Lexus still advertising IS300h?

[Linas.P]

Kind of weird that they still advertise the model which isn't even available to order. I guess still have a lot of new/old stock in UK?

Car is not even on their page and find out more takes to LSS+ page

Although when it comes to "irresitable performance"... I don't even want to go to that topic 😄 more like "non-existent performance". Why can't they just focus on actual strong point of the car - like quiet and comfortable ride, built quality? Why pretend it is sporty car. Just sets wrong expectations in my oppinion.

[steveo1973]

Why do people slate the performance of the IS300h? Yes its pickup in economy mode is not the best but that's the point of it. Put it in Sport mode and floor it , even use paddles and it keeps up if not faster than most in its class. Well mine is anyway!

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, steveo1973 said:

"keeps up if not faster than most in its class"

Please name me one car in it's class (that is - comparable in price) which is slower.

Why "everyone" slate it - is exactly for a reason I mentioned... Lexus advertises it as sporty car... which it isn't not even by long shot.

Look - IS300h acceleration is "acceptable" for economical car, but fast it isn't and sporty it isn't. And call it "irresitable performance" - is just crazy!

 

[LexIS200Sport]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

Please name me one car in it's class (that is - comparable in price) which is slower.

Guess you've never driven a Jag XE D180  😉

Quite possibly the slowest RWD compact saloon around. Laggiest of turbodiesels.

 

[Linas.P]

No I have not driven Jag, but it is cheaper... significantly... and important thing to consider is - you don't need to buy D180, you have a choice of other engines. With IS... you can have any engine as long as it is 300h. And... if you think that D180 is slow, then... it seems we agree that 300h is sluggish. Slow D180 does 0-60 in 7.8s where 300h does it in 9.2s. Yes I know 0-60 is not everything, but as far as I am concerned D180 is factually faster than 300h.

Let's just be clear - in any comparable way, 300h is slow car... it could be many things, but fast it isn't... not that being fast would make it sporty either, but it is slow as well... and it isn't sporty. I am not saying it is bad car, what I am saying is just that what it isn't... 

Bow back to the point - why would they actively advertise the car which is no longer sold? At least you cannot find it on their page and you cannot order one new to your spec.

[gdh300]

Whatever its current availability, I suspect that Lexus in the UK felt the pressure of the marketing budgets of BMW and VW/Audi. Mainstream reviewers are skewed by"he who pays the piper calls the tune" and motoring journalist just love a sporty car for the six hours they are driving it. And so sporty sells, and comfy doesn't. And affordable PCP sells, and 10 year reliability doesn't. So Lexus promoted the IS as sporty, even if it isn't, because they feel they had to. Comfy and reliable is for losers! You are a tiger!!

[paulrnx]

Have to agree with Linas. An IS300h is not a fast car. It’s ok. Not fast though. If comparing with an XE you’d have to compare with the 2 litre petrols. One develops about 200bhp the other 250bhp. I’ve owned an XE with the older 240bhp petrol but have driven all three extensively. An IS300h wouldn’t get near them in terms of performance. Nothing wrong with an IS300h in isolation but it wouldn’t get near an equivalent BMW, Merc, Audi or Jaguar. You can’t compare with diesels because the power delivery is totally different. That said a 320D would also show an IS300h a clean pair of heels. 

[Linas.P]

...and as I said before - IS300h does not need to be fast to be good car, there are plenty reasons to like it and to buy it. What it has is sufficient for just cruising on motorway or driving around town. Overtaking on A road... I would think twice, but strangely it does actually have good response and torque from electric engines, so depending on situation it may be alright.

But "irresitable performance", that would be something fitting for maybe Ferrari, or Nissan GTR... not only that they are fast cars, but as well because performance is kind of their thing, not confort, not luxury, but performance... so it just makes sense that car which does 0-60 in 2.9s claims "irresitable performance" in marketing material, not so much when numbers are the other way around.

You know... it is like reading something along the lines "amazing fuel economy" in V12 Aston Martin marketing material... like... really?! That is what you thought was defining feature of the car?!

