RX450h stolen...how?

[lfoggy]

Back in the day, before CAN Bus and ECUs, a common way to protect a car from theft from ‘hotwiring’ was to fit a unique anti-theft device. A common example was to interrupt the low-tension circuit to the coils with a simple two-pole switch hidden somewhere in the cabin. Car would simply not start, and even a mechanically literate thief would have to spend hours working out why. The effectiveness of this was due to the unique nature of the deterrent (and probably by the fact that cars were rubbish back then and didn't start half the time anyway).

Surely there must be opportunities for this in a modern car? For example, the accelerator pedal must input a single via a rheostat to the ECU. Can you not interrupt this by a simple switch hidden in the cabin? Thief may start car, but accelerator pedal would not work so unable to drive off. Obviously, this would only work if it was unique. The moment someone sells a system that does this, all the thieves know….

Probably many reasons why this won't work but any thoughts?

[Linas.P]

Yes, but likewise back in the day all the thieves knew all the common "hidden switch" locations and would cycle through them within a minute.

The only advantage doing that today would be that nowadays thief do not expect such "antique" tricks so maybe not going to be prepared to look for the switch or know possible places for it.

[ColinBarber]

12 hours ago, lfoggy said:

For example, the accelerator pedal must input a single via a rheostat to the ECU. Can you not interrupt this by a simple switch hidden in the cabin?

Yes that would work but it would produce a fault code unless careful which would point to where the problem lies - which may not be a problem but the thieves probably have diagnostic equipment with them if they are going to try and programme a new key and disable the immobiliser. 

In a modern Toyota/Lexus with no mechanical wire backup there are two independent potentiometers in the pedal assembly and the ECU monitors both - if they deviate from one another too much you will get an error code and the ECU can probably determine which one is faulty and will continue to operate with just one - so you need to make sure you disable both.

The system can also detect high and low voltage errors - for example fully closed is 1v and fully open is 4v. If you break the circuit you get 0v at the ECU and receive a sensor under voltage error. If you put the signal high to 5v supply you get an over voltage error. So you need to inject a 1v signal on both circuits to avoid an error code/warning light and disable the pedal.

 

There are plenty of other options where you can interrupt a circuit. EFI relay circuit, fuel pump relay circuit, crank sensor, brake pedal switch which allows shift lock release, gear level circuit etc. etc.

 

[Linas.P]

As well there are simply secondary immobilisers... they work similar to how key works, but the difference is that their radio frequencies are different from what thieves may expect and many even use dozen frequencies at once making it very difficult to boost the correct frequency to start the car. On top of that - unlike the key even if thieves starts the car and manages to drive off, the immobiliser will cut engine as soon as it out of range. Even cloned keys would not help.

In principle those immobilisers are no different from switch turning-off particular critical function, the only difference is that you don't need to flip the switch in the car, so there is no way of disabling immobiliser from the car, you simply have to have immobiliser chip inside the car and for it to work at all times. And as far as I know they interrupt multiple different circuits at once.

All the Luxury cars I ever rented (and I only rent luxury cars) had additional immobilisers and they are very sensitive. Say if you get out of the car just to pay for parking, they cut engine out immediately. Obviously, it is very annoying when aftermarket immobiliser malfunction in the middle of winter 300 miles away from home... guess how I know!

So the solutions are there, but as we already discussed, whenever any of them would work will depend on how determined the thief are.

[runsgrateasanut]

Guess this may not be possible on modern Cars but had something similar on my 1934 Riley. The Battery was in the boot and the cable ran into a Switch knob behind the Drivers seat.  As it was a push button start  it needed a hidden switch. A Boat switch with plastic key is an alternative to the metal one here used. Where to hide? thats the Q.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUhXLsrZiE0

 

[LenT]

As an additional irritant to would-be thieves I do make a practice of dead locking my IS250 every time I leave it.

Obviously I ensure there’s no-one inside at the time!  No doubt there are ways to simply defeat deadlocks, if not for purely safety reasons.  But it buys a little time, I imagine.  And no thief likes to encounter unexpected problems.

To borrow a phrase from elsewhere: Every little helps.

[royoftherovers]

Anaconda sleeping inside.....might deter those who can read and know what an Anaconda is !

[Bluesman]

28 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Anaconda sleeping inside.....might deter those who can read and know what an Anaconda is !

