New to Lexus - Help needed

[ryan14421]

Hi guys, I’m looking at getting an IS200 something like this one....Lexus IS200 2.2 Advance

The main reasons for choosing Lexus IS reliability, and diesel for the economy as the V6 are too thirsty for my budget. Is there anything I need to look out for when looking at a used IS200 diesel? Thanks in advance. Ryan
 

[madasahatter]

Yes stay well away from them, you're going to hate Lexus if you do not.

[mk_lon]

A quick glance through this forum will show that a large proportion of the posts are to do with problems with the diesel. In my opinion your better off with the petrol with a automatic gearbox however they are thirsty.. 

[McShmoopy]

I had this same dilemma myself when wanting to get an IS, unless you’re planning to do hundreds of thousands of miles the diesels are not worth it. Not only for the reliability issues, but the economy is not much better than the IS250 assuming there isn’t some issue drastically affecting the diesel economy and the gear changes are incredibly clunky. 

it is true the is 200d made some slight improvements over the 220d but overall you’re better off with either an automatic IS250 petrol or the auto IS250. It is a thirsty car but on a run you can achieve 42mpg with cruise control at 70mph and a light foot can aid the town driving economy. 

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, ryan14421 said:

Hi guys, I’m looking at getting an IS200 something like this one....Lexus IS200 2.2 Advance

The main reasons for choosing Lexus IS reliability, and diesel for the economy as the V6 are too thirsty for my budget. Is there anything I need to look out for when looking at a used IS200 diesel? Thanks in advance. Ryan
 

IS220d/200d are the least reliable car Lexus ever made by very very long way. As short as I can say it - stay away from it as far as you can.

If you want evidence, scroll few pages on this forum and you will see literal hundreds of threads. Main issue - head gaskets, very common to fail, injectors and 5th injector common to fail, other issues are more general issues with diesel cars and that is EGR and DPF blockages, if not addressed quickly then it could lead to turbo failure which is another expensive issue. This car is ticking time bomb on wheels. 

When you says V6 is too thirsty for the budget, I am not sure you getting your math right. In the city IS250 will be similar to IS220d - say 28-29MPG vs. 31-32MPG. 2-3MPG is hardly a deciding factor. Where IS220d has edge is long distance motorway driving where you could get close to 50MPG, whereas IS250 maxes out at mid 40's... I seen as high as 44MPG myself and some members achieved 48... but that is exception. I would say 38-42MPG is best you could expect. 

Now considering above ~8MPG is decent improvement, but what mileage you planning on doing? 30-50k miles a year, sure that will make huge difference. But of you planning to do 10-12k miles a year the savings on fuel going to be so minor that just additional ongoing maintenance required on diesel (EGR cleaning for example) will cost you many times more than potential saving on fuel.

Where I can see the difference is the initial purchase price - sure IS250 is almost double the price of IS220d, but IS220d is cheap for a very good reason... they simply s***. And issues doesn't even end with reliability, they are only available with manual gearbox which not only little bit weird when it comes to gear ratios, but on top of that is known to be less reliable and more maintenance intensive than automatic on IS250.

So if you say the car purchase price is out of your budget, then I understand that, but running cost will actually be lower on IS250. Even considering that IS250AT is one of the best value used car for sale at the moment and IS220d is the one to avoid for any price.

[Linas.P]

Actually after looking around IS250 AT isn't even much more expensive to buy:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202102018575695

It is no brainer to go for diesel disaster, when for £600 one can have one of the most reliable and best equipped cars on the market + the one above is as well SE-I which is second best trim (SE-L being best and SE-I being ~ same as F-Sport). Whereas "Advance" is pretty much the second worst trim.

[Texas]

Please Do Not get a DERV Lexus, prob the worst badge Lexus ever put on a car (d) 

Look for a nice 250 and you won’t ever look back! Check the ‘Engine & Transmission’ section of this forum before choosing a Diesel Lexus as you will see that it is littered with the mechanical problems of diesels!

Mpg of the diesels will not be a million miles off of a 250 but the maintenance costs when ( not if ) problems arise will wipe out any mpg savings you may have accrued.

once again please spend some time reading around this forum as I would not have one if you Gave it to me, harsh but true.

mpg of my 250 last week!