21 minutes ago, gdh300 said:

Whatever its current availability, I suspect that Lexus in the UK felt the pressure of the marketing budgets of BMW and VW/Audi. Mainstream reviewers are skewed by"he who pays the piper calls the tune" and motoring journalist just love a sporty car for the six hours they are driving it. And so sporty sells, and comfy doesn't. And affordable PCP sells, and 10 year reliability doesn't. So Lexus promoted the IS as sporty, even if it isn't, because they feel they had to. Comfy and reliable is for losers! You are a tiger!!

But in that case, maybe Lexus should focus little bit more on performance, so that they would not need to lie in their marketing material.

And as for short term user and finance, sadly that is true - manufacturers makes most money from new car sales and honestly they could not care less what second hand car buyers (like us) thinks about them. We do not make money for them, new car sales does. And for new car buyer the reliability isn't really an issue as long as car lasts 3, 4 maximum 5 years and 60k miles, which are warranted anyway. And most of those cars do... sure enough they all fall apart shortly after 60k miles, but that may even be by design... they don't really want you keep driving it, they want you to buy new again... and what poor sucker does with second hand money pit isn't really important. 

[Bounce75]

2 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Please name me one car in it's class (that is - comparable in price) which is slower.

Why "everyone" slate it - is exactly for a reason I mentioned... Lexus advertises it as sporty car... which it isn't not even by long shot.

Look - IS300h acceleration is "acceptable" for economical car, but fast it isn't and sporty it isn't. And call it "irresitable performance" - is just crazy!

 

Audi A4 35 TFSI S line is similar in price & slightly slower 0-60, I know I test drove one.

Nice car, but not a Lexus I am afraid & they are everywhere.

Also remember performance is not just about speed, handling comes into it as well & the IS is very good in that dept.

I am not having a dig or anything, after all I have only owned mine for 2 weeks 😃, but to me it is a really top quality car & great to drive.

[Linas.P]

No it is not slower - 35TFSI does 0-60 in 8.6s... so it is still faster than 300h... and it costs (from) £29k , IS300h when it was available started from £37k, so you comparing 2 different things. For £37k comparable A4 would be much faster. Whenever it feels faster, that is another matter, I cannot compare as I have not tried Audi, but I tried BMW 320d (and it was noticeably faster and better handling) and MB C200, which was faster and more comfortable, although more floaty. I was told you really need to get upgraded suspension on Merc for it to handle properly. One funny thing thought - in my experience MB C200 (and even E300) are more economical than 300h, despite not being hybrid. Sure in pure city traffic 300h has slight edge, but on mixed use mercs are amazingly efficient and E300 in particular doesn't even feel sluggish and has good response (despite still being just 2l turbo with 9-speed box).

Just to save time, slowest BMW 318i does it in 8.4s, slowest MB C200 does it in 7.7s and they are significantly cheaper. I would not say Lexus is the slowest car in it's class just to annoy somebody, sadly it is true. I mean 9.2s is truly unbelievably slow, especially considering that is the sole engine option and car suppose to be "sporty". 

IS handling is "okey", it is not amazing but it isn't bad either. I certainly cannot complain, but there are better handling cars. And... yes I agree - Audi would suck as it is FWD and FWD (or AWD for that matter) always kills car handling and steering feel. 

[Mincey]

I thought it was 8.3 seconds to 60. All that off the line timing and going around corners on rails stuff doesn't really bother me. If I want speed, I'll book a supercar experience at Thruxton and take something Italian for a spanking. I just want something which will get me from A to B without having to take a break on the hard shoulder waiting for the AA to arrive, something which is comfortable for myself and any passengers, and something which has the potential to last me many years without falling to bits or being a money pit. The IS300h ticks all those boxes perfectly. 

[Bounce75]

I don’t know where you are getting £37k from, top of the range maybe?

0-60 in IS 300h is 8.3 secs, I don’t know where you got the 9.2 from?

The Audi A4 35 TFSI I test drove was over £33k so to me it was comparable & slightly slower.  

 

 

[paulrnx]

For me it’s not so much the outright performance although this is one aspect. It’s more the part-throttle response, ie how far you have to press the accelerator to elicit a bit of go from the car. The IS300h is particularly bad in this respect unless in Sport mode and even then there is still a fairly non linear relationship between accelerator position and forward momentum. You do get used to it and for many it’s not a problem.

