RX450h stolen...how?

[Linas.P]

Yes... I assume for insurance is better to auction out the parted out car, than nothing at all.

However, the discount offered is not worth the effort for the owner. I guess probably depends on the car, but for me the difference was something like £15 from £1400 insurance whenever tracker is fitted or not.

[doog442]

10 hours ago, m4rkw said:

I think the police are much more likely to respond quickly and favourably if the crime is actively in progress, this is why I've designed the tracker in my car to alert me as quickly as possible. If the ignition is turned on during the hours I'm normally asleep it sends a shrill alarm to my iphone which overrides DnD mode, so if what happened to the OP happened to me I would know almost immediately. I also then have a simple short url I can give to the police which shows a google maps link with details about the car (registration, colour etc) and show's where it is and where it's heading in near-realtime (updates approx every 12s).

I think a call saying "my car is being stolen right now, it's on this street heading towards this street" would likely get their attention.

All that said, it's still better to try to stop it being stolen in the first place.

Exactly this. Any call about a car being stolen there or then would be acted upon but only ** if there were units available**. People have little idea about how absolutely run off their feet the Police are nowadays. Police numbers have been decimated and with them went plenty of specialist departments that would ordinarily deal with this sort of thing.

All calls are graded and looking at GMP's  Incident response policy for example, a crime in progress will instigate an emergency response, so yes you will get a response if your car is being stolen. The next level down is a priority response which means attendance within an hour. So if a stolen vehicle was located and there was a risk of it going missing again Police will attend, again dependant on resources.   

Many expensive vehicles that are stolen are presumed to have trackers by crooks. As a result they are often driven away and parked up somewhere, the presumption by those stealing the car is that if it does have a tracker it will be recovered by Police within a few hours. If its not recovered they will pop back and take it away again. 'Tracker' the company are excellent, they used to equip Police vehicles with software to track stolen vehicles and plant, as stated most of it was recovered intact parked up whilst they played a waiting game so would recommend them. 

Some videos have been posted above. As someone who spent the best part of a decade involved in asset tracking, the frustrations are there to see. However expecting Police to rock up without any prior consultation , drop everything, get multiple search warrants for numerous premises (in one vid they had no idea what unit it was in until access was gained via a side gate the next day) is stretching things . Its extremely labour intensive and rarely going to happen at a drop of a hat especially when you look at graded response criteria. There are numerous others issues at play here and without any idea of the process involved in obtaining warrants, the staff required, the risk assessments,  plus the paperwork involved in RIPA if you required observations on the premises for example (quite often used to be the case ) then its easy for people to scoff and fully understandable why it rarely goes to plan.  

I agree with the visible deterrent like a crook lock or similar, I would go as far as having some kind of 'This vehicle is protected by a tracker' type sticker on the vehicle and if it was over a certain price point then certainly a tracker from a named company or otherwise with a facility that you're using so you know its on the move. 

[wharfhouse]

55 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Yes... I assume for insurance is better to auction out the parted out car, than nothing at all.

However, the discount offered is not worth the effort for the owner. I guess probably depends on the car, but for me the difference was something like £15 from £1400 insurance whenever tracker is fitted or not.

Yes, I had a tracker on an expensive BMW in the late 1990s - paid for the tracker to be fitted and annual subscription. Didn't make any material difference to the insurance cost. After that haven't fitted a tracker since - I check now and again if it would make any difference to the insurance but it is negligible at best and as you say even if the car is recovered could well be damaged for which I would have to make a claim anyway. The only time I would now fit a tracker would be if I was told I had to in order to get insurance cover. Which reminds me of a friend who had bought a brand new top end BMW X5 - a couple of months later it was taken off his driveway (cloned key in some way he thinks as the keys were not taken from the house) - went to make the insurance claim to be told that it was a stipulation he should have had a tracker fitted, which he had inadvertently not fitted - some mix-up when collecting the car I believe. Long and short of it was he bought the car on finance so had to repay the full cost himself... 

[Linas.P]

Police being "run of their feet" is not really our concern, we don't pay less tax for it, we no longer have rights to protect our property either. It is fact, but just isn't an excuse.

We have to pay extraordinal insurance prices, taxes or when get a fine for few miles over the limit - nobody cares how "run of our feet" we are... we have to pay-up immanently full price or we will be prosecuted with full force like "real criminals".

