The brand new Toyota Supra!

[The-Acre]

I was behind one today and then got level with it, what a fantastic looking car. Is it just me or is it better looking than any Lexus model including the LC500?  It looked really big as well compared to previous models.  I want one!

[ColinBarber]

Nice but just a hardtop Z4. BMW engine and electronics, ZF transmission, BMW chassis. Not even assembled by Toyota, uses the same contractors that BMW uses for the Z4.

[Linas.P]

It meant to be really beautiful, but to adapt it to Z4 they have shrunk it to this silly looking chubby and over-aggressively styled car. I don't think it looks horrible, but nice it certainly isn't. As well inside it is carbon copy of BMW... it would not be a bad thing but it is copy of last generation BMW, whereas Z4 actually get's latest infotainment.

Not sure what you mean by it being big? It is certainly smaller that A80 or it's own concept car. New Supra is about the size of Porsche 718 - that it small sports car and not GT car like old Supra.

I think they should have based it on LC platform and then hardpoints would have been closer to original concept making it actually stunning looking car. Looking at below images and comparing to what we got it is like comparing real Ferrari and MR2 based Ferrari Replica - sort of looks similar, but proportions are all wrong.

[The-Acre]

By big I mean compared to earlier Supras, or maybe just being red made it seem big, and it looks quite wide. I realise it's more or less a BMW in disguise but seeing it in the flesh I thought it looked brilliant.  Eye of the beholder and all that! It's a shame most concept cars are sanitised before they hit production.  I still want one though, especially as I've always liked the Z4!

[cruisermark]

I've never had an interest in Supra's but when I looked at the picture (without reading the comments), the first thing that came to my mind is BMW Z4 lol!

[dutchie01]

I like it, it is a refreshing to see a car like that in a sea of cross overs and suvs. Would i buy one, no i wouldnt just like almost nobody would i guess, coupes have become unsellable. Yes its a BMW under the skin but so what, as long as you lease or buy with warranty you are fine.

[The-Acre]

2 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

I like it, it is a refreshing to see a car like that in a sea of cross overs and suvs. Would i buy one, no i wouldnt just like almost nobody would i guess, coupes have become unsellable. Yes its a BMW under the skin but so what, as long as you lease or buy with warranty you are fine.

 

4 hours ago, cruisermark said:

I've never had an interest in Supra's but when I looked at the picture (without reading the comments), the first thing that came to my mind is BMW Z4 lol!

This is one thing I find with very modern cars, they all look very similar.  I've seen what I thought were Lexus SUVs that turned out to be Nissans and Hyundai etc and vice versa!  

[Linas.P]

@The-Acre - cars do get bigger over the years, but mk4 was bigger car... not only for it's time, but literally as well. For new Supra to be on the same level adjusted for times it should be the size of LC... More appropriate name for this Toyota/BMW collaboration would have been Celica (small sports coupe), not Supra (large GT coupe). 

3 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

I like it, it is a refreshing to see a car like that in a sea of cross overs and suvs. Would i buy one, no i wouldnt just like almost nobody would i guess, coupes have become unsellable. Yes its a BMW under the skin but so what, as long as you lease or buy with warranty you are fine.

There is nothing wrong with it being BMW, but I still don't like badge engineering and the fact that Toyota was fully capable making a better car and arguably had better platform for it. Their excuse is that they didn't have in-line 6... but that is total BS. Not only they now going to offer supra with 4-banger, which they arguably have themselves (8AR-FTS), but that 4-banger (which is terrible) was specifically designed as next-gen modular engine. So for Toyota to take 8AR-FTS as base and add 2 more cylinders wasn't really that big of an issue, and just cursory calculations shows that power from 6 cylinder version would be comparable to BMW unit... if not little bit better. 

Besides as I said - BMW Z4 gets all the latest toys and technology, whereas supra based on exactly same platform get's last gen. Further - the price really does not make sense for what it is - £52k+ for small sports coupe?! No thanks. If one wants cheap and cheerful coupe there is very good (Subaru) GT86 for half the price.

