Flat battery issues - IS300H - 2019

[Hadrian]

Something else to be aware of.

I had my IS300h in for a service yesterday at my local dealer. There were thankfully no problems with it, but there is one thing they couldn't do, and which I need to go back for.

That was the hybrid health check.

I imagine what must happen when the Battery has gone flat or been disconnected, is that the stored data on how the hybrid Battery has been performing is lost and needs to be built up again. So I need to go back when I've done 500miles, which in my case will be about six months 😄😄

[Bob99]

I have also a problem with losing the hybrid data. A couple of years ago my car failed the hybrid health check, I was asked if I had run out of fuel at some point and also if I had left the car in neutral both of which my answer was no. These are stock questions from the manual. After the build up of mileage again it was tested and all was fine but I was still trying to understand the reason. It came to me a few weeks after, I wanted to move my car a couple of feet to get behind it. I started the car and moved it to the new position, the car was running on electric. I stopped and pressed the start/stop button just as the engine fired, I waited a little then pressed the start button again everything was ok so let the engine run a little then turned it off, I didn’t think anything off it. I think the quick shutdown caused the computer system to believe the engine had run out of fuel, I am always careful now if I have to do a quick manoeuvre and sometimes will wait for the engine to fire.

[ColinBarber]

11 hours ago, Hadrian said:

Something else to be aware of.

I had my IS300h in for a service yesterday at my local dealer. There were thankfully no problems with it, but there is one thing they couldn't do, and which I need to go back for.

That was the hybrid health check.

I imagine what must happen when the battery has gone flat or been disconnected, is that the stored data on how the hybrid battery has been performing is lost and needs to be built up again. So I need to go back when I've done 500miles, which in my case will be about six months 😄😄

It has caught a few people out. They rely on the hybrid system to identify many of the faults that can occur itself and if fault codes have been reset (either purposely or due to a flat battery) then the full health of the hybrid system cannot be determined. Until the majority of self tests and conditions have been met that could expose a problem, health cannot be guaranteed so Lexus use a 500 mile minimum distance - by which point they are happy that if a fault hasn't occurred by then, the system is good. 

[iousin009]

Hi Members,

Quick update.

Apparently batteries are out of stock with an unknown ETA, have rang 6 different Lexus dealerships, they all say the same thing.

My Dealer gave me an option to get a Battery replaced (without invalidating the warranty) with either Halfords or Kwik-Fit. Have approached Halfords they are reluctant to touch as it's a Lexus. They once did it and the car didn't start and have to be towed to Lexus service centre.

Kwik-fit are happy to put in the following Battery. Which looks to be not an AGM

https://www.kwik-fit.com/batteries/search/details/030

Having the feedback of Halfords I'm having second thoughts.

What I came to understand from reading on these forums that, this is just a starter Battery whose function is to only boot the lexus computer and put the car in ready state. There are some peeps who have successfully put various batteries including AGM and Mobility scooter batteries as well. So any Battery should be good to fit?

Have found a close match of an AGM Battery as per my existing Battery dimensions is:

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/batteries/car-batteries/halfords--096agm-start%2Fstop-agm-12v-car-battery-5-year-guarantee-548638.html

I could just ask Halfords to fit the above and I'm responsible if something happens.

Any thoughts/suggestions is much appreciated

Thanks

[Herbie]

As long as it physically fits in the Battery tray, can be clamped down, and the terminals are in the correct orientation then yes, it should be fine.

12VDC is 12VDC is 12VDC. Halfords probably broke something else in the example above.

[Thackeray]

1 hour ago, iousin009 said:

They once did it and the car didn't start and have to be towed to Lexus service centre.

Maybe they didn't notice that the Battery they were installing had the polarity of the terminals reversed. I believe this can cause major issues - not just "it won't start". The problem can happen because although the layout of the terminals looks the same, when you look closely the position of positive and negative is reversed. I think there was a thread on here where someone describes connecting up to a new Battery like this. I think the car needed a lot of repairing afterwards.

As long as the positive cable is connected to the positive terminal and negative (earth) cable to negative terminal it should be ok.

(I didn't notice initially but looking back, I think this is what Herbie meant when he said "the terminals are in the correct orientation". I don't think he meant "make sure they're pointing upwards"!)

[Herbie]

9 minutes ago, Thackeray said:

(I didn't notice initially but looking back, I think this is what Herbie meant when he said "the terminals are in the correct orientation". I don't think he meant "make sure they're pointing upwards"!)

That's quite correct William.

[Thackeray]

2 hours ago, iousin009 said:

Any thoughts/suggestions is much appreciated

You probably already know this but you don't need a Start/Stop Battery. Basic batteries are designed to be powerful enough to crank the engine once. Start/Stop batteries have to crank the engine repeatedly during a journey in stop/start traffic. So they need more power.

