Lexus Heritage

[Micholas]

Now I know Lexus aren’t too fussed about keeping their older classic cars on the road.. parts availability even for essential parts is very poor in comparison to Mercedes, BMW, Ford etc. Who still produce a number of low selling parts, even body panels for their 60’s and 70’s cars... however today took the biscuit even by Lexus’ standards..

I firstly called the Lexus dealership in Tunbridge Wells to book in and get a quote for my LS430 to get a gearbox oil change.. to my amazement I got a call back from the service advisor saying.. and I quote.. ‘the car is too old really. We wouldn’t want to get involved as it may do more harm than good, so we’re going to decline the job’ 😳

This wasn’t an engine rebuild.. or anything intense where possible NLA parts might be involved. This was a basic gearbox oil change. I was in shock, as any other main dealer for a car brand would bite your arm off to charge over inflated labour rates, let alone a so called luxury car brand. 
 

I dismissed it as being just a bad dealership so called the Battersea site asking for the same job... again they couldn’t be more disinterested. I’ve called twice now chasing the quote and availability to book the car in, and I’m pretty certain they have no interest in taking on the job.  
 

Ultimately it’s not the end of the world as I can get any decent garage to do the job. It’s just worrying how disinterested the dealer network is in their heritage cars. Even a car that’s from 2001 which for me would be still be quite new-ish.. but Lexus really don’t want to know. 

[royoftherovers]

Tunbridge Wells is part of Motorline Group Nick. Can you be more specific re the Battersea address please as it is not one I recognise?Thanks.

[Micholas]

It’s just down the road from the dogs home.. definitely a different franchise to the Tunbridge Wells site but still a main dealer nonetheless. If you google Lexus Battersea, you’ll see them.

[royoftherovers]

8 minutes ago, Micholas said:

It’s just down the road from the dogs home.. definitely a different franchise to the Tunbridge Wells site but still a main dealer nonetheless. If you google Lexus Battersea, you’ll see them.

Thanks Micholas. I see that it is owned by Inchcape and is  a SERVICE CENTRE only.

I do not see either the Motorline or the Inchape Group views as being representative of the UK Lexus view.

There must be at least a couple of Lexus Indies down there who would bite your hand off to service or maintain your Lexus.

[royoftherovers]

20 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

Thanks Micholas. I see that it is owned by Inchcape and is  a SERVICE CENTRE only.

I do not see either the Motorline or the Inchape Group views as being representative of the UK Lexus view.

There must be at least a couple of Lexus Indies down there who would bite your hand off to service or maintain your Lexus.

Have a look through this Micholas.

Lexus Indie Garages (1) (1).docx

[Micholas]

Thanks a lot for this Roy. Much appreciated.

The more I’m researching this, the more I’m coming across advice saying not to touch the ATF on Lexus’ if the mileage is high and oil dirty. Apparently it causes gearbox slippage as you’re dislodging general grime that’s built up on the gears that’s stopping it from slipping at the moment. Not sure how true that is as I’ve changed gearbox oil on many an old car without issue. 

[royoftherovers]

12 hours ago, Micholas said:

Thanks a lot for this Roy. Much appreciated.

The more I’m researching this, the more I’m coming across advice saying not to touch the ATF on Lexus’ if the mileage is high and oil dirty. Apparently it causes gearbox slippage as you’re dislodging general grime that’s built up on the gears that’s stopping it from slipping at the moment. Not sure how true that is as I’ve changed gearbox oil on many an old car without issue. 

If the change are seamless and smooth, I`d leave well alone. But I have no experience with LS models.

Others will comment I am sure.

[Malc]

had a partial change done a few years ago on mine ...  2 ltrs I think and maybe at 180k miles ?

Just to " freshen " things up a little ....  my indy advised against a greater change volume, nor frequency ..  maybe just his gut feeling at the time .......  I don't think there was any science involved in the thinking behind it other than maybe a little fear syndrome !

And all as expressed on here from time to time 

Malc

[rich1068]

2ltr-ish drain and fill every 36k according to the service book for my MK3 LS400. Does it mention it in the LS430 book? Regardless, if there's no record of it being done before and the gears are shifting fine I'd think hard before doing it. And really if there's no record of it being done then you'd need to drain and fill at least half a dozen times in succession to make any real difference to the quality of the fluid.

[Howplum]

When I bought my 80,000 mile 1996 LS400 last year I asked the Lexus dealer how much they would charge for a fluid change, as preventative maintenance, but they recommended leaving it alone if the gearchanges were OK, which they are. At least on the older models the fluid can be checked for colour and smell, which I read somewhere can't be done on the later models.

 

[rich1068]

Mine has patchy main dealer history but it does have a couple of stamps from Lexus on the Isle of Man around the age and mileage they would have drained and filled as a matter of course. Mine has now done 65k and so I did what I assume would have been its second drain and fill last week. What came out was still quite red.