I feel that the only reason for this compromised car is that Toyota didn't want to compete with it's own LC500. In 90's it was OKEY to compete with Lexus SC400, because Lexus wasn't all the more premium, it was just more American and it was all about Luxury. So it was fine for SC400 to be built on the same platform as Supra as both cars occupied different segment. Supra was sporty GT car, SC400 was Luxurious GT barge. Nowadays LC500 is Luxurious, but it is still sporty GT... New Supra if based on the same platform would still be Luxurious and still sporty GT, but likely for say £10k less and it would cannibalise LC sales.

However, LC based Supra would be truly good car, whereas Z4 based Supra is very very compromised car... I quite liked below view/opinion:

 

[The-Acre]

Interesting video.  Apart from the Z4 and the Z3 I've never liked BMW styling. The Supra on the other hand, I love the styling.  I'll never buy either so to go by styling alone is enough for me, I'll leave performance etc for those who will buy it/them!

[dutchie01]

The market for small ( or big ) sport coupes or convertibles is almost dead. Everybody likes them, the motoring press continuously writes and raves about them but the sad fact is that absolutely nobody buys them.  The LC does not sell, the GT86 ( JV between Toyota / Subaru with a Subaru boxer engine) does not sell, the BMW Z4 does not sell. The numbers do not add up. If Toyota did not team up with BMW there would not be a Supra nor would there be a new Z4 the car would be killed off. The development costs are just too high for the potential number of cars, no business case. That is the sad truth nowadays.

In the seventies cars could literally be developed on a shoestring budget ( or no budget). If you are interested go to you tube and look for davide cironi. An italian journo that had interviews with the old timers running alfa, lambo, fiat etc. Mindboggling how it went in those days, cars like the countach or stratos or 155 just an idea of one person developed in a shed without budget whatsoever. No longer. budgets, forecasts, safetyregulations, emissions long term objectives the list goes on and on. Result is that volume producers will only produce volume cars. If a model falls below the threshhold it will not happen. Unless of course it serves a marketingpurpose halo type of car. Like the LC or Yaris GR. 

Maybe we should all go out there and but a nice coupe?   

[Linas.P]

37 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

Maybe we should all go out there and but a nice coupe?   

I would certainly do... sadly Lexus does not sell "nice" coupe in UK... at least none that I could afford 🙂

[Linas.P]

I see no reason to get BWM Supra, when BMW sells their own 4-Series cheaper, with next generation infotainment, more practical and actually faster. I know this will be unpopular opinion, but I don't mind BMW grill and overall just for the looks I would choose BMW 4 series over BMW Supra in fact it would be hypocritical for Lexus owner to criticise BMW when Lexus grill is even bigger. What I don't like is that the rest of BMW bumper is kind of busy - if they just keep 2 massive kidney grills and no other vents it would look better in my opinion, but it actually look okey as it is, especially in person it does not look offensive at all.

Finally, just to prove my point - you can have BMW 440i which is bigger more practical car for less than supra, it comes with rear folding seats, so it is as well more practical and it is faster. In this video they are comparing with AWD 440i, but RWD is actually cheaper:

Finally, I would certainly choose RC over BMW if Lexus would make one with decent engine, but they don't.

[Mr Vlad]

What about the 5.0l RCF? As for the bmw toyota supra. It looks good and that's it. I wouldn't have called it a supra. Doing so I think insults true supra fans, I'm not one by the way. Car companies have collaborated with each other for decades and no one really battered an eye lid. So I can't understand the batting of eye lids with bmw and toyota collaborating on a 2 seater coupe. 

[The-Acre]

Bloody hell, all I do is comment on my visual interest on a car, that's it!

[rich1068]

You and me Phil. And we're not going to invite any of those people 👆 to our mini meets.

[Mr Vlad]

Blimey if you want to believe the bmw supra is better looking than the Lexus LC then that's your perogative. What I said is my perogative. Oh the LC knocks the supra for a six in my opinion 👍

[Linas.P]

21 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

What about the 5.0l RCF? As for the bmw toyota supra. It looks good and that's it. I wouldn't have called it a supra. Doing so I think insults true supra fans, I'm not one by the way. Car companies have collaborated with each other for decades and no one really battered an eye lid. So I can't understand the batting of eye lids with bmw and toyota collaborating on a 2 seater coupe. 

