Oil Additives

[Cotswold Pete]

Just been wandering around some of the other Lexus forums and came across someone saying Extralube ZX1 is a good oil addtive to cure valve rattle after the car has been stood for while.

Has anyone ever put this stuff into and LS.

Only reason I ask is because many a review of internet swears by it (with one or two dissenters) and say it gives a lift to MPG.

I did once add some to my first LS (not Zx1) and must say did not notice any difference, but where my LS is now standing for up to month at a time have noticed a tiny bit more noise for first few minutes while the oil works its way back over the top of the engine.

Any thoughts, though to be honest probably not going to use any, unless others give it a raving thumbs up.

[Barry14UK]

I think you will find that all manufacturers advise not to add anything to the oil but just follow their specification which may change with well worn engines.  Reports seem to be anecdotal as there is not much evidence of independent tests. Then some engines have a greater tolerance to additives and out of spec oils than others.

[Malc]

1 hour ago, Cotswold Pete said:

noticed a tiny bit more noise for first few minutes while the oil works its way back over

and my knees too !

Malc

sorry, too much attempted humour 

[shanra]

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

Interesting link but could take some time to read it all!

[Cotswold Pete]

On 3/27/2021 at 1:08 AM, shanra said:

Interesting link 

Read snippets of the blog, lots to think about if you wanted to really be an geek on the topic..

Interesting that one of his comments is that synthetic oils tend to bleed off the lifters when engine not used for a while, which then gives you 30 seconds of the car sounding not so good.

The answer is to use conventional oil.  

If you search for '52. General Motor Oil Selection Recommendations for Various Applications'

Then read on down.  I am sure if I had a day or two spare, I might read this whole lot, but will just keep putting in the usual oil, get it changed at services and expect the LS to keep heading towards its 220,000th mile in the next year or two (assuming no more lock-downs).

[shanra]

Hell of a lot to read! I actually put 5w/30 Synthetic Amsoil Signature Series in my 216,000 miles mama as I do a lot of short journeys quite often.

[LexusRbest]

I had a ford escort that ran its main bearings, causing terrible noise and overheating, car was essential daily driver.

I used a litre of slick 50 ,a ptfe oil treatment added to the engine oil as a ‘get me to the end of the month’ repair.

The noise never went away but overheating stopped and car ran for months until I had the time to fix it.

Fast forward to a newish mercedes twin turbo diesel, when I added a  German  fuel additive, that blocked the diesel particulate filter.

Now I use redex in fuel to clear injectors.

I use Ptfe/ teflon oil additives on older high mileage engines,

doesn't quieten them but helps fuel consumption and reduce wear.

i only use a fully synthetic oil in all my engines, if you have ever dipped your mineral oil on a car that has just overheated, it is so thin it is no longer doing its job.

 

 

 

 

[shanra]

I remember using Slick 50 on an Opel Ascona and afterwards on a long journey it would just slow up and stop. I had to wait ten minutes and then it would run again!

[LenT]

3 hours ago, shanra said:

I remember using Slick 50 on an Opel Ascona and afterwards on a long journey it would just slow up and stop. I had to wait ten minutes and then it would run again!

I was intrigued to come across this statement. Firstly because it’s unusual to come across an engine additive that actually stops the engine working.

And secondly because I was the Creative Director of the ad agency that launched Slick 50 in the UK and wrote all the material.

Now this was in 1985 and I wonder what year you had this experience? Although a product called Slick 50 existed in the USA, what was launched in the UK was very different indeed. And really worked – we had the tests to prove it!

The rights to the brand name were acquired by a company called Petrolon UK, run by Harry Toms, who was, I believe, an industrial chemist. The marketing was by Chris Mitchell. We launched in 1985 in the Sunday Papers having stocked it in over 400 Halfords stores – and sold out within days.

What Harry achieved was to completely reformulate the product and reduce the platelet size of the ptfe molecules.  So the only similarity with the US product was the brand name - and possibly still is. I hope that's clear! 