The hybrid system is the opposite. The 12v Battery never has to crank the engine and as you say it only has to start the computers. The high-voltage Battery does the starting of the engine.

I mention this because although hybrid owners generally know this, I'm not confident that all Halfords staff do. So they may think you need a start/stop Battery for a hybrid car.

Incidentally, I did a search on the Varta website and they recommended a Battery for the IS300h which actually had the terminals the wrong way round for the car!

[iousin009]

Thanks William and Herbie,

I'll go for the Kwik-fit Battery then, start/stop might be an overkill.

Is this the Varta Battery you've searched for?

I'll also check with Kwik-fit if they are happy to fit a Battery bought from outside.

Cheers.

[Thackeray]

10 hours ago, iousin009 said:

Is this the Varta battery you've searched for?

Yes, that's the one that came up. It's the same capacity, 45Ah,  as the Toyota replacement (28800-YZZQX) and it looks a similar size. But the positive is on the left, looking at the front, rather than on the right in the Toyota one. It might be difficult to connect the terminals even if it was possible to put it in back to front.

[iousin009]

1 hour ago, Thackeray said:

But the positive is on the left, looking at the front

Thanks, makes sense. The position of the terminal also matters not just the size of the Battery.

[LovingLexus]

22 hours ago, Thackeray said:

Yes, that's the one that came up. It's the same capacity, 45Ah,  as the Toyota replacement (28800-YZZQX) and it looks a similar size. But the positive is on the left, looking at the front, rather than on the right in the Toyota one. It might be difficult to connect the terminals even if it was possible to put it in back to front.

This is correct one if you want non AGM ( with terminals as per original side) 

https://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/product/varta-blue-dynamic-b32-car-battery/

 

[Bootleg]

Any updates on experience of non Lexus batteries?

My Battery is now well and truly done for. Below 10v in 2 days. 

Lexus had it in twice last year and all they did was charge it up and tell me to use it more. I'm using it 2 or 3 times a week, at least one hour ready mode, and if it goes more than 2 days the alarm goes off and I have to use the booster. 

They're still out of stock, patronising and bloody no help over the phone. 

I contacted Kwikfit who said bring it in and they'd take a look to determine best alternative. 

My brother had his replaced on his RX450h by the AA man when they called out Lexus Roadside assistance. 

[Superduner]

I put this one in:

Amazon.fr : Bosch S4021 Batterie de Voiture 45A/h-330A

I've also fitted a Battery monitor:

Amazon.fr : TONWON Testeur de Batterie, 12V Bluetooth Automobile Charge Testeur de Batterie Analyseur Numérique Mal Pile Outil de Test

which really has helped me to work out what's going on under the bonnet.  Can't recommend it enough as a diagnostic tool.

When I get some time, I'll post up my findings on the whole Battery issue, but basically, the Toyota recommendation of an hours running a week (in park, stationary) is only just enough to maintain the minimum acceptable charge.  To get a "full" charge, you would need at least a 5 hour run in the car - or a session on a good Battery charger once a week.  My Ctek took 5 hours to charge a new Bosch from the "one hour car charge" level to full.  It took 8 days to go down from a "car charge" to 12v.  So maybe 2 weeks from a full "charger" charge, if that makes sense.

Note - the car was absolutely fine starting at this Battery level.

If anyone is interested, I'll post the voltage graphs over 8 days of non use.

It is clear to me though that you have to use the car an awful lot to maintain anything like the full rated charge, and in winter, with lights and so on, it may not even be possible.

 

 

[Superduner]

12 hours ago, Bootleg said:

My battery is now well and truly done for. Below 10v in 2 days. 

You might be lucky with recovery mode on a good Battery charger (Ctek being one). Leave it on for a couple of days and repeat if necessary

[Bootleg]

14 hours ago, Superduner said:

I put this one in:

Amazon.fr : Bosch S4021 Batterie de Voiture 45A/h-330A

 

That's the one the AA fitted to my brothers car.

14 hours ago, Superduner said:

Amazon.fr : TONWON Testeur de Batterie, 12V Bluetooth Automobile Charge Testeur de Batterie Analyseur Numérique Mal Pile Outil de Test

which really has helped me to work out what's going on under the bonnet.  Can't recommend it enough as a diagnostic tool.

If anyone is interested, I'll post the voltage graphs over 8 days of non use.

It is clear to me though that you have to use the car an awful lot to maintain anything like the full rated charge, and in winter, with lights and so on, it may not even be possible.

