RX450h stolen...how?

[KenMavor]

11 hours ago, lfoggy said:

Thanks Barry but I am not optimistic. New car then. Not ready for full electric yet as I do some long rural journeys. Quite liking the Jaguar or Range Rover plug-in hybrids but they are not great value for money compared to an RX. Probably a new 2021 RX when the insurance pays up. It was insured with Lexus insurance and they are saying it will take a week so not too bad.

Maybe worth having a chat with the insurance company and saying to them......go find me a NX with this spec in the price range.  Really nail down what you want, colour, mileage etc and get them to source it for you.  They should have far better access to the supply thatn you and will probably get a better deal than you could.  Just a thought.  Did that with my wife's last car that got stolen and they came back with a far better car, lower mileage, better nick etc.

Depends what the insurance company will do.

[Prince Bob]

1 hour ago, Phil xxkr said:

Very very sad indictment of the times, makes you question the value of owning anything nice or of value!

Prompted me to look for rfid wallet /fob case. Anyone found one that works? Cheers Phil 

This is the one I use https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Car-Key-Signal-Blocker-Case-Faraday-Cage-Fob-Pouch-Keyless-RFID-Blocking-Bag-UK-/303880639953?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

Does the job, there are plenty on amazon as well if you don't use eBay

[Barry14UK]

1 hour ago, ColinBarber said:

The outcome is the same but it is the vehicle that is constantly transmitting, the key is just listening and responds when it hears the vehicle.

This conflicts with all I have read.  Also, if the car was transmitting a signal it should be possible to use a devise to read that signal without needing to be able to relay a signal from the key fob.  'Signal Blocking pouches can stop access to your vehicle by blocking your car key fob from transmitting its code to the vehicle, as the pouches are lined with layers of metallic material.'  from interesting report by Auto Locksmiths as detailed here. https://www.locksmiths.co.uk/faq/keyless-car-theft/

[IDB]

1 hour ago, H3XME said:

Sorry to hear that.

This little pouch is the most cost effective solution. When the key is in the pouch you can stand right next to car and it won't unlock. (keyless entry) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Blocker-Faraday-Keyless-Blocking-Protection-2-x-Signal/dp/B076KZF645/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=key+pouch+anti+theft&qid=1615283697&sr=8-3

Can vouch these absolutely work.

[ColinBarber]

13 minutes ago, Barry14UK said:

This conflicts with all I have read.  Also, if the car was transmitting a signal it should be possible to use a devise to read that signal without needing to be able to relay a signal from the key fob.  'Signal Blocking pouches can stop access to your vehicle by blocking your car key fob from transmitting its code to the vehicle, as the pouches are lined with layers of metallic material.'  from interesting report by Auto Locksmiths as detailed here. https://www.locksmiths.co.uk/faq/keyless-car-theft/

The vehicle sends out a signal every few seconds. If the key hears it then it responses with its id / rolling code. If the key were transmitting all the time then we would need to change the Battery every few weeks or have key fobs the size of mobile phones.

[Illogan]

2 hours ago, H3XME said:

Sorry to hear that.

This little pouch is the most cost effective solution. When the key is in the pouch you can stand right next to car and it won't unlock. (keyless entry) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Blocker-Faraday-Keyless-Blocking-Protection-2-x-Signal/dp/B076KZF645/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=key+pouch+anti+theft&qid=1615283697&sr=8-3

We bought a pair of these, and after 18 months still work well, regularly test them and also keep they keys in them when out shopping etc - Although the metal fabric within them will break down in time I think (as they are flexible), but come that day I'll just replace them at £7 a pop

[lfoggy]

Many thanks for all the helpfu comments.

I think I will have a 'Ghost Immobiliser' fitted to my next car. Should make keeping the keys in boxes redundant and hopfully prevent a repeat of what happened.

[Herbie]

16 minutes ago, lfoggy said:

Many thanks for all the helpfu comments.

I think I will have a 'Ghost Immobiliser' fitted to my next car. Should make keeping the keys in boxes redundant and hopfully prevent a repeat of what happened.

The problem with that is that they are already in the car before the Ghost comes into play. If they can't get it to start they may just trash the interior out of vindictiveness. As I said earlier, prevention is better than cure and this video proves it:
 

 

[lfoggy]

I think you are right there Herbs but I donlt think I have the discipline to put on the lock every time. Another option I am thinking is an electrically operated bollard at the entrance to the drive. House down the road has one and it goes down as you drive up to it and rises once parked. Quite cool really.

[Greisingel]

55 minutes ago, lfoggy said:

I think you are right there Herbs but I donlt think I have the discipline to put on the lock every time. Another option I am thinking is an electrically operated bollard at the entrance to the drive. House down the road has one and it goes down as you drive up to it and rises once parked. Quite cool really.

Do these drop automatically? I know exactly what would happen with me. I’d reverse into it one morning.

That’s why I have a 2005 RX400H.No one dare nick it without at least doing an RAC 50 point check.

Jokes aside, it really is ludicrous that cars cannot achieve some sort of impenetrable radio cryptography between car and fob. I am sure we’re generally better off than the old coat hanger down a window days.