However, in August 1992, Chris sold the marketing rights back to the US company and I certainly can’t confidently state that the unique formulation remained unchanged – to say the least!

But as far as launching the UK version is concerned, we had to present the Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) with compelling supporting evidence before we could run any press, TV or even packaging claims. And obviously we succeeded in doing that!

In fact, with regard to engines slowing down, I recall one practical test we conducted at Mallory Park circuit. We took three ordinary small saloons and treated two with Slick 50. The oil was then drained from all three and they set off in convoy around the circuit at about 40mph. One, incidentally, driven by Roger Clark.

In less than a lap the untreated engine overheated and seized up. The other two continued for 50 laps until Roger said he was bored and had had enough!

I can go into a lot more detail – if anyone’s interested?! It was an interesting product (well, to me anyway) because there were many competitive parties with axes to grind (to coin a phrase) who were desperate to claim Slick 50 didn’t work. And they all failed.

 

[shanra]

Well all I can say is I had no problem with the car before I added the stuff and it went into the mechanics after it did it the first time and they found nothing wrong with the car and concluded it must have been the Slack 50 (sic).

[LenT]

45 minutes ago, shanra said:

Well all I can say is I had no problem with the car before I added the stuff and it went into the mechanics after it did it the first time and they found nothing wrong with the car and concluded it must have been the Slack 50 (sic).

Well not knowing the details, John, I can't really comment much further.  As I said, I can't vouch for the product after 1992 when it was bought back by the US brand owners.  But I can't ever recall even a single instance of the effect you describe. Quite the contrary in fact.

Did the Opel Ascona continue to have the same problem or did it resolve itself?  Because once correctly treated, the UK formulation remained an effective coating for around 100,00 miles in normal use.  So if it was due to the 'Slack50' it wouldn't have gone away.

The only instances in which motorists didn't see a performance improvement were usually associated with not following the highlighted instructions.  Namely, it was essential that the product was introduced only after a full oil and filter change.

I recall the AA distributing a Press Release which claimed they had tested five cars and seen no worthwhile performance improvements. I attended a meeting with Harry Toms and the AA reps. during which Harry asked to see the old oil filters off the test cars.  After a considerable delay, a mechanic turn up to admit that they didn't have the old filters...because they hadn't changed them!

This meant that the ptfe particles would be trapped by the old filter and never even get to the rest of the engine.  Unsurprisingly, the AA never published another Press Release admitting this!

 

[shanra]

It kept doing it always on long journeys and it was added correctly.

[LenT]

41 minutes ago, shanra said:

It kept doing it always on long journeys and it was added correctly.

Well that’s interesting to know John.  But at the risk of labouring the point: Was this the post 1992 product?

 

[LexusRbest]

Opel/vauxhall cars to me are like sheep ......they just want to die!

I have never had a good one......

they don't need slick 50 to do it either!

[Cotswold Pete]

5 hours ago, LexusRbest said:

Opel/vauxhall cars to me are like sheep ......they just want to die!

I have never had a good one......

Had many as company cars, but always had them gone before 70,000 Miles, but they were generally reliable, certainly not wanting to die, even though I thrashed them to within an inch of their lives (that's company cars for you).  When I did own my own 1.6 ltr Cav, got it to 95,000 no problems until some twerp rear ended it.  

I would say like most UK built cars of the 80s/90s, little things always going wrong, even from brand new

[LenT]

11 hours ago, shanra said:

I remember using Slick 50 on an Opel Ascona and afterwards on a long journey it would just slow up and stop. I had to wait ten minutes and then it would run again!

As this is a thread about oil additives, I thought I’d pick this up again.  Actually I don’t think it matters whether it’s the original Slick 50, or the post 1992 version.  I can’t think of any way that an engine additive can produce the effect you obviously- and most annoyingly - experienced.

More to the point, I doubt that your mechanics could either.  I suspect they went for the ‘guilt by association’ method of diagnostics.  

8 hours ago, shanra said:

Well all I can say is I had no problem with the car before I added the stuff and it went into the mechanics after it did it the first time and they found nothing wrong with the car and concluded it must have been the Slack 50 (sic).