As I mentioned already, it is not only issue of police either - law is set-up in such way that is almost impossible to prosecute thief. For example in other countries possession of stolen goods = theft, meaning that it does not matter that thief with the tools is gone and the person in the car does not have anything with him to prove he actually have stolen the car... simply driving stolen car is same as stealing it, or working in garage dismantling stolen car is same as stealing it... suddenly it becomes much harder to evade, because at any step dealing with stolen car one can be prosecuted for theft and simply being in it or in the same room with it counts same as theft. 

In UK it is almost impossible to prove this link, so even if there would be police resources not much would change.

[doog442]

The laws are perfectly adequate . We have an offence of handling stolen goods that covers some of your criteria, it actually carries a sentence of 14 years, theft is only 7. Then we have TWOC and so on.

If its impossible to prosecute car thieves then I must have wasted a career locking them up 

If you can't see the link between lack of resources, crime figures and priorities then I can't help you. Low Police numbers are everyones concern.

[Linas.P]

How often the sentence of more than suspended 12 months is given? Real prison sentences for car theft is absolute exceptions.

When you say "everyone's concern"...  yes I am concerned that police in UK is dysfunctional, but you put it in a way as if that is "okey for them not to investigate crimes because they simply don't have resources and are exhausted".

What I suppose to do about that? Just accept that when my stuff is stolen that police won't look at it (which is literally the case majority of the time)? What is the solution you suggesting? 

[doog442]

People who break into or steal cars rarely do it as a one off (the theft of high value vehicles tend to be organised crime but not always). So they can get custodial sentences dependant on their history of offending.

The UK police are not 'dysfunctional'.  

Just do what anyone else does, I've visited far worse places than the UK for policing and crime (many of these in the EU) so make appropriate, common sense crime prevention measures as discussed in this thread.   

[Paul Brooksbank]

On 3/9/2021 at 9:55 AM, H3XME said:

Sorry to hear that.

This little pouch is the most cost effective solution. When the key is in the pouch you can stand right next to car and it won't unlock. (keyless entry) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Blocker-Faraday-Keyless-Blocking-Protection-2-x-Signal/dp/B076KZF645/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=key+pouch+anti+theft&qid=1615283697&sr=8-3

I've got one of those, it stopped working after about five months as the material wore. 

[Linas.P]

You rarely see country where company tracks stolen car to exact location within 10 meters, 3 police vans comes to the place with dozen of officers, then summons police helicopter and then simply drives-off. 

Besides in most EU countries citizens are allowed to own guns and use them for self-defence, in we are absolutely reliant on UK to act... and they simply don't.

The reason maybe that they don't have resources, but in the end of the day they just providing the service. If my network provider stop providing internet for me, because they "run of our feet" I would simply switch provider, because last one was "dysfunctional"... with police I sadly can't do that, but that does not make them any better.

The only time they seems to function is when they need to get £100 from you for few miles over the limit or some minor infraction, because you are working person and paying taxes, so they know where you are and they can simply collect the money. But as soon as something needs to be investigated you just get e-mail 2 days later saying "case closed as evidence is insufficient to continue the investigation".

I do agree that visible locks etc. could help drive away thief sometimes, but that does not overall reduce the crime - they simply going to steal the car down the road, so that is no the solution. 

[doog442]

21 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

You rarely see country where company tracks stolen car to exact location within 10 meters, 3 police vans comes to the place with dozen of officers, then summons police helicopter and then simply drives-off. 

 

It wasn't the exact location. It was a large complex with a number of independent units. Access was denied by one large gate. The trackers had no idea what unit the car was in until they gained access into the communal yard the following day.

You think they drove off for a tea break ? The video explained why a warrant wasn't obtained, naturally that guy on the video was hacked off as he wanted to placate a customer and get some kudos for his company.  

As for you speeding rants...don't speed..end of.

[lfoggy]

Some very interesting discussion here, thanks.

This is my plan for my new RX:

Keys will be stored in a proper Fraday cage

Car will have Ghost immobiliser and tracker fitted

Drive will have one of these:

I am also seriously considering the venomous snake and rabid dog options.....

[Linas.P]

8 minutes ago, doog442 said:

Access was denied by one large gate. 

Wow... that as a massive obstacle... surely there is nothing on this planet that could move the gate.