 

[Mr Vlad]

Hi Ryan. Good move in asking here for advice. There is a rule of thumb regarding choosing between diesel and petrol. Choose diesel for annual mileage of 20k plus. Choose petrol for annual mileage below 20k.

Now it is possible to have a diesel car when annual mileage is say around 6k But you need to know the history of that car, has it been looked after, has it a full service history? For example the car I had before my current is250 was a Ford Mondeo titanium x sport 2.2 diesel auto. My annual mileage was 4k. Yes I drove it 2 miles to work. However once a week I took it on a 35 mile motorway run. I'd still have that car But the market with diesel cars is on a definite downward travel. I'd have lost £7k if I sold that car today compared to losing £3k 8 months ago. Food for thought. 

[Texas]

Another negative for the DERV is that they only came with manual gearboxes, which for me is not very Lexus like, I like to drive smoothly and comfortably without the need to ‘stir’ a gearbox along the way and besides 6th gear is unusable in the uk (legally!)

[Mr Vlad]

Oh I forgot to say. Paul, you surely must win the prize for best mpg in a is250. I've only managed that once on a motorway run Manchester to Leeds at 65 mph. Well done you 👍

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, Texas said:

Another negative for the DERV is that they only came with manual gearboxes, which for me is not very Lexus like, I like to drive smoothly and comfortably without the need to ‘stir’ a gearbox along the way and besides 6th gear is unusable in the uk (legally!)

Good mechanical gearbox although not "Lexus like" is still fine in my opinion, but the one fitted in IS220d isn't even a good gearbox. The gear rations are rather steep and unsuitable for UK, as you mentioned 6th is totally useless under 70MPH and only really becomes useful at 80+ (which is obviously illegal). Probably in Europe where in most countries 90MPH is the legal limit that makes sense, but not in UK.

On top of that manual gearbox requires more maintenance, at 100k miles expect to change clutch and DMF... parts and labour ~ £1000

[ryan14421]

Thanks for all the advice people. I will start to have a look around then for a decent IS250. Is there anything I should look out for on the petrol version when buying? Anything I should be checking. I will be looking at around 2011-2012 model. Thanks

[madasahatter]

Make sure all recalls are done. Visual inspection of body work and exhaust. These are expensive. They are pretty bullet proof, high mileage should not

be a problem provided price reflects this. If i was you i would look for a model with half leather seats, will then come with Xenon's and Mark Levinson.

[Texas]

You won’t go far wrong with a well looked after 250, and if you drive like miss Daisy ( hard I know ) you can get numbers like this,

 

[Mr Vlad]

So you are now going to look for an is250 but a 2011/2012 model yes? There's quite a difference in price like 4x. The diesel price is circa 3.5k. That can but a 2007 SE-L Is250 with all the toys.

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, ryan14421 said:

Thanks for all the advice people. I will start to have a look around then for a decent IS250. Is there anything I should look out for on the petrol version when buying? Anything I should be checking. I will be looking at around 2011-2012 model. Thanks

Generally, they are bullet proof as long as maintained. So I would look for car with full service history. Hyper low mileages doesn't really add value to these cars, I sold mine at 193k miles and it was still solid car without any major faults in all the miles.

I would say all general car buying advice applies - service history, condition inside and outside and that is pretty much all it needs. Approaching 10 years it will start to have some rust on exhaust, but that is normal. on IS mk2 calliper design is not the best, so be prepared to get those refurbished and then re-grease them once or twice a year otherwise they will get stuck. Tyres are the obvious thing to check and negotiate price on, decent set of tyres will set you back say £350-400, so if the car has bald ones or china specials then this could used to get the prices reduced accordingly. 

I personally would no look in 2011-2012 models - there is nothing particular better on them, same basic car, same basic features, same reliability, the only difference is that they are rarer and double the price. Sure FL adds indicators on the mirrors and DLR, but is that feature worth paying £5000 for ... you can decide. I would rather go other way - I would get as old as possible SE-L (top range model). That would have all the toys and would be best value for money. In the end of the day it is your money, so you can decide, but value wise pre-FL models are the best and has no major differences.