So no explanation as to the process by which Slick 50 could actually produce this mileage related failure.  Without that, it’s simply coincidence.

But is there in fact an explanation?  Well, it’s not of much use to you now - but I believe there is.  I have recalled that many years ago when I read the Popular Motoring type magazines, there was a reader’s problem identical to yours that the Magazine solved.  His car performed perfectly on short, local journeys.  Every time he set off on a long journey, the engine would eventually start to lose power until it stuttered to a halt.

After waiting some minutes for the engine to cool down, it would restart and run perfectly.  The solution proved to be almost laughably simple.

It turned out that the cork gasket in the fuel filter bowl before the carburettor was gradually disintegrating.  Small cork particles were being swept along the fuel line to the carburettor.  Eventually they reached the inlet jet...and blocked it.  This starved the engine of fuel until it finally stopped.

With the engine stopped, there was no longer any suction or pump action to move the cork particles on to the jet, so they gradually flowed back down the fuel line.  This enabled the engine to restart and run perfectly on short journeys.

Replacing the gasket and cleaning the fuel line and jet, permanently solved this reader’s problem.

As I say,  bit late for you now.  But at least it exonerates additives.

And why didn’t your mechanics find this fault?  Because it was intermittent and they didn’t look for it.  Blaming the Slick50 that you had put in was a whole lot easier.  And didn’t even warrant an explanation!

[Boosh.]

I remember the Slick 50 launch quite well,  and also Petrolon and Mitchell Marketing (I guess that the name of his company?).  All the earliest product boxes at launch had had any mention of "Teflon" painstakingly covered over with some tiny black stickers. That must have been laborious for someone!

I seem to recall that it wasn't a particularly cheap additive.  I can't actually remember the price, but a gallon of Castrol GTX was around £2.99 from Halfords, as a period reference.

The story at the time (from where? I don't know) was that DuPont, the Teflon brand name owners, were unhappy with their name being used on the Slick 50 product, so it had to be removed.  I never found out any more.  I imagine there was more background story to this?

Some years later, I did try one of your competitor's PTFE products, Nulon, from Australia, in a Honda Prelude.  The instructions were simple, although I don't remember them exactly.  After adding, which you did with the engine running at tickover, the tickover revs rose by 200 or so, which was very encouraging.  But, after a matter of minutes, they had gone back to almost normal, and no significant change to the engine or its mpg was ever noticed.

I remember reports from many, many years before your product launch, of a similar test to your 'Roger Clark' trial, but with Molyslip brand engine oil additive (which was basically molybdenum disulphide in a carrier oil, I believe) and a couple of Hillman Minxes, IIRC.  The results were very similar to yours - one car seized (without additive), and was towed back to base by the other car (which had the additive).  Without oil, the 'Molyslip' car had got hot, but ran fine after it was filled back up with oil, it was claimed.

I think that some 1980s VWs had molybdenum or graphite in the gearbox oil from the factory.  And even now, Moto Guzzi suggest a molybdenum additive is put in certain models of their motorcycle gearboxes when the oil is changed.  Not sure this really relates to anything Lexus have ever made though!

[shanra]

6 hours ago, LenT said:

As this is a thread about oil additives, I thought I’d pick this up again.  Actually I don’t think it matters whether it’s the original Slick 50, or the post 1992 version.  I can’t think of any way that an engine additive can produce the effect you obviously- and most annoyingly - experienced.

More to the point, I doubt that your mechanics could either.  I suspect they went for the ‘guilt by association’ method of diagnostics.  

So no explanation as to the process by which Slick 50 could actually produce this mileage related failure.  Without that, it’s simply coincidence.

But is there in fact an explanation?  Well, it’s not of much use to you now - but I believe there is.  I have recalled that many years ago when I read the Popular Motoring type magazines, there was a reader’s problem identical to yours that the Magazine solved.  His car performed perfectly on short, local journeys.  Every time he set off on a long journey, the engine would eventually start to lose power until it stuttered to a halt.