[Micholas]

For the most part the gear changes are seamless. But I have noticed at lower revs when the engines cold I do notice the shifts. Popped into the local Toyota dealership this morning to pick up some new floor mat clips and they seemed quite happy to do the job. They’re calling me on Monday with a quote. 

[Micholas]

One thing to also note is that main dealers have generic minor and major services across all models. And the major does not include a gearbox oil change. Not sure how long this has been the case as I’m new to Lexus’ and not sure whether this differs depending on franchise.. but my recent full service at main dealer didn’t include gearbox oil, diff oil or spark plugs. When I queried it, they showed me a sheet with what’s included in the minor and major irrespective of model. So I’m guessing if you want these done, it’s an ad-hoc job that you request and pay for outside of the service.

[royoftherovers]

It`s always been the case. If you have no need to do it (as per my earlier post ) then it`s your money so do as you wish and keep us informed please.

[MLW]

I took 2.2 litres out of my gearbox at 80,000 miles and put the same in again. Always use genuine Toyota oil. Mine has a dipstick so can be sucked out. No issues. Probably changing a little ever 1-2 years is best. On my old Mercedes E class 124 I changed the oil ever 15k and oil and filter ever 30k. When I sold it at 148, 000 miles the gearbox was still silky smooth. It also used Dexron 111 so the oil was cheap. Filter and oil seal was about £10 at Eurocar parts. You could even drainn the torque convertor easily. Then they all went 'sealed for life', i.e. might go at 80k but then it is not our problem.

[ColinBarber]

I'd recommend you replace the radiator as a priority over the ATF. The LS430 has been known to have failures of the transmission fluid cooler within the radiator resulting in coolant entering the transmission.

[ColinBarber]

On 3/20/2021 at 7:26 PM, Micholas said:

Not sure how long this has been the case as I’m new to Lexus’ and not sure whether this differs depending on franchise.. but my recent full service at main dealer didn’t include gearbox oil, diff oil or spark plugs. When I queried it, they showed me a sheet with what’s included in the minor and major irrespective of model. So I’m guessing if you want these done, it’s an ad-hoc job that you request and pay for outside of the service.

Plugs, diff oil etc. are at specific intervals in addition to the regular major service items. Your service booklet should clearly list what needs doing and when.

[LexusRbest]

First job on ANY just acquired LS 430 has to be installing a separate transmission  cooler.....

Even with Full Lexus Service History coolant can corrode into transmission heat exchanger in bottom of radiator.

Aftermarket Kit is about £100 from Paul Frost and is easy home install.

My tuppence worth, as shade tree mechanic, when re-filling 6 speed transmission after changing filter ,fill from filler plug on side of gbox same amount as you drained out , and then remove check level plug in pan, if tube inside is in place, it should run out until level is correct. I do this cold.

I know there is a toyota/lexus measure at temperature ‘ceremony ‘ but if level is correct at cold, the hot fluid expansion is not going to hurt. In my experience of Town driving and several high speed tours have shown no detriment to smooth shifting.

Also These iridium plugs do 80-100k miles ,these days a regular plug change is not so important,.....you are just showing your age........when I was a boy...every 6000 miles....gapped and cleaned....

[BigBoomer]

On 3/28/2021 at 9:06 AM, LexusRbest said:

First job on ANY just acquired LS 430 has to be installing a separate transmission  cooler.....
Even with Full Lexus Service History coolant can corrode into transmission heat exchanger in bottom of radiator.
Aftermarket Kit is about £100 from Paul Frost and is easy home install.

£115. 
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LEXUS-LS430-GS430-SC430-Auto-GEARBOX-OIL-COOLER-UPGRADE-NEW/203109597302

[Malc]

3 hours ago, BigBoomer said:

£115. 

just one of those things when you buy a fantastic car that needs regular, well, every 100k miles attention in this area 

btw the Ls400 doesn't require this level of maintenance thankfully 

Malc

[Mikaelse]

On 3/18/2021 at 7:36 PM, Micholas said:

Now I know Lexus aren’t too fussed about keeping their older classic cars on the road.. parts availability even for essential parts is very poor in comparison to Mercedes, BMW, Ford etc. Who still produce a number of low selling parts, even body panels for their 60’s and 70’s cars... however today took the biscuit even by Lexus’ standards..

I firstly called the Lexus dealership in Tunbridge Wells to book in and get a quote for my LS430 to get a gearbox oil change.. to my amazement I got a call back from the service advisor saying.. and I quote.. ‘the car is too old really. We wouldn’t want to get involved as it may do more harm than good, so we’re going to decline the job’ 😳

This wasn’t an engine rebuild.. or anything intense where possible NLA parts might be involved. This was a basic gearbox oil change. I was in shock, as any other main dealer for a car brand would bite your arm off to charge over inflated labour rates, let alone a so called luxury car brand. 
 

I dismissed it as being just a bad dealership so called the Battersea site asking for the same job... again they couldn’t be more disinterested. I’ve called twice now chasing the quote and availability to book the car in, and I’m pretty certain they have no interest in taking on the job.  
 

