a spare that I’ve never used and never will.

You could set Position 3 to push back your seat fully to allow easy access and exit of the vehicle?

 

Just a thought?

[Linas.P]

32 minutes ago, Spacewagon52 said:

You could set Position 3 to push back your seat fully to allow easy access and exit of the vehicle?

I found this quite useful for passenger seat when I had mk2 IS250, just short of shortcuts - when I have my body 6'2" builder friend he would roll the seat all the way back, so we allocated him position 3, my girlfriend would have position 1 and position 2 would be in the middle where it doesn't block my view to the side. 

What I found funny is that RC does not have passenger memory seat despite memory seat being standard on driver side, usually that is not a problem unless you turn the engine off with seat folded forwards and then I have to reach over to adjust passenger seat which is quite awkward. 

49 minutes ago, LenT said:

But otherwise it’s a bit like buying a washing machine because it has 14 programmes- but only ever using three!

But if you could have washing machine with 10 or 14 programmes for the same price - which one would you choose? And to be fair electric seats with memory, or electric steering wheel adjustment isn't even useless option.

And even if one is the only driver of the car, then you may still take car for service, or leave it in airport parking with valeting etc. and sure that is no more than a minute wasted to adjust the seat, but I never want to be haunted with the feeling that the seat is somehow not adjusted like before and being unable to find the position or simply not satisfied it is in the exactly same position as before. So memory seats are really just part of "luxury car ownership experience".

[Mincey]

5 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

What I found funny is that RC does not have passenger memory seat despite memory seat being standard on driver side

That's outrageous. What on Earth made you buy the car? I tell you - the next time I see someone driving an RC, I'm going to point and laugh!

[LenT]

24 minutes ago, Spacewagon52 said:

You could set Position 3 to push back your seat fully to allow easy access and exit of the vehicle?

 

Just a thought?

And a good thought at that.  Except when the ignition is turned off, and I get in and buckle up, the seat and steering wheel self-adjust - eager to please.

They do the reverse when I unbuckle and sense that I’m planning to exit.  Normally, of course, it would all be done by the Butler.

[Linas.P]

13 minutes ago, Mincey said:

That's outrageous. What on Earth made you buy the car? I tell you - the next time I see someone driving an RC, I'm going to point and laugh!

Actually, it is - because driver seat at least I can adjust myself, but to adjust passenger seat I need to unbuckle, reach over to another side etc. and obviously, if I haven't done that before I set-off then I would have to stop to do it - major inconvenience.

It would be acceptable in some classic car or bmw 3 series from 80s (basically classic car) but not in "modern" 2016 Lexus RC which had list price of £42k when new. As well it is unacceptable because RC interior is based on IS, but RC is more expensive - yet IS with memory seats gets memory function on both driver and passenger side and RC only on driver... and RC is coupe, meaning that seats will be moved to access rear seats, so memory function is even more necessary - just makes no sense.