Anacondas or water boas are a group of large snakes of the genus Eunectes.

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, LenT said:

Obviously I ensure there’s no-one inside at the time!  No doubt there are ways to simply defeat deadlocks, if not for purely safety reasons.  But it buys a little time, I imagine.  And no thief likes to encounter unexpected problems.

We are speculating how this particular vehicle was stolen but I don't imagine it was done by breaking a window and opening the door from the inside which the deadlocks prevent.

Possibly a relay attack, possibly got onto a BUS and used diagnostic equipment to unlock/program a key via wiring in the engine bay (which Lexus aren't particularly vulnerable to), possibly a cloned key that was done days/weeks/months ago.

 

One thing to check is whether your mechanical key will operate the deadlocks - on some Lexus vehicles that is possible, on others not. You don't want to deadlock and then find you have no way into the vehicle if the Battery goes flat.

[lfoggy]

What about disabling the car mechanically without involving the CANbus system at all. A simple valve in the fuel line would do it.  This could be located anywhere between the tank and the engine and could be operated mechanically or electrically via a remote switch. No CANbus error codes and no amount of CANbus diagnostics or electronic trickery would detect it. Car would start but would 'run out of petrol' within a minute. Hard to see how that would not work.

[Phil xxkr]

Hello all , I did post this earlier but maybe it got lost; does anyone on here have any experience with the 104 tracker from Rewire Security on amazon ? The description reads well, it's practical and highly affordable. I particularly like the, "designed in the UK and based in Bristol" label. After reading all these posts about thefts I am inclined to be a bit more pro-active Cheers Phil

[Barry14UK]

Some of the measures here might be developed to deter  thieves from stealing a particular car so they would try ones less well protected.  But that is still not a satisfactory situation because insurance losses on those stolen are still going to be spread among all drivers.  What is needed is for some/more 'bait cars' like they have in the USA where after driving a short distance the cars can be remotely stopped, the doors locked and pictures taken of the thieves who would be tracked and arrested.  Certainly, this would take Police resources and at a time when they have become involved in a lot of other areas.  However, if these guys are caught and locked up, it minimises the incidence of the crime and if those caught are given heavy sentences which are well publicised, it may deter others from attempting this crime. 

[royoftherovers]

33 minutes ago, Barry14UK said:

Some of the measures here might be developed to deter  thieves from stealing a particular car so they would try ones less well protected.  But that is still not a satisfactory situation because insurance losses on those stolen are still going to be spread among all drivers.  What is needed is for some/more 'bait cars' like they have in the USA where after driving a short distance the cars can be remotely stopped, the doors locked and pictures taken of the thieves who would be tracked and arrested.  Certainly, this would take Police resources and at a time when they have become involved in a lot of other areas.  However, if these guys are caught and locked up, it minimises the incidence of the crime and if those caught are given heavy sentences which are well publicised, it may deter others from attempting this crime. 

Nice thoughts Barry, but why not simply apprehend the thieves as they remain locked in the vehicle ?

No need for cameras etc as by their very presence in the locked vehicle, they condemn themselves.

[LenT]

3 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

We are speculating how this particular vehicle was stolen but I don't imagine it was done by breaking a window and opening the door from the inside which the deadlocks prevent.

Neither do I.  I should have made it clearer that I was commenting on general security on my Lexus.

3 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

One thing to check is whether your mechanical key will operate the deadlocks - on some Lexus vehicles that is possible, on others not. You don't want to deadlock and then find you have no way into the vehicle if the battery goes flat.

Good point.  So I thought I’d check it out.  The good news is that it does operate the deadlocks.

However in the copious small print additional notes in the manual, I came across the warning that if the alarm happens to be set, it could cause it to sound.

It does!

Note to self: Must ask neighbours why they didn’t rush out to check on my car when alarm sounded. 😊

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, Barry14UK said:

What is needed is for some/more 'bait cars' like they have in the USA where after driving a short distance the cars can be remotely stopped, the doors locked and pictures taken of the thieves who would be tracked and arrested. 

Situation in UK is different from US. I agree with your first statement that we need to work on fundamental issue of car theft in UK rather than looking after own car only.

