IS250 and the E10 petrol exclusion list

[Mr Vlad]

Well I've had a reply from Millers Oils. Hopefully I've attached/ inputted the information which I hope will be of use and help. Dont know how much their additive is yet.

https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/review?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:8dbb28dc-f472-4be0-a011-192c6e2083b3

[Linas.P]

Not sure how using additives for every tank of fuel can make economic sense. Even assuming it is cheap (like £4). And even beyond the cost... that is just a lot of inconvenience always remembering to bring additive to fuel station or to have few of them in the boot at all times... 

Besides E10 does not even hurt the engine (arguable cleans the injectors and carbon better). The only issue with is is that over period of time it can attract water (which is much slower when it is sitting in the sealed tank) and that water can over period of time corrode some parts of fuel pump and maybe fuel lines. This "over period of time"... we talking about what 6 months, maybe 12 months?! And to be honest it is not good idea to leave any fuel for that long in the tank even 100 octane "super premium" fuel. And overall not driving the car for that long hurts it in itself.

So in the end that additive may be useful if for whatever reason you know you not going to be driving the car and you have half-full tank of fuel. Maybe at that point it makes economical sense... but how often does that happen. 

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

Besides E10 does not even hurt the engine (arguable cleans the injectors and carbon better). The only issue with is is that over period of time it can attract water (which is much slower when it is sitting in the sealed tank) and that water can over period of time corrode some parts of fuel pump and maybe fuel lines. This "over period of time"... we talking about what 6 months, maybe 12 months?! And to be honest it is not good idea to leave any fuel for that long in the tank even 100 octane "super premium" fuel. And overall not driving the car for that long hurts it in itself.

Plenty of academic studies have been produced on the advantages and disadvantages of adding Ethanol to fuel. The particular issue why the IS250 cannot cope with E10 is due to lack of water rather than there being too much, and it isn't about how long fuel is held in the tank for.

 

Quote

However some reports account for aluminium corroding in E10 and in 2007 Toyota got reports from USA and Thailand of fuel rails corroding. Toyotas investigation showed ethanol fuel with low water levels to be the main reason for corrosion to occur, however no underlying mechanisms could be discerned or governing parameters pointed out. Toyota solved the problem by changing the coating on the fuel rails.

https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:720728/FULLTEXT01.pdf

 

Quote

In particular, aluminum should be avoided. First-generation direct-injection fuel systems with aluminum rails do not tolerate ethanol (ETP 2011). Corrosion product of aluminum forms a gel. Water may suppress the reaction between alcohol and aluminum

https://www.iea-amf.org/content/fuel_information/ethanol/e10/e10_compatibility/

 

Quote

In 2011, ADAC found that the high pressure fuel pump (which we understand was renewed at the start of the trial) of its E10-incompatible 2.2-litre Opel/Vauxhall Signum test vehicle failed after 27,000 kilometres of running on 10% bio-ethanol. It is thought that aluminium components within the high pressure fuel pumps on early GDI vehicles are vulnerable to ‘corrosion attack’ and ADAC found that this can be triggered after a single refuelling with E10, which becomes unstoppable in most cases. 

https://www.iea-amf.org/content/fuel_information/ethanol/e10/e10_compatibility/

[Mr Vlad]

Yeah good points. It's struck me what differences are in a 2007 is250 and let's say a 2009 is250 that E10 is not suitable for the 2007 Yet it Is suitable in the 2009. Does the 2009 car have different materials in the fuel system? This is a weird situation regarding E10 fuel.

[Mr Vlad]

Ahhhh fuel rail coating differences. One wonders if Lexus would make a considerable contribution to an updated fuel rail on our cars.

[65mike]

Hi all.

Just a update.

This is what my local Lexus dealer said see below.

Good morning.

Thank you for your email

I have heard nothing about this and no info available at this time

I'm sure Lexus will notify any customers if this will affect your cars

I do hope this helps

Regards 

Senior Service Advisor
Service Department

Lexus Hatfield

[Sundance]

2 hours ago, 65mike said:

Hi all.

Just a update.

This is what my local Lexus dealer said see below.

Good morning.

Thank you for your email

I have heard nothing about this and no info available at this time

I'm sure Lexus will notify any customers if this will affect your cars

I do hope this helps

Regards 

Senior Service Advisor
Service Department

Lexus Hatfield

Thanks orangutan Mike, may I suggest that Hatfield's response kind of confirms the experience that a lot of us will have had with Dealerships, not specifically Lexus, but in general. 🙄

[Ozzay]

So Super Unleaded like V-Shell/Ultimate/Momentum won't be affected would they

[Mr Vlad]

No Oz. We'll have to use the super unleaded petrol. 

[MartinH]

On 3/1/2021 at 7:53 PM, ColinBarber said:

Toyota solved the problem by changing the coating on the fuel rails.

Well now here's a twist to this ongoing discussion. After the catastrophic failure of my 2007 IS250 last year, Lexus Edgware Road replaced the fuel rails (along with lots of other stuff). I would assume that the parts used would be the revised (coated) items, so I would therefore now be able to fuel the car with this latest poisonous petrol?

I would add that the engine is now really wonderfully smooth and linear in its power delivery — not that it was poor before.

[johnatg]

But what about the fuel pump? 

[Sundance]

19 minutes ago, MartinH said:

Well now here's a twist to this ongoing discussion. After the catastrophic failure of my 2007 IS250 last year, Lexus Edgware Road replaced the fuel rails (along with lots of other stuff). I would assume that the parts used would be the revised (coated) items, so I would therefore now be able to fuel the car with this latest poisonous petrol?

I would add that the engine is now really wonderfully smooth and linear in its power delivery — not that it was poor before.

If it were me I would assume nothing and seek clarification Martin, especially with a Dealership involved, the reply you get from Lexus Edgware Road will be interesting both for us readers and your future fuel options. 🙂

 BTW, if it's not too painful to revisit, what was found to have caused your catastrophic failure? 😳

[MartinH]

7 hours ago, Sundance said:

 BTW, if it's not too painful to revisit, what was found to have caused your catastrophic failure? 😳

You can read the whole sorry saga here.

 

7 hours ago, johnatg said:

But what about the fuel pump? 

That was among the components replaced.

[is250darren]

I own a very early model (2005 55 Reg), and this isn't the best news! 🤮. I am weighing up the pros and cons of keeping it. It has been a brilliantly reliable car, and enjoyable to drive. On the downside: it's a little thirsty, the wheels need refurbing, and the exhaust is starting to blow. It could be a handy backup car ... running on Super Unleaded

[MartinH]

Apparently my car's failure was exceptional so I wouldn't anticipate anything like that in your own case, Darren. Yes it's thirsty but if you're not doing a big mileage that's not so important.  I would get the exhaust fixed before it gets any worse though.

[is250darren]

On 3/24/2021 at 7:20 PM, MartinH said:

Apparently my car's failure was exceptional so I wouldn't anticipate anything like that in your own case, Darren. Yes it's thirsty but if you're not doing a big mileage that's not so important.  I would get the exhaust fixed before it gets any worse though.

Ok, thanks! 🙂