Now I give you that - UK police is the most risk averse force on the planet. Sure legally they are actually right and the is respectable, however what their actions done was just protecting people who harbour the criminals.

Do you think I was born yesterday - are you trying to tell me the guy renting the unit didn't know what was going on there? Obviously, he is in the same game.

I know multiple countries where they would have ripped the gate out, ripped all the garages out and then charged the landlord the fee for the work of removing all the locks and gates - as a lesson to check more carefully next time to whom he rents the units.

This illustrates my example how the laws are flawed in UK, because in other countries the landlord would be ultimately responsible that the stolen car was found in his garage. He would not b charged with stealing the car, but he would have been charged with possession of stolen goods and received exactly the same sentence... or may have agreed plea deal and stitched his associates - both works for me... 

[doog442]

15 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

I know multiple countries where they would have ripped the gate out, ripped all the garages out and then charged the landlord the fee for the work of removing all the locks and gates - as a lesson to check more carefully next time to whom he rents the units.

 

Sure you do 

Few of your mythical countries would have responded to some random bloke with a tracking wand ringing the police and claiming a stolen vehicle 'might' be somewhere 'over there..in that yard and beyond that gate' ....and in one of those units but we have no idea which one. 

I know this for a fact as we did overseas stuff.

That said , this is the beauty of the UK...we do it properly. I'm pretty damned sure if you rented one of those units and the doors were ripped off and the premises searched, your stuff turned upside down you'd be wanting answers....hopefully not on here. 

[Linas.P]

31 minutes ago, doog442 said:

That said , this is the beauty of the UK. I'm pretty damned sure if you rented one of those units and the doors were ripped off and the premises searched, your stuff turned upside down you'd be wanting answers.  

Sure... but that is perhaps the reason why we have such an acute car theft problem and such a low rate of recoveries (unless owners tracks the car by themselves).

In many countries that would be considered reasonable force to recover stolen goods and when you go out looking for answers, you yourself would be questioned why didn't you think of reporting suspicious activity, when in neighbouring unit guys are splitting apart brand new and perfectly fine cars every other day.

I think UK police has slightly different sense of "justice" i.e. in some of the mythical countries I mentioned police cares more about stopping or preventing crime then whenever it is strictly legal (I agree - this could be slight issue), the decision is usually made on the available possibilities e.g. what is bigger crime - braking 5 £20 padlocks and trespassing or allowing £80k car to be destroyed and letting thief away. 

I think it is clear to me what is more important in this situation... and again it would be the landlord would would be ultimately responsible. So even if there would be genuinely innocent person garage lock broken, police would just recover the damages from the landlord as he should know better what is happening on his premises.   

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, lfoggy said:

Drive will have one of these:

 

I'm sure there is something either side of the picture that will stop the vehicle, but as it is, that is looking as effective as this gate 😁

 

[Shahpor]

@doog442 @Linas.P you two really need to stop replying to each others' posts 🙂

[Riccccccardo]

On 3/8/2021 at 5:29 PM, Herbie said:

Sorry to hear of your loss.

Sadly, not all metal boxes are created equal when it comes to this and there are a couple of videos (maybe more) on YouTube showing that, say, a biscuit tin is no good. Best results come from a metallic mesh or if the biscuit tin is lined with aluminium cooking foil.

Prevention is the key and a visual deterrent is best of all, which is why I still use a big yellow steering wheel lock - one look at that and they'll hopefully move to an easier target.

ive seen videos of these yellow locks being taken off easily by pro thieves 🙁. 

[runsgrateasanut]

You have to think like Gene Hackman - Enemy of the State film.

[royoftherovers]

17 minutes ago, runsgrateasanut said:

You have to think like Gene Hackman - Enemy of the State film.

One of the best films I ever saw Stu !

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, Riccccccardo said:

ive seen videos of these yellow locks being taken off easily by pro thieves 🙁. 

They are... as any other imaginable obstacle.

When it comes to thieves, the only thing which matters is risk vs. reward. So if you have bollard, if you have wheel lock, CCTV with movement sensing light etc. That increases risk for them and that may reduce their interest in your particular car, BUT if the reward justifies the risk then they do anything. Don't forget that they are worthless s c u m. Meaning that if they really wants you car they will braking into your home and make you unlock everything yourself in gunpoint. And there is nothing we can do in UK, because we are not permitted to self-defend (well technically we are, but criminals can come with knives, bats, guns etc. and we only have bare hands).