However, the bait tactic would not work in UK... maybe in some particular areas, but as a whole it would not work. The US tactic is focused on opportunistic attacks, joy riders, drug addicts and are strategically placed in ghettos and poor neighbourhoods. The cars they plant there are usually cheap cars which are known to be easy to steal. The cars are stolen there to go to commit further crimes in rich areas, gang violence, drive by shootings etc. not necessary because they are valuable by themselves. Don't forget that inequality in US is much more staggering than here.

In UK attacks are targeted to specific car model, for specific order and are highly sophisticated and organised. As such it would not be possible to plant the car, because you don't know what is required by particular gang. Sure if we just go by general trend and plant few expensive german SUVs, some performance cars like RSs, AMGs etc. that would be good start, but importantly they would stand out as sore thumb... generally in UK you cannot park just anywhere you like (like in US), what are you proposing? to park on somebodies drive way? and if not then the random car on the street just going to look suspicious. If it is suspicious to us, it will be double suspicious for thieves...

[Linas.P]

2 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

Hello all , I did post this earlier but maybe it got lost; does anyone on here have any experience with the 104 tracker from Rewire Security on Amazon ? The description reads well, it's practical and highly affordable. I particularly like the, "designed in the UK and based in Bristol" label. After reading all these posts about thefts I am inclined to be a bit more pro-active Cheers Phil

Are you suggesting UK made goods are better? Most likely not the case...

Key for trackers is not the tracker itself, but the company fitting it and recovering the vehicle. The reason why something like Automatics work is because they fit trackers so well that even after ripping the car completely apart thieves could not find it + they are professionals and can find and recover the vehicle 24/7... but for that reason you paying hefty subscription fee. 

In short - any standalone trackers are useless... what would you do even if you know where you car is? Take taxi and go there with kitchen knife? Call police? Have you watched my videos? Police 100% going to just ignore it.

So the only option is to pay expensive subscription. 

Other "pro-active" option is immobiliser... that is as well better than tracker, because it means your car could not be moved away... instead of trying to recover it at later time... or parts of it. 

3 hours ago, lfoggy said:

What about disabling the car mechanically without involving the CANbus system at all. 

As I have already described... after market immobilisers are highly effective, sometimes even little bit too effective. So there is no reason to invent the wheel.

[PeterI]

On 3/9/2021 at 8:44 PM, ColinBarber said:

I'm not aware of Lexus doing anything to address relay attacks yet. I don't believe they use motion sensing keys on any vehicle.

I believe the Toyota Supra has passed the Thatcham relay attack tests in early 2020. I'm guessing this is a motion sensor in the Key fob so maybe Lexus uses this on newer vehicles.

I put the key into sleep mode by pushing unlock twice while holding down lock (the LED flashes twice) and you can't open the door until you push one of the buttons. There is also a setting somewhere that turns off keyless entry but then you need to put the fob next to the starter button to start which sounds like a pain.

I also have the Vonneti "business man premium" blocker box which definitely degrades the range of the key to around 5-10cm from the car (they no longer produce this model) but the "Alpha Shield" version I bought for my wife to use for the other fob completely blocks all the signal (it is a much bulkier box though). I use them as a backup in case I forget to put the fob to sleep.
 

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, PeterI said:

I believe the Toyota Supra has passed the Thatcham relay attack tests in early 2020. I'm guessing this is a motion sensor in the Key fob so maybe Lexus uses this on newer vehicles.

I put the key into sleep mode by pushing unlock twice while holding down lock (the LED flashes twice) and you can't open the door until you push one of the buttons. There is also a setting somewhere that turns off keyless entry but then you need to put the fob next to the starter button to start which sounds like a pain.

Yeah correct. I didn't say Toyota for this reason and just limited it to Lexus because of the Supra. I've not looked into the detail of it but the key fob on the Supra looks the same as a BMW fob so they could of just used the complete BMW engine ECU with built in immobiliser and attached security system - which means a new in-house Toyota vehicle still may not get sleeping keys.

 

It is a pain to turn off the smart unlocking system because of the need to put the fob next to the start button - I disabled it on my vehicle at start of Covid to reduce Battery discharge and every time I got into it I had already put the key in my pocket - I guess if you were doing it every day you would soon remember.

[Phil xxkr]

2 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Are you suggesting UK made goods are better? Most likely not the case...

Key for trackers is not the tracker itself, but the company fitting it and recovering the vehicle. The reason why something like Automatics work is because they fit trackers so well that even after ripping the car completely apart thieves could not find it + they are professionals and can find and recover the vehicle 24/7... but for that reason you paying hefty subscription fee. 

