RX450h stolen...how?

[lfoggy]

My 2 year old RX450h Takumi was stolen from my drive last night. Alarm didn't go off, keys are in my possession and kept in a metal box when not in use. How on earth did they steal it? Quite upsetting really. What can I do to prevent a repeat when I replace it? Additional immobilizer perhaps.

[Herbie]

12 minutes ago, lfoggy said:

keys are in my possession and kept in a metal box

Sorry to hear of your loss.

Sadly, not all metal boxes are created equal when it comes to this and there are a couple of videos (maybe more) on YouTube showing that, say, a biscuit tin is no good. Best results come from a metallic mesh or if the biscuit tin is lined with aluminium cooking foil.

Prevention is the key and a visual deterrent is best of all, which is why I still use a big yellow steering wheel lock - one look at that and they'll hopefully move to an easier target.

[lfoggy]

Dealer tells me the latest keys are inert when stationary to prevent key cloning.

[Prince Bob]

50 minutes ago, lfoggy said:

My 2 year old RX450h Takumi was stolen from my drive last night. Alarm didn't go off, keys are in my possession and kept in a metal box when not in use. How on earth did they steal it? Quite upsetting really. What can I do to prevent a repeat when I replace it? Additional immobilizer perhaps.

 

Sorry to hear your pride and joy got pinched, but at least you are OK, cars can always be replaced 

You could always get a ghost immobiliser. The Ghost uses the buttons in your vehicles such as those on the steering wheel, door panels or centre console, seat, stereo etc, to allow you to make a unique, changeable, unique PIN code sequence that must first be entered before you can drive your car.  

It won't stop somebody picking up the car and putting it a tow truck, but it's the next thing. I have not used the product myself, (I don't deem my car valuable enough) but I have a few friends who have it and they speak highly of it. https://ghostinstallations.co.uk/ghost-immobiliser-installation-lp/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAs5eCBhCBARIsAEhk4r75UZK8QlkaIvZQe1fXyoJKd3oWoHV1xZ9gScBg20KgXfcpkqIG9J0aAmzBEALw_wcB#lp-pom-block-245-color-overlay

I have no affliation with the company, I'm sure there may be similar products on the market, the device seems to get good reviews on pistonheads and all other motoring forums. 

I would suggest purchasing a Faraday pouch from amazon or eBay for less than £10, these are excellent. You put your keys in and they  block the signal. You can walk right up the car with the keys in the pouch and car won't unlock, definitely worth the purchase. I don't know the technology behind it, but they work a treat 

Good luck!

 

 

[royoftherovers]

51 minutes ago, lfoggy said:

Dealer tells me the latest keys are inert when stationary to prevent key cloning.

Tell him to put that in writing and DO tell us if he does !

[lfoggy]

1 minute ago, royoftherovers said:

Tell him to put that in writing and DO tell us if he does !

Is it not true?

[royoftherovers]

4 minutes ago, lfoggy said:

Is it not true?

I was not suggesting that it was or was not.

The Acid Test comes when one finds out when loses one`s car and then sues the Dealer who dared to put it in  writing.

It is not what people say that is important Lukas. Never, ever trust what a Salesperson says.

[Barry14UK]

Consider a tracker?

In cases where the key fob sends out a signal that can be cloned, a really good box is required, also not forgetting the spare.  Although relatively expensive, a little bulky and holding only one fob, I have found this Vonetti one very durable and effective. It's made of strong aluminium and I added a very small amount of foam to stop the Lexus fob from rattling within. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Alpha-Shield-Premium-Keyless-Aluminium-Schwarz/dp/B077JCQFXQ/ref=pd_lpo_23_t_0/260-0222312-1434958?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B077JCQFXQ&pd_rd_r=6f844b87-5a05-4f44-b09a-c58aa009bb37&pd_rd_w=3jUyn&pd_rd_wg=HEOzF&pf_rd_p=da0677f5-a47b-4543-8b54-10be576b8f26&pf_rd_r=VEY0K566EDJPQVX1M11Z&psc=1&refRID=VEY0K566EDJPQVX1M11Z

[smallredball]

Man, that's a bummer. 😞 Hope your insurance claim goes smoothly and you're in another one sometime soon.

 

(says the worried guy soon about to get his first keyless car...)

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, lfoggy said:

Dealer tells me the latest keys are inert when stationary to prevent key cloning.

Somehow I doubt that very much, as it surely would defeat the whole idea of keyless entry/start?

How would the key (or even the car) differentiate between "stationary" as in I'm in Asda doing my shopping and will need the keyless entry when my hands are full of bags; or "stationary" as in I'm going to bed now so you can turn the key off for 8 hours?

[m4rkw]

Buy older cars that don't have the newer-style keys that are prone to this kind of attack 🙂

I have an arduino-based tracker in mine that I wrote the software for. As others have said it is generally better to not let it get stolen in the first place.

[lfoggy]

11 minutes ago, Herbie said:

Somehow I doubt that very much, as it surely would defeat the whole idea of keyless entry/start?

How would the key (or even the car) differentiate between "stationary" as in I'm in Asda doing my shopping and will need the keyless entry when my hands are full of bags; or "stationary" as in I'm going to bed now so you can turn the key off for 8 hours?

I think the key has a motion sensor so it is only active when jiggling around in your pocket or bag. Once you put it down somewhere it goes to sleep after a few minutes.

[fred81]

11 minutes ago, Herbie said:

Somehow I doubt that very much, as it surely would defeat the whole idea of keyless entry/start?