After waiting some minutes for the engine to cool down, it would restart and run perfectly.  The solution proved to be almost laughably simple.

It turned out that the cork gasket in the fuel filter bowl before the carburettor was gradually disintegrating.  Small cork particles were being swept along the fuel line to the carburettor.  Eventually they reached the inlet jet...and blocked it.  This starved the engine of fuel until it finally stopped.

With the engine stopped, there was no longer any suction or pump action to move the cork particles on to the jet, so they gradually flowed back down the fuel line.  This enabled the engine to restart and run perfectly on short journeys.

Replacing the gasket and cleaning the fuel line and jet, permanently solved this reader’s problem.

As I say,  bit late for you now.  But at least it exonerates additives.

And why didn’t your mechanics find this fault?  Because it was intermittent and they didn’t look for it.  Blaming the Slick50 that you had put in was a whole lot easier.  And didn’t even warrant an explanation!

It may well be that was the problem, who knows? The flipside of additives http://ultimatesyntheticoil.com/facts_about_aftermarket_oil_additives

[LenT]

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">Well remembered, Mike. I’ll try and answer your questions – although we are talking over 35 years ago! And I must emphasise that I cannot speak for current products of the same name!

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">And now I must apologise. I think you've asked for what is going to be a rather long post!

15 hours ago, Boosh. said:

I remember the Slick 50 launch quite well,  and also Petrolon and Mitchell Marketing (I guess that the name of his company?). 

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">Correct. Chris Mitchell’s Mitchell Marketing was based in Leicester. He was already distributing such products as Hammerite and Waxoyl and later expanded with stick-on bullet holes and the Knuckle Buffer – plastic finger tips designed as a door edge protector but more usually seen poking out of the boot lid and scaring traffic wardens!

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">All the earliest product boxes at launch had had any mention of "Teflon" painstakingly covered over with some tiny black stickers. That must have been laborious for someone!

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">I think some of the very early packaging may have came over from the States. But it obviously didn't last long. In the year following launch we obviously changed it to reflect the product changes, because I see in 1986 that it won a marketing industry ‘Best Packaged Product’ award!

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">I seem to recall that it wasn't a particularly cheap additive.  I can't actually remember the price, but a gallon of Castrol GTX was around £2.99 from Halfords, as a period reference.

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">I’m looking at a 750ml box – sufficient for a 3l engine, - and the Halford’s sticker is for £15.49. So yes, it was substantially more than other products on the shelf.

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">The story at the time (from where? I don't know) was that DuPont, the Teflon brand name owners, were unhappy with their name being used on the Slick 50 product, so it had to be removed.  I never found out any more.  I imagine there was more background story to this?

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">As I understand it, DuPont didn’t like their Teflon brand, normally associated with cooking utensils, being linked to any engine lubricants. However, they obviously didn’t feel too badly about it as they continued to supply such companies knowing that that was exactly what it was going to be used for!

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">Some years later, I did try one of your competitor's PTFE products, Nulon, from Australia, in a Honda Prelude. 

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">I too had a Prelude – for 15 years and 120K miles. And what a great car it was!

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">As for Nulon, I remember them well. They had a UK rep who went around the Slick50 dealers trying to convert them. To aid this he was using material that claimed to show a car treated with Nulon which had beapple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">eapple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">n driven across Australia without engine oil.

Unfortunately, the Australian Slick 50 representative recognised it as the same car that had previously been treated by a Slick 50 dealer and subjected to a similar, earlier test!

We suggested that even if the second treatment was indeed effective (we made no claim that it wasn't) the results may have been affected by the earlier Slick 50 treatment.

Somewhat to my surprise, I see that Nulon is still around.

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">The apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">{Nulon} apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">instructions were simple, although I don't remember them apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">exactlyapple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">.  After adding, which you did with the engine running at tickover, the tickover revs rose by 200 or so, which was very encouraging.  But, after a matter of minutes, they had gone back to almost normal, and no significant change to the engine or its mpg was ever noticed.

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">I think Nulon instructions are still simple. I checked on their website and they say it can be added at any time, but best after an oil change. No mention of the oil filter.