Ultimately it’s not the end of the world as I can get any decent garage to do the job. It’s just worrying how disinterested the dealer network is in their heritage cars. Even a car that’s from 2001 which for me would be still be quite new-ish.. but Lexus really don’t want to know. 

I think they may have a point even If their explanation sounded like disinterest. Explain the risk and give advice but let the customer decide if he/she wants to take the risk would have been more appropriate.

IF the oil has not been changed for a very long time and  many miles there may be a lot of wear particles collected  here and there in the corners and on surfaces.  If you do a oil exchange this gunk can come loose and get stuck in new sensitive places due to the cleaning additives in the new ATF. Gumming up Solenoids and what not.

Same thing can happen if you change engineoil in a very neglected car with cheap and old oil in it hence plenty of gunk deposits everywhere.

I can imagine that the dealer had one experience too many of customers saying. "You worked on it , now it does not work, fix it ".  
I heard about this nasty risk only after I changed very old ATF (probably 20 years) in my LS400 at 90k miles. It went well.  Luck or normal, No idea. . After the exchange I do the 2 liter drain and fill every year. Works well. 

[BigBoomer]

On 3/29/2021 at 1:24 PM, Malc said:

just one of those things when you buy a fantastic car that needs regular, well, every 100k miles attention in this area 

btw the Ls400 doesn't require this level of maintenance thankfully 

Malc

Not once the external cooler is fitted. Then it's good for life. 

[Cotswold Pete]

On 3/19/2021 at 11:01 PM, Micholas said:

I’m coming across advice saying not to touch the ATF on Lexus’ if the mileage is high and oil dirty. 

When I got my 400 (Mk4), the ATF was smelly and in need of sorting.  Not because of any problems with gear changes, but it is not good to run with oil that has been sheered of it's long-chain molecules which aid lubrication at the mechanical interface. I ran it for about 16K before I got off my backside and put my hand in my pocket.

I took mine to an ATF specialist in Gloucester and had the full monty - clean out the torque convertor and then fill up.  Not much more than having a garage do a few oil changes over a few services.

It made no noticeable difference to gear shifts, and 60K miles later (with no further ATF oil changes) the oil is starting to look a little off-colour, it does not smell as it did when I bought the car, but I reckon another 10K before I get my wallet out and do the same.

Like you I had heard a full clean removes the 'junk' that helps with engagement of metal surfaces in the transmission, which I am not sure about as a theory. Any non-lubricating particulate is 'surely', not desireable.

FINALLY - the garage that has done my MOTs for years, also refused to do a simple ATF drain and top up, they said not sure what was involved.  Made me think back to ATF specialists and find another place to do next MOT in June

 

[Micholas]

Thanks for all your comments. Firstly I replaced the radiator as soon as I got the car, so no issues there.

I took the car to Toyota and they did an ATF change with no fuss or issues. Took about 2 litres out. I’ve probably put a couple of hundred miles on it since then and as always it drives like a dream. Still get the hard shifts when cold, but meh I can live with that. 

[Mikaelse]

13 hours ago, Micholas said:

Thanks for all your comments. Firstly I replaced the radiator as soon as I got the car, so no issues there.

I took the car to Toyota and they did an ATF change with no fuss or issues. Took about 2 litres out. I’ve probably put a couple of hundred miles on it since then and as always it drives like a dream. Still get the hard shifts when cold, but meh I can live with that. 

Just remember that the drain and refill method only changes a fraction of the oil. The total volume is 9.4 US quarts or 8.9 liters in the 5 speed trans.  However it is only possible to drain out about 2 liters at any one time due to that much of the ATF is in the torque converter which can not be directly drained.  HOWEVER I notised that if the car is lifted up in the front ( for a DIY job ) for a few weeks you get a lot more out. Up to ballpark 4 quarts. I was surprised !
IF you do the common drain and refill thing and drive around a bit to mix the ATF between you will need to do a number of drains and refill to change most of the ATF . Every time you do it you will reduce the amount of old oil to   (8.9-2)/8.9 =>  77.5 % of what it was before the last drain/refill . Hence if you do it  6 times you will still have 0.775^6 = 21.6 % of  the very old fluid left. 

One drain and refill every year or engine oils swap after that 6 times routine should be good enough and not so much work. I use the method of weighing exactly on a kitchen scale what comes out and refilling exactly the same. That way I do not need to fiddle with getting the exact right level which is a bit time consuming since the level should be checked following a certain procedure. 
AND my probably never trans fluid serviced at the time 20 year old LS400 1995 with 90k miles started to shift smooth and nice again after changing the dark and somewhat dirty Fluid.  Only problem was the old fluid.  

I use Mobil ATF 3309 delivered from Germany which is equivalent enough to TOYOTA IV according to what I have found . The Mobil ATF can be had for less than half price ( about 8£ per liter) and I have used a total of more than 30 liter in my two LS400 so it did matter cost wise.