But that video Herbs postEd shows just how simple the process is to disarm the car. 

[royoftherovers]

2 minutes ago, Greisingel said:

Do these drop automatically? I know exactly what would happen with me. I’d reverse into it one morning.

That’s why I have a 2005 RX400H.No one dare nick it without at least doing an RAC 50 point check.

Jokes aside, it really is ludicrous that cars cannot achieve some sort of impenetrable radio cryptography between car and fob. I am sure we’re generally better off than the old coat hanger down a window days.

But that video Herbs postEd shows just how simple the process is to disarm the car. 

UNLESS.....it has a steering lock fitted.

[Greisingel]

2 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

UNLESS.....it has a steering lock fitted.

Quite right. In the end if you want security get something mechanical to protect against the fallible digital. 

[smallredball]

Buy a cardboard box and put some "WARNING: BIOHAZARD" packing tape to seal it. Maybe make the corners of the box look like it's been leaking some sort of goo. Then leave it on the driver's seat.

Of course, this does rely on the scrote being able to read...

[Herbie]

53 minutes ago, smallredball said:

Of course, this does rely on the scrote being able to read...

And understanding what a Biohazard is, which is even less likely I would have thought.

[steve2006]

People used to cross the road when I took mine for a walk.

[lfoggy]

41 minutes ago, steve2006 said:

People used to cross the road when I took mine for a walk.

Doesn't look very scarey to me. Might lick you to death I guess.....

[Greisingel]

[Barry14UK]

You would have thought that the UX as a fairly recent model would not have been one of the failures here, again some interesting detail if you follow it right through :- https://www.thatcham.org/what-we-do/security/consumer-rating/ 

[ColinBarber]

17 minutes ago, Barry14UK said:

You would have thought that the UX as a fairly recent model would not have been one of the failures here, again some interesting detail if you follow it right through :- https://www.thatcham.org/what-we-do/security/consumer-rating/ 

I'm not aware of Lexus doing anything to address relay attacks yet. I don't believe they use motion sensing keys on any vehicle.

[Linas.P]

On 3/8/2021 at 7:27 PM, Barry14UK said:

Consider a tracker?

In cases where the key fob sends out a signal that can be cloned, a really good box is required, also not forgetting the spare.  Although relatively expensive, a little bulky and holding only one fob, I have found this Vonetti one very durable and effective. It's made of strong aluminium and I added a very small amount of foam to stop the Lexus fob from rattling within. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Alpha-Shield-Premium-Keyless-Aluminium-Schwarz/dp/B077JCQFXQ/ref=pd_lpo_23_t_0/260-0222312-1434958?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B077JCQFXQ&pd_rd_r=6f844b87-5a05-4f44-b09a-c58aa009bb37&pd_rd_w=3jUyn&pd_rd_wg=HEOzF&pf_rd_p=da0677f5-a47b-4543-8b54-10be576b8f26&pf_rd_r=VEY0K566EDJPQVX1M11Z&psc=1&refRID=VEY0K566EDJPQVX1M11Z

Actually, It may be worse - because police in UK could not care less for car crime.

So not only you going to pay for tracker, but as well instead of getting full pay out you will get your car in parts and your insurance go up either way.

Tracker would be good thing if police would actually act on them, but they don't, just painful to watch:

 

[Barry14UK]

Very disappointing case.  Arrangement for getting warrants or enabling Police to enter premises if there is high chance of recovery/apprehension needs sorting urgently.  Apprehend those responsible for one theft and chances are you stop further cars being stolen by the gang.

However, Tracker reported 95% cars fitted with tracker in UK were recovered so may be worth considering.  https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/fleet-management/case-studies/industry-profiles/tracker-uk-spotlight

The figures are a little behind times and the Police, whose cooperation is needed have been saddled with additional duties so maybe recovery figures are not quite as high now. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[m4rkw]

I think the police are much more likely to respond quickly and favourably if the crime is actively in progress, this is why I've designed the tracker in my car to alert me as quickly as possible. If the ignition is turned on during the hours I'm normally asleep it sends a shrill alarm to my Iphone which overrides DnD mode, so if what happened to the OP happened to me I would know almost immediately. I also then have a simple short url I can give to the police which shows a google maps link with details about the car (registration, colour etc) and show's where it is and where it's heading in near-realtime (updates approx every 12s).

I think a call saying "my car is being stolen right now, it's on this street heading towards this street" would likely get their attention.

All that said, it's still better to try to stop it being stolen in the first place.

[LenT]

On 3/8/2021 at 10:45 PM, Barry14UK said:

I have had 2 cars where there was a hidden switch which to cut out the ignition but don't know whether more sophisticated electrical systems in modern cars would allow this to be easily achieved.  In the past there were also gear lever locks and even manual locks to cut off fuel supply from within the cabin.  Yes, a number of devices available in the past,  supposedly replaced by modern more convenient locking systems. 

Commiserations to Lukas, who I hope gets his car back soon and undamaged. 

Ah yes!  The advantages of modern technological advances!  As a previous poster mentioned, in the old days (!) it was up with the bonnet, release the two clips holding down the distributor cap and pull off the rotor arm.  To steal that car you either had to have a spare rotor arm on you or a tow truck.