I'd be interested. I agree. I ran the car in Ready mode for 2 hours and a run of 1 hour and it held it's charge better, so the 1 hour recommendation could be too low. CTEK charger on order.

Thanks

[LenT]

2 hours ago, Bootleg said:

CTEK charger on order.

Did you order the additional charging leads?
These can be connected directly to the Battery posts and merge into a single plug.  This connects to a similar connector from the CTEK.

it means that you simply connect the two without having to touch the Battery posts.

We have two cars and by fitting both with these connectors I can swap the CTEK from one to the other without worrying about the Battery connection.

Just a thought...

[Bootleg]

3 hours ago, LenT said:

 

 

3 hours ago, LenT said:

Did you order the additional charging leads?
These can be connected directly to the battery posts and merge into a single plug.  This connects to a similar connector from the CTEK.

It comes with the comfort connect eyelets if that's what you're referring to.

[LenT]

27 minutes ago, Bootleg said:

 

It comes with the comfort connect eyelets if that's what you're referring to.

Yes, you’re right.  I remember now that I ordered an additional one so that I could simply swap the charger from car to car.

However I now see that CTEK has an ‘Indicator Eyelet’ which has a three traffic light system that gives a constant indication of the Battery charge.  So you don’t even have to connect the charger to discover the state of charge.

Wish I’d known about that!  🙁

[Superduner]

2 hours ago, LenT said:

However I now see that CTEK has an ‘Indicator Eyelet’ which has a three traffic light system that gives a constant indication of the battery charge.  So you don’t even have to connect the charger to discover the state of charge.

It doesn't take much of a drop in Battery charge for the traffic light to turn red, in my experience.  Definitely (or definately for LoD fans) not to be relied on - far better to use a permanent Battery monitor as referenced above.

[Mincey]

1 hour ago, Superduner said:

Definitely (or definately for LoD fans) 

Snigger :-)

[LenT]

4 hours ago, Superduner said:

It doesn't take much of a drop in battery charge for the traffic light to turn red, in my experience.  Definitely (or definately for LoD fans) not to be relied on - far better to use a permanent battery monitor as referenced above.

Doh!  Too late - just ordered them...

But I did check out some reviews before doing so - not that I rely solely on reviews, of course.  After all, I’ve contributed a few myself. 🙂

But when you have eight negative one stars and several hundred five stars - well, they can’t all have been written by CTEK.

What CTEK does say is that a battery needs at least a couple of hours with the ignition off to stabilise and enable the system to give a correct reading.  This does seem to have been overlooked by some of its critics.

There’s also the question of ease of use.  At the moment, checking the Battery state involves running a cable out to the car and connecting the CTEK. At which point you might as well leave it connected.  But I’m not going to do that check if it’s raining - or likely to.

Far easier to just glance at an LED and then decide.

In any case, it’s still basically a cheap, effective charging connection and not an additional and costlier metering device that has to be connected to the Battery.

Finally, and most importantly, definately instead of definitely is one of the more common spelling mistakes because that’s how it is often pronounced!  As it’s also detectable by an auto correct system, it wouldn’t even be a reliably consistent error by the same individual.  

[Superduner]

2 hours ago, LenT said:

Finally, and most importantly, definately instead of definitely is one of the more common spelling mistakes because that’s how it is often pronounced!  As it’s also detectable by an auto correct system, it wouldn’t even be a reliably consistent error by the same individual.  

I was watching the last episode of LoD last night and said exactly that to my wife.  It's pretty inconceivable that a senior police officer would have made that mistake consistently over a long period of time.  Just one of the plot holes....

Maybe I have a faulty one, or maybe, as I've said before, the RX400H tends to run with a lowish base charge in normal use.  I'll be interested to see how you get on with it - and for sure it's way more convenient to use regularly.

[iousin009]

On 5/2/2021 at 12:58 PM, Bootleg said:

Any updates on experience of non Lexus batteries?

Hi,

The kwik-fit Battery which on their website show compatible had width of 174mm, my existing Battery width is 125mm, I'm not sure how they were going to fit 170mm+ width Battery in here, so have hold on. Just waiting for the Battery to become available in a Lexus dealership and then will make a booking.

You need to do some tests and approach the dealer with the numbers then only the dealer will be convinced to replace it, I had to do the same then the dealer agreed for replacement.

As my car is less than 2 years old, I'm reluctant to fit any Battery outside lexus dealership. If you'd like to go for it then bosch recommendation from David should be able to fit, please check the dimensions though.

[Bootleg]

The Ctec charger has arrived. I assumed I'd have an AGM Battery, but there is no obvious indicator of this, or model number, though not much of the Battery is on show. Any ideas? The charging cycles are distinctly different between normal and AGM so I'm assuming i need to set the mode correctly.