In short - any standalone trackers are useless... what would you do even if you know where you car is? Take taxi and go there with kitchen knife? Call police? Have you watched my videos? Police 100% going to just ignore it.

So the only option is to pay expensive subscription. 

Other "pro-active" option is immobiliser... that is as well better than tracker, because it means your car could not be moved away... instead of trying to recover it at later time... or parts of it. 

As I have already described... after market immobilisers are highly effective, sometimes even little bit too effective. So there is no reason to invent the wheel.

Linas. P, You make a number of interesting points but as Edmund Burke (British) commented in the 18th century " The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" You highlight quite rightly, perhaps, the efficacy of the Automatics solution, (or should that be Automatrics?) but without an affordability versus risk quotient? 

As a new entrant to Lexus acquisition and this club I suspect, like me, most member's cars are not in the first flush of warranty therefore look to balance out the joy of ownership with Council Tax, Energy bills etc. If not then this site would be called the Bentley Continental Owners Club. So in the face of adversity we naturally feel we should be doing something! And if it's less than optimal, and affordable, and quite honestly makes us feel at least we did something how wrong can that be? 

In regard to British is best etc. That is not quite the context in which my comment was posited but for clarification Flanders & Swann on YouTube have "A Song Of Patriotic Prejudice" which no doubt all countries have an equivalent. 

[Linas.P]

@Phil xxkr I guess you are right, sometimes my comments can be cheeky and blunt, however if you look into context you may notice I wasn't really targeting anyone or trying to offend - just kind of my personal style of writing.

To simplify - if you planning to get tracker, then you need a service, not simply a device. As you could see even people working in that service everyday and who have multiple inside connection in police could not recover the cars in time. So for you or me there is no chance. I understand that lower cost could be attractive and I do not criticise the choice based on that, I criticise it based on clear lack of options how to recover car even if you know where it went. And that I hope you will understand is a big issue for tracking device?

As for made in your own country thing, I do not think that british products are particularly bad, but I consider that to be a particularly bad marketing tactic. This is as well very popular across the pond where amuricans are ecstatic about "made in amurica" products... just because. First of all, it tells me that they had no better important and objective features to put in marketing - because what is important for a good tracker isn't where it is made. Secondly, it is little bit narcissistic if not xenophobic - are they suggesting trackers not made in UK are not as good, or that simply country of origin defines the quality? And if they do - then third... they clearly regard themselves superior without merit which is never good when it comes to delivering best product to the market. Obviously, there are products where it matters - I do try to buy British strawberries or potatoes (food product in general), not because they are best, but because they are likely to be more fresh and that is what matter on food products, but not on trackers. 

If we compare above with Automatrics, then you will clearly see what I mean. They do not claim they made in UK, what they do they show you dozen and dozen video on youtube to see how their product works. And there is no better proof than seeing a car completely disassembled to pieces and tracker still working. However, it shows another thing - product may work, but process of recovery in UK does not. This is exactly the reason I do not recommend any trackers (including Automatrics), unless you have no choice as your insurance stipulates you must have one.

Finally, consider whenever you actually need to protect your car. It being SUV it is currently in higher risk, but it being 8-9 years old... I really doubt it. You see - for us losing our cars is equivalent of entire value of the car and therefore it seems like a lot of money. For thieves stealing them - they just get paid for the job... As such when car value drops to certain degree it is no longer worthy enough to steal. As well their clients (or bosses) are willing to pay that fee because it makes financial sense. For example - even if you want to get crashed 2018 RX... you looking at 15-20k in auction, as such it makes sense to arrange the theft because maybe that will costs say £5000 + risk. 2012 RX only costs maybe £5000 in auction without any risk... so why steal it? Obviously, there could be some opportunist thief or drug addict who may attempt it (although I doubt such people would have skill to go past standard Lexus security), but at that point bright yellow wheel lock would be much more efficient method to protect your car and cheaper.

 

[Barry14UK]

7 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

Nice thoughts Barry, but why not simply apprehend the thieves as they remain locked in the vehicle ?

No need for cameras etc as by their very presence in the locked vehicle, they condemn themselves.