Other thing to understand - they do not simply steal "nice cars" (maybe sometimes they do opportunistic theft like that), they steal on order. It means they already have customer for specific car, they either have non-recorded write-off which they then clone onto stolen car, or they have damaged car they need spare parts for.

So if they took Lexus RX, means they needed Lexus RX specifically, because they needed to fix or legitimise similar car. If it happens that they have 3-4 cars to choose from they will steal the one which is easiest to steal, but if you the only one around then nothing will stop them.

[Herbie]

2 hours ago, Riccccccardo said:

ive seen videos of these yellow locks being taken off easily by pro thieves 🙁. 

True. You have to think that people still manage to rob banks, so if they are very determined they'll manage it. However, as with other things, not all "yellow locks" are equal.

This took more than five minutes to defeat in tests. That's five minutes of hammering, sawing, chiselling and noise - in other words, five minutes of hassle that the criminals don't want.

Here's just one review https://www.carbuyer.co.uk/tips-and-advice/158469/best-steering-wheel-locks-to-buy

[royoftherovers]

48 minutes ago, Herbie said:

True. You have to think that people still manage to rob banks, so if they are very determined they'll manage it. However, as with other things, not all "yellow locks" are equal.

This took more than five minutes to defeat in tests. That's five minutes of hammering, sawing, chiselling and noise - in other words, five minutes of hassle that the criminals don't want.

Here's just one review https://www.carbuyer.co.uk/tips-and-advice/158469/best-steering-wheel-locks-to-buy

The Yellow Lock in the Range Rover was lying on the floor by the rear seats.

Was there any evidence that it had been fitted to the STEERING WHEEL ?

[LenT]

1 hour ago, Herbie said:

True. You have to think that people still manage to rob banks, so if they are very determined they'll manage it. However, as with other things, not all "yellow locks" are equal.

This took more than five minutes to defeat in tests. That's five minutes of hammering, sawing, chiselling and noise - in other words, five minutes of hassle that the criminals don't want.

Here's just one review https://www.carbuyer.co.uk/tips-and-advice/158469/best-steering-wheel-locks-to-buy

I used to have a couple of the cover style of steering wheel lock.

if I remember correctly, they often defeated criminal attack in comparative tests.  The advantage they had over the bar type is that the wheel was sufficiently covered to ensure that simply cutting or breaking the wheel itself still wouldn’t free the lock.

https://www.barriersdirect.co.uk/parking-posts-residential-c1087/car-trailer-van-hitch-locks-and-posts-c1228/steering-wheel-lock-deterrent-for-electronic-thieves-tested-by-experts-low-low-price-p23262?shopping&ppc_keyword=&gclid=Cj0KCQiAnKeCBhDPARIsAFDTLTLi57Lk1q2_IUMiO3AsyaBb1OING7b03eq4qHVYjALqFhbu2v2wbRIaAveVEALw_wcB

 

[LenT]

57 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

The Yellow Lock in the Range Rover was lying on the floor by the rear seats.

Was there any evidence that it had been fitted to the STEERING WHEEL ?

That often was the problem.  It took a certain degree of commitment to not only fit the lock, if you were just popping into a nearby shop, say, but also to accept that your get away was going to take a bit of time too.

 

[Linas.P]

2 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

The Yellow Lock in the Range Rover was lying on the floor by the rear seats.

Was there any evidence that it had been fitted to the STEERING WHEEL ?

I don't want watch it again, but I believe from the memory owner said he forgotten to fit the lock.

But again... it is depends on how determined they are. If they really cannot find the ways to steal it, but they still need the car... they simply wait until you came off in the morning and car-jack it.

I don't want to scare anyone, but really there is no single solution for car theft in UK. It is possible to reduce the odds of it happening to you and usually it is enough. 

Quite simple solution is to own older car which is not in big demand e.g. my old IS250... nobody going to steal it even if I leave the doors open... at worst I will find homeless sleeping in it. RC200t I currently have again not the car which is at high risk.

High risk cars are mostly performance German cars M, AMG, RS... and Luxury SUVs... Lexus is probably least at risk from them all, but from Lexus range RX and NX are certainly highest risk, maybe odd RC-F as well, but rest of the range are either too rare or not valuable.