How would the key (or even the car) differentiate between "stationary" as in I'm in Asda doing my shopping and will need the keyless entry when my hands are full of bags; or "stationary" as in I'm going to bed now so you can turn the key off for 8 hours?

if the key isn't moved for a set period, it stops transmitting. walking from asda to your car with key in your pocket will prevent this from happening and you can get in the car no problem.

[lfoggy]

3 minutes ago, m4rkw said:

Buy older cars that don't have the newer-style keys that are prone to this kind of attack 🙂

I have an arduino-based tracker in mine that I wrote the software for. As others have said it is generally better to not let it get stolen in the first place.

Buying an older car to avoid it being nicked seems like defeat to me but old cars do have some interesting antit-theft options. When I had a Triumph Spitfire I used to remove the rotor from the distributor when I left it unattended.....

[Herbie]

Just for the avoidance of confusion, this isn't key cloning.

The usual method of key cloning involves the criminal using a device to block the signal from your remote fob as you lock the car. Either you don't notice that it's not locked or you do notice but think there's a problem and you'll sort it out later.

When you walk off to the shops or whatever, the criminal goes in the car, plugs a device into the OBD socket and less than a minute later they can have a blank key cloned with the information necessary for that key to work just as if it was the one in your pocket.

What's happened here is more likely to be a relay attack. Your key fob is constantly transmitting a signal, 24/7, that the car is looking for. Even if those keys are at the back of the house, someone stood at the front of the house with a relay box will be able to pick up that signal, which is then amplified and sent out again to a guy stood by the car with another box of electronics that now pretends to be the key. Doors unlock, car starts, and it'll keep running until it either runs out of petrol or the criminals turn it off, whereupon they won't be able to get it going again.

[Prince Bob]

14 minutes ago, Herbie said:

Somehow I doubt that very much, as it surely would defeat the whole idea of keyless entry/start?

How would the key (or even the car) differentiate between "stationary" as in I'm in Asda doing my shopping and will need the keyless entry when my hands are full of bags; or "stationary" as in I'm going to bed now so you can turn the key off for 8 hours?

I presume the keys must like the new ones Ford, BMW and VAG use which 'sleep' when the key has not detected  motion after a certain time, then 'wake up' once they have detected movement.

[Herbie]

5 minutes ago, lfoggy said:

I think the key has a motion sensor so it is only active when jiggling around in your pocket or bag. Once you put it down somewhere it goes to sleep after a few minutes.

Aha, fair enough then.

[Habu]

Sorry to hear that.  That really sucks.  Lexus Link shows where your vehicle is parked up and where / when it’s driven.  Do you have that connected?

[Barry14UK]

2 hours ago, lfoggy said:

Buying an older car to avoid it being nicked seems like defeat to me but old cars do have some interesting antit-theft options. When I had a Triumph Spitfire I used to remove the rotor from the distributor when I left it unattended.....

I have had 2 cars where there was a hidden switch which to cut out the ignition but don't know whether more sophisticated electrical systems in modern cars would allow this to be easily achieved.  In the past there were also gear lever locks and even manual locks to cut off fuel supply from within the cabin.  Yes, a number of devices available in the past,  supposedly replaced by modern more convenient locking systems. 

Commiserations to Lukas, who I hope gets his car back soon and undamaged. 

[lfoggy]

30 minutes ago, Barry14UK said:

Commiserations to Lukas, who I hope gets his car back soon and undamaged. 

Thanks Barry but I am not optimistic. New car then. Not ready for full electric yet as I do some long rural journeys. Quite liking the Jaguar or Range Rover plug-in hybrids but they are not great value for money compared to an RX. Probably a new 2021 RX when the insurance pays up. It was insured with Lexus insurance and they are saying it will take a week so not too bad.

[stringbender]

Terrible news. At home I keep all 3 keys in a metal tin which I then put inside a Le Crueset cast iron cooking pot. So far I haven't managed to cook the keys ! I can put this anywhere in the car with 2 keys in it and then lock the car with the 3rd so I know it works.

There are some advantages to keyless entry but finding your pride and joy gone must be a terrible shock.

Alan

[ColinBarber]

13 hours ago, Herbie said:

Your key fob is constantly transmitting a signal, 24/7, that the car is looking for. Even if those keys are at the back of the house, someone stood at the front of the house with a relay box will be able to pick up that signal, which is then amplified and sent out again to a guy stood by the car with another box of electronics that now pretends to be the key. Doors unlock, car starts, and it'll keep running until it either runs out of petrol or the criminals turn it off, whereupon they won't be able to get it going again.

The outcome is the same but it is the vehicle that is constantly transmitting, the key is just listening and responds when it hears the vehicle.

[ColinBarber]

15 hours ago, Herbie said:

Sadly, not all metal boxes are created equal when it comes to this and there are a couple of videos (maybe more) on YouTube showing that, say, a biscuit tin is no good. Best results come from a metallic mesh or if the biscuit tin is lined with aluminium cooking foil.

It's pretty easy to test. Take you box, with the key inside, to the vehicle and see if it will unlock.

[Phil xxkr]

Very very sad indictment of the times, makes you question the value of owning anything nice or of value!

Prompted me to look for rfid wallet /fob case. Anyone found one that works? Cheers Phil 

[H3XME]

Sorry to hear that.

This little pouch is the most cost effective solution. When the key is in the pouch you can stand right next to car and it won't unlock. (keyless entry) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Blocker-Faraday-Keyless-Blocking-Protection-2-x-Signal/dp/B076KZF645/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=key+pouch+anti+theft&qid=1615283697&sr=8-3