Tranmission Oil - Anyone?

[m4rkw]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

You talking cross purpose. If only 2L of fluid being drained and refilled (which I consider waste of time for many reasons), then filter won't be changed and could not be changed. To change the filter you must remove fluid pan and replace gasket and refill ~3.5L of fluid.

For once we agree! I don't think there's any point in doing this without replacing the filter.

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

To change the filter you must remove fluid pan and replace gasket and refill ~3.5L of fluid.

You only get another 0.5 L at most in the bottom of the pan unless it wasn't drained correctly or vehicle not level.

[Linas.P]

1 minute ago, ColinBarber said:

You only get another 0.5 L at most in the bottom of the pan.

Not sure what you mean... if you just take the pan out all the fluid in gearbox will drain, which is ~3L in total. When you put everything back together and refill you will needs ~3.5L of fluid to to pump it, cycle through the gears and get-it up to temp. Because some of that fluid is simply going to overflow and leak during the process there will be some waste - hence you will need to add little bit more than you drained.

[m4rkw]

5 minutes ago, m4rkw said:

For once we agree! I don't think there's any point in doing this without replacing the filter.

Should probably clarify - for cars with a replaceable filter. If the filter is non-replaceable or the pan cannot be dropped the recommended procedure is a double drain and fill. Each time get it hot, drain, refill and then drive it for a bit to get it hot again and repeat.

[m4rkw]

1 minute ago, Linas.P said:

Not sure what you mean... if you just take the pan out all the fluid in gearbox will drain

Nah there's a fair bit in the torque converter that doesn't come out.

[Linas.P]

2 minutes ago, m4rkw said:

Nah there's a fair bit in the torque converter that doesn't come out.

Yes, that would be another ~3L...

Total is 7.2L in E960A, but half of it stays in torque converter as you said. Still not sure by what Colin means regarding "only 0.5L in the pan"

[ColinBarber]

1 minute ago, Linas.P said:

Not sure what you mean...

Likewise, not sure what you mean. When the engine is off all the fluid in the main part of the transmission sits in the pan. You drain the pan and there is just a little bit left where the lip of the drain is (around 0.5 L). Once you remove the pan no more fluid comes out. 

This is a good pictorial. 

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-3rd-gen-2006-2011/838073-changing-transmission-filter-strainer-diy-w-pics.html

 

[nicnac]

4 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

You only get another 0.5 L at most in the bottom of the pan unless it wasn't drained correctly or vehicle not level.

Let me be clear as one of the few here who as actually done the work and had the sump off and strainer replaced on a number of occasions . 

This filter is actually a large area gauze strainer element in a plastic case . It is called a filter but is akin to a felt filter . It will sieve larger particles from entering the suction pump in the transmission . The idea of the cycling of fluid 3 or four times is to allow the fluid in the torque converter to return to he sump through the valve body etc . Thus by a cycling effect running the car and going through the gears up on stands you can effectivelyreturn  most of the contaminated fluid back to the sump and realistically leave mostly new red fluid in the sump which will be obvious on the next fluid cycle . 

The filter does not necessarily need replacing at 50 k as in my experience it was pretty clean and was no where near a max particle capacity . I woulsd say that the filter could be replaced at a much larger cycle period than the fluid cycle mileage , but if you choose to do it and the fluid cycle period then fair enough . That is the reality of the job . Its up to everyone to listen to the above or not as the case may be.  

[Linas.P]

Those are quite interesting and handy pictures for people who have not seen how it looks and he even cut the filter open to show how it looks inside.

10 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

Likewise, not sure what you mean.

What I mean is - to replace the filter, you will need to drain all the fluid held in transmission (first by undoing the plug and then by removing the pan) - total oil drained will be ~3L. 

Once you assemble everything back together you will need slightly more fluid, because some gets wasted... so again ~3.5L to refill.

Not 2L, not 6L... for ordering I guess 4L is correct just in case it takes longer and more ATF is wasted.

4 minutes ago, nicnac said:

Let me be clear as one of the few here who as actually done the work

Hello there ☝️

I actually did it once as well... I do not pretend to know anywhere near as much as you do, but I did it. Well - some so called (by you) "grease monkeys" did it, but I was watching them by and telling them what to do, because frankly they didn't know any better. Let's say they were just doing it by feel and some "common sense", but I was the one to make sure they follow the steps in procedure.