Yes I argued they should have called it Celica which was their small sports coupe model nameplate and fit it with 2.0t, later introduce 3.0t version and call it Celica Supra (which would be historically correct name). 

Calling it Supra is insulting, because Supra stood for GT car with supercar beating power (which new Supra isn't at all)... fans wanted the replacement for very long time and this thing is just "spit in the face" really - cheap attempt to monetise legendary nameplate.

20 hours ago, The-Acre said:

Bloody hell, all I do is comment on my visual interest on a car, that's it!

I cannot say it is not nice car, it is like mini version of what it should have been. Overall I have mixed feeling about it - on one hand it is reasonably capable, but slightly overpriced car (especially looking in comparison to BMW 440i), on other hand it is just worst version of what Supra could have been... for example if Toyota would have decided to to base it on LC it would be actually mazing car and if they would have more or less kept the design of concept (which I argue they could using LC) then it would be truly amazing looking car. 

[Phil xxkr]

1 hour ago, Mr Vlad said:

Blimey if you want to believe the bmw supra is better looking than the Lexus LC then that's your perogative. What I said is my perogative. Oh the LC knocks the supra for a six in my opinion 👍

For a woman to change her mind is her perogative, for a man to change his is pure purgatory 

[The-Acre]

33 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Yes I argued they should have called it Celica which was their small sports coupe model nameplate and fit it with 2.0t, later introduce 3.0t version and call it Celica Supra (which would be historically correct name). 

Calling it Supra is insulting, because Supra stood for GT car with supercar beating power (which new Supra isn't at all)... fans wanted the replacement for very long time and this thing is just "spit in the face" really - cheap attempt to monetise legendary nameplate.

I cannot say it is not nice car, it is like mini version of what it should have been. Overall I have mixed feeling about it - on one hand it is reasonably capable, but slightly overpriced car (especially looking in comparison to BMW 440i), on other hand it is just worst version of what Supra could have been... for example if Toyota would have decided to to base it on LC it would be actually mazing car and if they would have more or less kept the design of concept (which I argue they could using LC) then it would be truly amazing looking car. 

All fine and dandy, but to me, having only ever seen one, and that was driving through Brighton which would make an Austin Allegro a welcome distraction, I just loved the look of it. I couldn't care less if it drove like the aforementioned Austin as I've no intention of buying one, in the eye of this beholder it was fab, but that's the extent of my real interest in it.  Of course, should one of you wealthy readers feel overly benevolent there's a place on my drive for your generous gift!

[Linas.P]

I kind of see your point - if you actually not looking to buy it, then the interest is the same as looking at nice castle, mountain, painting etc. and then price and performance largely does not matter no point in making comparisons. 

However, when one is in the market and actually consider such car, contrasts and compares it to competition, looks at pros, cons and what the car could have been, then the perspective and value proposition certainly changes.

In first case I agree - in isolation it is nice car. 

[The-Acre]

25 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

I kind of see your point - if you actually not looking to buy it, then the interest is the same as looking at nice castle, mountain, painting etc. and then price and performance largely does not matter no point in making comparisons. 

However, when one is in the market and actually consider such car, contrasts and compares it to competition, looks at pros, cons and what the car could have been, then the perspective and value proposition certainly changes.

In first case I agree - in isolation it is nice car. 

And I may just be in the market for a castle with paintings and a mountain view! So if you have a few million spare, or you win the lottery or similar then please remember me! Although I'm guessing with a residence like that a Bentley would be better than a mere Toyota.

[Linas.P]

1 minute ago, The-Acre said:

Bentley would be better than a mere Toyota.

And here we coming back to the issue of the BMW Supra... If Supra would be based on LC I would even argue it could presents reasonable option to consider over Bentley, Aston Martin or Ferrari. And it wouldn't be an issue to own it even in such residence, now it isn't comparable and indeed you better of with Bentley if you win the lottery.