[Razor61]

Just to add my 3 pence worth having bought a 2010 IS250 SE-I late last year. Don't discount Lexus Main dealers, I concluded that you can get a lower mileage IS250 from independent dealers, eBay, facebook, autotrader etc or a higher mileage IS250 from a Lexus dealer for more or less the same price or a bit more.

My experience of buying last year. I looked at independent dealers, eBay, facebook, autotrader etc for a 'good' one. I did see a blue IS250 SE-L (2006/07 iirc) with lowish miles, fsh apparently and had all the extras and toys I was looking for but I wanted a silver car really so didn't pursue it. I then thought about Lexus main dealers, just out of interest I had a look at what was available and what the price difference was compared to other sources. When I looked on a Wednesday there were 4 or 5 IS250's for sale at Lexus Wolverhampton ranging from 6.5k to 10.5k some with low miles and some with around 80k. So I called them and decided on a silver 2010 IS250 SE-I (not an SE-L which I was looking for) 84k, fsh, nearly all of the extras and toys (sat nav, parking sensors etc but not ML audio, memory seats, HID headlights etc that you get with the SE-L). There was a black SE-L with 80k miles but I didn't want black so plumped for the SE-I. Negotiated on the price plus an extra 2 years extended Lexus Warranty and 2 year service pack. All in it was around £7,300 (can't remember exactly). I don't think it was too expensive considering peace of mind with a Lexus Warranty. By the Friday of the same week all the IS250's had been sold so they do come up for sale at main dealers but they don't seem to stay around long. The deal was all done remotely, car had a full service, front alloys done, bodywork scratches sorted and the car was delivered to my door. Painless operation all round and I couldn't be happier, apart from it's not an SE-L but you have to compromise sometimes according to what is available at the time.

[Texas]

As a contrast I am not one to worry about ‘insuring’ things, Certainly not one of the most reliable cars ever made! Some people tend to want to insure ‘everything’...phones, washing machines, fridges ( one of the most reliable appliances out their!) and TV’s but not me. Get a well maintained 250 and look after it well ( maintenance wise I mean ) and it will serve you for a good long while and be very cost effective in the long run.

Note: I know you are looking at later cars but if you do go ‘older’ for some reason check out this thread.

 

 

[Razor61]

16 minutes ago, Texas said:

As a contrast I am not one to worry about ‘insuring’ things, Certainly not one of the most reliable cars ever made!

I agree and I wouldn't normally be bothered about an extended warranty. In my case buying a Lexus Approved car, £550 iirc for 2 years Lexus Extended Warranty (2 years for the price of one) which gave me 3 years in total, I figured it was worth it. I may never need to use it but you never know.

[Texas]

I don’t reckon you’re gonna need it but 🤞for you.

[AntC]

In my opinion, the only plus to diesel cars is higher torque at lower RPM and slightly better MPG. Everything else is a downside. Sure, there are good diesel cars out there but they always end up costing more in maintenance than a petrol car of the same range would.

For instance, every ~10-15 year old diesel that you may buy, you will have to deal with the standard DPF and EGR issues. The clutch on a manual diesel gearbox will always cost more to replace compared to that of a petrol car. And as others have stated, if you plan on driving in the city most of the time, it's just not worth it as the car can't start the regeneration process to burn off all the soot which will undoubtedly lead to issues.

Generally speaking, the D4D engine used in the IS200/220, as well as various Toyota models is an Ok engine, however, it seems that they did a rather poor job in terms of longevity with the diesel Lexus. There are, of course, good diesel cars available, but the IS200/220 is not one of them. Consider the fact that this is the last diesel Lexus ever made.

When I initially had my sights on a 2nd Gen IS, I was tempted to go for the diesel, but after reviewing various Toyota and Lexus forums, I realized that despite the car being almost half the price, it will quickly end up costing a lot more in maintenance.

When going for a Japanese car, petrol is almost always the better option and the price difference between a petrol and diesel car of the same make/model/year will almost always reflect this. For reference, this is the case with the Mitsubishi Lancer and Honda Accord.