Regarding filter, as I said mine was pretty much clean after 193k... even the magnets were pretty much clean. I mean there were no visible particles anywhere in the gearbox and only when we took the magnets out and cleaned them, then it was clean that there was some metal dust on the magnets.

Fluid was admittedly quite disgusting and as well little bit of foam was forming when it was draining, which if I am correct should not happen as foaming prevention is one of the key things in ATF.

[nicnac]

11 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Those are quite interesting and handy pictures for people who have not seen how it looks and he even cut the filter open to show how it looks inside.

What I mean is - to replace the filter, you will need to drain all the fluid held in transmission (first by undoing the plug and then by removing the pan) - total oil drained will be ~3L. 

Once you assemble everything back together you will need slightly more fluid, because some gets wasted... so again ~3.5L to refill.

Not 2L, not 6L... for ordering I guess 4L is correct just in case it takes longer and more ATF is wasted.

Hello there ☝️

I actually did it once as well... I do not pretend to know anywhere near as much as you do, but I did it. Well - some so called (by you) "grease monkeys" did it, but I was watching them by and telling them what to do, because frankly they didn't know any better. Let's say they were just doing it by feel and some "common sense", but I was the one to make sure they follow the steps in procedure.

Regarding filter, as I said mine was pretty much clean after 193k... even the magnets were pretty much clean. I mean there were no visible particles anywhere in the gearbox and only when we took the magnets out and cleaned them, then it was clean that there was some metal dust on the magnets.

Fluid was admittedly quite disgusting and as well little bit of foam was forming when it was draining, which if I am correct should not happen as foaming prevention is one of the key things in ATF.

And I hope you cycled the fluid with the car running at the correct temperature dictated by your hooked up Techstream monitor as you cycled the gears , then drained again , measured and filled with the same amount and then run the car again on stands and cycled through the gears and then drained again . Finally when the fluid remains red you can on the last cycle remove the level stack pipe plug at between  39-49 deg c and allow the level to settle to a drip and refit plug . Then you have done it correctly . If you miss out any of this .... for gods sake dont bother whether you are a mechanic or not . 

[nicnac]

8 minutes ago, nicnac said:

And I hope you cycled the fluid with the car running at the correct temperature dictated by your hooked up Techstream monitor as you cycled the gears , then drained again , measured and filled with the same amount and then run the car again on stands and cycled through the gears and then drained again . Finally when the fluid remains red you can on the last cycle remove the level stack pipe plug at between  39-49 deg c and allow the level to settle to a drip and refit plug . Then you have done it correctly . If you miss out any of this .... for gods sake dont bother whether you are a mechanic or not . 

 

Tr Fill.pdf

[Linas.P]

5 minutes ago, nicnac said:

 

Tr Fill.pdf 153.93 kB · 2 downloads

Yes that is procedure I have, the only difference is that I have .ISO service manual with web-navigation and not .PDF file.

[nicnac]

3 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Yes that is procedure I have, the only difference is that I have .ISO service manual with web-navigation and not .PDF file.

The 2 youtube videos I posted and this is all that is needed and are a reasonable representation of what is required . , Fays for the cycle and the second one for the sump removall filter but I doubt if anyone on here bothered to watch them and understand the procedure and what the end game is, . 

[Linas.P]

38 minutes ago, nicnac said:

The 2 youtube videos I posted and this is all that is needed and are a reasonable representation of what is required . , Fays for the cycle and the second one for the sump removall filter but I doubt if anyone on here bothered to watch them and understand the procedure and what the end game is, . 

I am sure your youtube videos are great piece of information for anyone who is planning to do it. However, we still haven't agreed whenever the fluid change is even needed, or when it is needed. 

[m4rkw]

15 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

I am sure your youtube videos are great piece of information for anyone who is planning to do it. However, we still haven't agreed whenever the fluid change is even needed, or when it is needed. 

Lexus technicians largely do agree that it should be done for long-term longevity, it is you who disagrees sir. In any case, this argument is getting very tedious and is probably driving people mad, can we please just agree to disagree? 

[ColinBarber]

11 hours ago, m4rkw said:

In any case, this argument is getting very tedious and is probably driving people mad, can we please just agree to disagree? 

Agreed, I think we can end it here.