 I suppose it might be that if one or all the thieves manage to get away say by breaking window(s), the police have film for future identification.  A report of this on TV showed in USA some thieves even looked for camera(s) before driving off,  but not always well enough as some were caught. It makes little difference to owner whether his/her car was stolen to order or severely trashed by joy riders. However, appreciate many of the high value cars stolen cars in the UK are stolen to order but we know a high proportion of these are Range Rovers and top Mercs.  Maybe Police could come to arrangements with some owners to specially fit out some of these and attend at short notice if device activated.

[Linas.P]

15 minutes ago, Barry14UK said:

Maybe Police could come to arrangements with some owners to specially fit out some of these and attend at short notice if device activated.

I have already explained the difference between crime in US and UK and the tactics of planting "trap" cars. So not going to get into it again.

As well, I reckon joyriders would not be able to crack even standard Lexus security.

When it comes to police arrangement I find it quite funny as police MUST attend at short notice to crime scene either way - that is their job. They can use whatever excuse, but fact is they just can't do their job properly nowadays. 

Second funny thing, is that I remember in one "mythical" country police used to offer similar service, but that was in late 90's. That is - you could get tracker/alarm which was connected to police network and thus insured quick response and high rate of recoveries. However, when 21st century rolled that quickly got discontinued as it became politically incorrect for police to charge the fee for doing their job for which taxpayers already pays via tax. This service got transferred to private company and works well until this day, main reason why it works well is because not only the private company offering it is armed, but police would actually use reasonable force when called to assist. 

[Phil xxkr]

9 hours ago, Linas.P said:

@Phil xxkr I guess you are right, sometimes my comments can be cheeky and blunt, however if you look into context you may notice I wasn't really targeting anyone or trying to offend - just kind of my personal style of writing.

To simplify - if you planning to get tracker, then you need a service, not simply a device. As you could see even people working in that service everyday and who have multiple inside connection in police could not recover the cars in time. So for you or me there is no chance. I understand that lower cost could be attractive and I do not criticise the choice based on that, I criticise it based on clear lack of options how to recover car even if you know where it went. And that I hope you will understand is a big issue for tracking device?

As for made in your own country thing, I do not think that british products are particularly bad, but I consider that to be a particularly bad marketing tactic. This is as well very popular across the pond where amuricans are ecstatic about "made in amurica" products... just because. First of all, it tells me that they had no better important and objective features to put in marketing - because what is important for a good tracker isn't where it is made. Secondly, it is little bit narcissistic if not xenophobic - are they suggesting trackers not made in UK are not as good, or that simply country of origin defines the quality? And if they do - then third... they clearly regard themselves superior without merit which is never good when it comes to delivering best product to the market. Obviously, there are products where it matters - I do try to buy British strawberries or potatoes (food product in general), not because they are best, but because they are likely to be more fresh and that is what matter on food products, but not on trackers. 

If we compare above with Automatrics, then you will clearly see what I mean. They do not claim they made in UK, what they do they show you dozen and dozen video on youtube to see how their product works. And there is no better proof than seeing a car completely disassembled to pieces and tracker still working. However, it shows another thing - product may work, but process of recovery in UK does not. This is exactly the reason I do not recommend any trackers (including Automatrics), unless you have no choice as your insurance stipulates you must have one.

Finally, consider whenever you actually need to protect your car. It being SUV it is currently in higher risk, but it being 8-9 years old... I really doubt it. You see - for us losing our cars is equivalent of entire value of the car and therefore it seems like a lot of money. For thieves stealing them - they just get paid for the job... As such when car value drops to certain degree it is no longer worthy enough to steal. As well their clients (or bosses) are willing to pay that fee because it makes financial sense. For example - even if you want to get crashed 2018 RX... you looking at 15-20k in auction, as such it makes sense to arrange the theft because maybe that will costs say £5000 + risk. 2012 RX only costs maybe £5000 in auction without any risk... so why steal it? Obviously, there could be some opportunist thief or drug addict who may attempt it (although I doubt such people would have skill to go past standard Lexus security), but at that point bright yellow wheel lock would be much more efficient method to protect your car and cheaper.

 

That's a great reasoned response thank-you! And yes, you are so right, for people like me permanent deprivation of my vehicle would only represent a minor inconvenience (unless my dog was in it) . Now if it were my XKR that would be totally different 😎

But for people who have a major investment in their car, work and/or financial,  theft must be a real emotional wrench. And yes, in those circumstances I would be selling off the family silver to fund Automatrics. 