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">The Slick50 instructions were not simple. You had to shake the container vigorously for about 3 minutes, change the oil apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">andapple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol"> the filter, and idle the engine for at least 30 minutes, revving occasionally. What then happened in the days before apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">chip-controlled apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">engine control systems was that tickover increased dramatically. I think in my case, apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">a Toyota MR2 at the time,apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol"> it went from about 800 rpm to 1200-1300, so you had to constantly reduce the tickover speed apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">back to normal- where it stayed.

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">Iapple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">t was significant because the only plausible cause was that the friction levels within the engine were being reduced.

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">Iapple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">ncidentally, Slick50 then was onlyapple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol"> recommended for well run-in engines, apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol"> not as a magic cure-all for old engines.

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">I notice that some of the self-appointed pundits cite the need to shake the container as an example of its inability to perform. The argument appears to be that if it forms a ’sludge’ in the container, so it will in the sump. Firstly, this ignores that fact that it’s not an emulsion or a homogeneous solution. The oil is merely a carrier for the particles.

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">Secondly, the ptfe platelets are denser than the oil molecules, so will gradually sink through it. Thirdly, by running the engine, or driving the vehicle, after introducing the product, it will be immediately distributed around the engine so that the majority of the particles will have been bonded on to the metal surfaces before the oil stops circulating.

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">The amount of ‘active’ material in the oil was actually surprisingly small, because the coating it produced was only bonded to the moving parts.

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">I also notice claims that the ‘particles’ would clog up pipes and filters. Not so. The platelets were considerably less than the standard 5 microns of a new oil filter, through which they would pass easily, and formed a layer of between 1 and 2 microns on the metal surfaces. The platelets were attracted electrostatically (as I recall) to the metal and then only bonded to the surface through the heat and pressure generated by the moving parts. So it didn’t coat pipes, wire screens and the like, as seems to be a popular claim.

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">As I said, however, I don’t know if any of this still applies to the current product of the same name.

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">I hope this has been of interest, Mike - if you’re still awake!

[Boosh.]

Thanks for the comprehensive answer! 

And not too long at all  - sometimes I venture over to the 'Bob Is The Oil Guy' website.  That one site must account for about 25% of the entire content of the internet. Finishing a topic on there can take several weeks.

I have had an interest with fuel and oil additives since long before even my FS1E days, so it is good to hear how this product was viewed from the producer's sales/technical perspective, which is so rarely seen.

To me, fascinating, and with a bit of nostalgia thrown in!

[Tinonline]

It’s all very confusing and like the vaccine assessment turning around.

Lots of “experts” about. Self-proclaimed scientists.

Most oils are excellent quality. Use as recommended...why use an additive to compensate for engine wear? Maybe the engine needs some maintenance.

All accounts state fully synthetic is superior to conventional oils. How on earth does a liquid stick to moving parts over static...please 🧐 oh yes we have a specialist who can blind with science.

Cars don’t like being left...even over a really cold weekend. It’s not just the engine waking up...it’s the pressure in the hydraulics, fuel system...noisy injection tapping out like a knackered engine, the VTI  waking up too. Not to mention the suspension, drive train...and us-the driver. Oh and the pulleys the wheels and belts.

Bah humbug. 😉

 

[LenT]

On 4/8/2021 at 2:40 AM, shanra said:

It may well be that was the problem, who knows? The flipside of additives http://ultimatesyntheticoil.com/facts_about_aftermarket_oil_additives

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">Apologies for not getting back sooner, John. But you raise some interesting points.

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">It may well be that was the problem, who knows?

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">Who knows, indeed John?

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">Well on the one hand we have a problem that’s diagnosed, rectified and never recurs.

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">On the other, it would appear, no diagnosis, an unfair and unexplained attempt to blame the customer apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">and a product - apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">and apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">still apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">no solution.

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">This magazine item stuck in my mind because at the time I was driving cars that could have fallen victim to the same problem. Apart from that, it was a logical and elegant example of problem solving without resorting to unexplained associations. apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">After all, correlation doesn't imply causation!