I had a Lotus Elan which I fitted with an immobiliser.  It was simply a threaded screw which went into a holder and completed a circuit to the low tension supply to the distributor.  Without it, the engine would just churn over.  But superior engine advances have put paid to such simple measures.

I would suggest that the problem is fuelled by the increasing reliance on electronic deterrence.  Using such technology always invites the development of similar technology to defeat it - which ultimately it always will.  It may be that the way to defeat an escalating technological problem is not greater complexity but the return to simplicity.

PS: I see this is my 100th post!  Doesn't time fly when you're having fun.

 

[Linas.P]

10 hours ago, Barry14UK said:

Very disappointing case.  Arrangement for getting warrants or enabling Police to enter premises if there is high chance of recovery/apprehension needs sorting urgently.  Apprehend those responsible for one theft and chances are you stop further cars being stolen by the gang.

However, Tracker reported 95% cars fitted with tracker in UK were recovered so may be worth considering.  https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/fleet-management/case-studies/industry-profiles/tracker-uk-spotlight

I am sure that 95% tracked cars are recovered, problem is the state they recovered in, at which point I am not convinced you actually want your car to be recovered. Obviously, if it is damaged or disassembled then it can be still written-off. But what is the gain there - if it is stolen and not recovered you will get insurance pay-out and if it is recovered and written-off, equally you will get insurance pay out. In either case that will be accident/claim on your insurance and your insurance will go up. So what is the the benefit to you? I guess there is wider benefit to the society as some proceed of the crime are stopped, but I don't see much benefit for individual who is paying for tracking.

5 hours ago, m4rkw said:

I think the police are much more likely to respond quickly and favourably if the crime is actively in progress

If it is risk for persons life.. maybe. If it is just stolen car then no difference. See this case - crime in action, gang came and picked-up the car in front of the cameras. Police took 6 hours to react and when gang moved the car and police arrived... gang just standing there... police didn't even attempt to investigate. The second car gang was driving was as well stolen! Police it total joke when it comes to car crime.

 

 

1 hour ago, LenT said:

I would suggest that the problem is fuelled by the increasing reliance on electronic deterrence.

Congrats on the 100th post 😄 

It is just my opinion, but you can judge for yourself. The issue is fuelled by car crime being effectively decriminalised nowadays, this is partially fault of laws, partially fault of CPS/Courts and partially fault of Police. In short - total failure of all 3 branches of government - legislative, executive and judicial. The laws are joke, making it very difficult to prosecute car thief, the sentencing and interpretation of the laws are joke, making criminals to go away with very lenient sentences or avoid more serious charges, and police is joke, because they don't even investigate the crimes right in front of their nose. All issues contributes to each other - there is no point creating better laws because they are not enforced and there are no precedent to follow, there is no point to judge people when there is very little deterrent or remedy within the law and there is no point of investigating the crimes, because it is time consuming and end result is lenient sentencing or criminals walking away.

Consider this - most prosecutions fail because of lack of evidence, because being in stolen car is not considered a crime in itself, working on stolen car only or holding it in your premises carries very small penalties of "possession of stolen goods" etc. The way law is structured is that proving one step at the times does no add value, to prove car theft police has to prove entire chain from beginning to the top - prove that car was stolen, stripped and parts sold... only then it is theft.. which is still very lenient... most sentences are 6-12month suspended sentences, few hundred £ fines and few hours of community work. Criminal completely obliterate such laws by separating the theft itself, from handling and from selling of the goods... meaning at no point they can be charged for theft. Driving in the car full of equipment designed for steeling the cars is not a crime in itself, stealing the car takes 5 min - so catching the m red handed is nearly impossible, the thief with equipment never drives the car, so there is no link, the thief driving the car has no equipment to it cannot be proven that he stolen it (this is absurdity of the law), the people stripping the car don't drive it so again they cannot be charged with anything (they just claim it is customer car) and tracing the person selling the parts is impossible as proof of purchase of used car parts is not required. Most of the times they get 1-3month suspended sentences. How is that deterrent?!

The only thing I agree with - having like wheel lock or bollard is good detraction for thief as they will look for easier target. This is the best you can do...

However, if they determined it won't stop them. I remember somebody here telling the story of their friend who had E63AMG or RS6 and dozen of thief came at night threatened to set house on fire unless he gives keys to bollard and car... obviously he complied, what else could he do? In UK we are not allowed to have guns for self defence and there is no way fighting dozen thief with bats and molotov cocktails just using your bare hands... even if you Chuck Norris...

So yeah... in summary sad story and it won't get better at any time soon.

[ColinBarber]

3 hours ago, Linas.P said:

I am sure that 95% tracked cars are recovered, problem is the state they recovered in, at which point I am not convinced you actually want your car to be recovered.

I assume there has to be a benefit to insurers otherwise they wouldn't continue to provide discounts. Maybe their saving is just in a paying out for a partial loss rather than a full one.

A colleague received an alert once informing him his vehicle was speeding. Turns out someone from his dealership was driving his X5 at 110 mph on the road test - he got a free service as a result so there are other benefits 🙂