Oh, where can I find a 5k 2012, I would love to know😉

 

[royoftherovers]

12 hours ago, Linas.P said:

@Phil xxkr I guess you are right, sometimes my comments can be cheeky and blunt, however if you look into context you may notice I wasn't really targeting anyone or trying to offend - just kind of my personal style of writing.

To simplify - if you planning to get tracker, then you need a service, not simply a device. As you could see even people working in that service everyday and who have multiple inside connection in police could not recover the cars in time. So for you or me there is no chance. I understand that lower cost could be attractive and I do not criticise the choice based on that, I criticise it based on clear lack of options how to recover car even if you know where it went. And that I hope you will understand is a big issue for tracking device?

As for made in your own country thing, I do not think that british products are particularly bad, but I consider that to be a particularly bad marketing tactic. This is as well very popular across the pond where amuricans are ecstatic about "made in amurica" products... just because. First of all, it tells me that they had no better important and objective features to put in marketing - because what is important for a good tracker isn't where it is made. Secondly, it is little bit narcissistic if not xenophobic - are they suggesting trackers not made in UK are not as good, or that simply country of origin defines the quality? And if they do - then third... they clearly regard themselves superior without merit which is never good when it comes to delivering best product to the market. Obviously, there are products where it matters - I do try to buy British strawberries or potatoes (food product in general), not because they are best, but because they are likely to be more fresh and that is what matter on food products, but not on trackers. 

If we compare above with Automatrics, then you will clearly see what I mean. They do not claim they made in UK, what they do they show you dozen and dozen video on youtube to see how their product works. And there is no better proof than seeing a car completely disassembled to pieces and tracker still working. However, it shows another thing - product may work, but process of recovery in UK does not. This is exactly the reason I do not recommend any trackers (including Automatrics), unless you have no choice as your insurance stipulates you must have one.

Finally, consider whenever you actually need to protect your car. It being SUV it is currently in higher risk, but it being 8-9 years old... I really doubt it. You see - for us losing our cars is equivalent of entire value of the car and therefore it seems like a lot of money. For thieves stealing them - they just get paid for the job... As such when car value drops to certain degree it is no longer worthy enough to steal. As well their clients (or bosses) are willing to pay that fee because it makes financial sense. For example - even if you want to get crashed 2018 RX... you looking at 15-20k in auction, as such it makes sense to arrange the theft because maybe that will costs say £5000 + risk. 2012 RX only costs maybe £5000 in auction without any risk... so why steal it? Obviously, there could be some opportunist thief or drug addict who may attempt it (although I doubt such people would have skill to go past standard Lexus security), but at that point bright yellow wheel lock would be much more efficient method to protect your car and cheaper.

 

Very well reasoned and expressed my friend.

[Linas.P]

5 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

Oh, where can I find a 5k 2012, I would love to know😉

Crashed vehicle for repairs on auction, probably even cheaper. 

My comment was in relation to the situation where some low morale vehicle tradesman (or tradeswoman, because nowadays we need to be politically correct) has damaged car and they want to fix it. Often that is unrecorded damaged car so it can be sold back at high price/high profit once fixed.

They have an option of getting another wrecked car from auction (usually cheaper than ordering individual parts) or they have an option to reach out to their contacts in criminal world to get particular model stolen.

The theft itself will cost some money - some investigative journalism has revealed that process overall is ~£5k depending on the car, the thieves who takes the car usually get's £400-£2000 depending on complexity, butcher shop can get £500 per night per person (so say 4x) and people running the operation could charge whatever they like probably percentage of vehicle market value and complexity. So I guess on £60k Range-Rover or BWM this could be £10k, but on something like RX this will certainly be lower. This is obviously speculation, because although this is from interview with car thieves gang member it does not mean that all gangs operate the same way, or that he is telling the truth or that interview is even real, because it could all be "re-enactment".

So for the car to be stolen it has to be worth more for thieves and the person ordering, than same car could be found on salvage auctions. Obviously, there is as well question of supply - can such car be bought at reasonable price in reasonable time. Maybe their car has front of it crashed and all the cars on auction as well have front crashed etc.

Simply what I am saying - most of older cars after 5-10 years old generally are just not valuable enough to be prime targets. Mostly targeted are brand new cars or latest model e.g. car may be 2016, but the model is still present in 2020, meaning thieves can repair 2020 car with it.