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">But let me tell you where I’m coming from, as the expression has it. Apart from Slick50, I’ve also been involved with Esso, BP, Castrol and Amoco and I’ve met quite a few (self proclaimed🙂 ) tribologists. I cannot ever recall any of them admitting that their products would be improved by the addition of an after-market additive. Whatever parameters they were then working within - be it technical, performance or budgetary – they were content that they had created an optimised product.

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">So, to your link.  I haven't had time to go through it in detail, but perhaps my first impressions will suffice.

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">http://ultimatesyntheticoil.com/facts_about_aftermarket_oil_addititives

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">Firstly, I see the site’s headed with theapple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol"> claim ‘Ultimate Synthetic Oil’. Well, as with BP’s Ultimate Fuels, it may sound impressive but it’s not a term I would ever have used. Where do you go in product development from there? Ultimate Plus? Super Ultimate? I just don’t get it.

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">Anyway, Amsoil is not one I’ve ever heard of and that’s possibly because it’s a direct marketing operation and doesn’t appear on the shelves or websites of relevant retailers.

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">So unlike Slick50, which appears to have a considerable product range in, for example, Halford’s, Amsoil turns up on two web platforms sold by distributors, such as the one run by Brian & Melodie Dobben that you’ve linked to. Dobben seems to devote a huge amount of effort rubbishing Slick50 which, despite it not being an actual oil, he obviously feels is a major competitor. And understandably so.

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">If you're a relatively small player in a field then you compare yourself with the major player and, as I understand it, Slick50 is still the brand leader in its market.

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">Naturally enough, his challenges are a bit selective and I think he also questions why Slick50’s current owners don’apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">t reply? apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">Well, why would they? apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">Amsoil’s sales are irrelevant to Slick50’s.

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">Scroll far enough down the page and eventually you get to its main purpose – which is to puff the product he’s trying to sell. I note that he refers to its various additives – which he declines to list – as providing all the many efficacious effects that he earlier dismissed.

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">In his position, I would probably do the same!

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">Unlike the major refiners, who can provide their own base oils, blenders such as Amsoil have to buy everything in. So they source a base oil and then trawl the market for Viscosity Modifiers and Additive Packages. apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">They can buy either off-the=shelf formulations or develop market specific solutions that they wish to target – invariably budget driven.

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">From then on, it’s all down to marketing. And sometimes the marketing budget exceeds the product development budget. Especially if you’ve already produced the ‘Ultimate’!

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">So would I use an oil additive? Well, I did use the original Slick 50 because I knew the background development, saw all test procedures and the many failed attempts to discredit it. And personally experienced the real world effects of friction reduction.

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">Would I use the current version? Probably not.

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">Finally - you’ll be glad to read - and as you kindly provided an informative link, here’s apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">an article that seems as good as any on the relationship between oil companies, engine oils and after-market additives.

apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol">https://www.oilem.com/blog/oil-additives-our-view/

 

[shanra]

I shall not get into an argument about it. I would never use an additive like Slick 50 and that's about the height of it! I will no doubt not change your view on it and you will no doubt not change mine.

[LenT]

19 minutes ago, shanra said:

I shall not get into an argument about it. I would never use an additive like Slick 50 and that's about the height of it! I will no doubt not change your view on it and you will no doubt not change mine.

Probably my fault John, but I suspect you didn't get to the end of my post.

51 minutes ago, LenT said:

Would I use the current version? Probably not.

That was my 'ultimate' conclusion.  

[Malc]

................. and ultimately it's in the wear and tear and credibility of the manufactured engine  .........  mine's covered a mere 232k miles and never to my knowledge had any engine oil additives in its long and illustrious life ........ using Wilko own semi-synthetic engine oil these past 10 years and 110k miles and usually supermarket own simple unleaded petrol

Am I worried about oil additives and if they can give me longevity and whatever else ............  certainly not ........  why should I, it's all in the eye of the beholder and user 

Malc