I always felt that I was driving round in a compact sports saloon with good handling and a fairly firm ride but without the strong powertrain to go with it. I found that facelift cars perform better than pre-facelift cars. The bare figures didn’t change but there was no doubt in my mind that a facelift car has more assistance from the electrickery than a pre-facelift car which makes it feel more torquey in terms of delivery.

I seem to be much less bothered about this in my NX possibly because the car is more wafty and I don’t drive it as hard.

I think if you’re looking for performance and have owned and driven a lot of fast vehicles an IS300h could be a bit of a disappointment. If you are moving from something with similar performance you probably wouldn’t.

An IS300h never feels like it has 220bhp to me. Jump into an Audi A4 2.0 TFSI with 220bhp and you’ll feel what a real 220bhp offers.

[ColinBarber]

10 hours ago, Linas.P said:

No it is not slower - 35TFSI does 0-60 in 8.6s... so it is still faster than 300h... and it costs (from) £29k , IS300h when it was available started from £37k,

Why skew facts to make your argument? We all know the IS300h isn't a performance car, and if you believe any manufacture's marketing department you are in for a sad awakening.

However the IS300h has a 0-62 time of 8.3 seconds at launch and 8.4 seconds later, due to more emission restrictions. To compare against European manufacturers that quote 0-60 times you need to take off around 0.3 seconds to account for the 0.2 second difference so the IS300h is around 8.1 seconds 0-60.

The list price of the IS300h at launch was £29.5k, the last UK price list has the base model at £33.3k on the road, no where near £37k.

[steveo1973]

The Is300h 0 - 60 time is 8.2 secs not 9.2. Check your research.

I've owned BMW, Mercedes, Audi and Jaguar. I've just part ext my BMW 3 series and that had a stage 1 chip to 200 bhp for my is300h. The lexus is a far better car and holds it own in sport mode against all of the above. Yes its a 2.5 but it doesn't matter they are the cars its aimed at!

If your such a Lexus hater/moaner then why are you a member of this site.

Yes we can all see that if they wanted the is300h to be a sports car it wouldn't have a limited top end of 120mph. But its not a sports car. It a luxury car but has enough grunt to keep up with its competitors.

[steveo1973]

1 hour ago, steveo1973 said:

 

 

[Brechin Slate]

I discovered after years of IS ownership that IS stands for Intelligent Sport.  I know that the original post was about discontinuing the model and I for one am sad that it's happened but I will say that I didn't by mine for performance/sportiness, it was purely refinement and reliability and it has both in spades.

[steveo1973]

1 hour ago, steveo1973 said:

 

Absolutely agree, if you want a sports performance car buy another brand. All I can say about my IS300h is as you've stated, its refinement and driving experience.

Its also nice to own something you don't see every day on the roads. You have to be a certain sort of person to buy one of these, or just fed up with the competition. I was fed up with looking at every other car on the road being the same as mine. Thats one of the reasons I took the plunge.

For me its got everything!

[Brechin Slate]

When people ask me why I chose a Lexus I tell them that for a year I worked as a plater when I was between 'proper' jobs.  A plater is a delivery driver who picks up cars and takes them from the owner to an auction site or transfers them between dealers and auction sites or vice versa but you get the picture.  In that year I drove hundreds of cars, sometimes 5 a day and sometimes just 2 a day on longer journeys but what I did get was a lot of different driving experiences.  From Motability Smart cars to S class limos from the Russian embassy in London, from supercars to granny mobiles I drove them all but nothing felt as good as getting in a Lexus and being confident that I'd not only get to my destination but in comfort.

Once the burst of exhilaration at flooring a 911 or Maserati was over I realised that there was more to driving than acceleration or top speed and having been a passenger in a navy fast jet even that was ho hum after the adrenaline wore off.  I could have bought pretty much anything that the market had to offer but it was the Lexus brand that stood out after a year of intensive study.  Performance? Yes up to a point but it's not the be all and end all that motoring journos major on.  I remember one of our really good Sea King pilots wearing a tee shirt that said 'Jets are for kids', there's an analogy there somewhere.

[Linas.P]

Sorry, I made mistake regarding the 0-62 times, yes indeed it is 8.4s (8.2s 0-60). I don't know why in my head I thought it is 9.2s... 

6 hours ago, Mincey said:

on rails stuff doesn't really bother me. If I want speed, I'll book a supercar experience at ...

That is besides the point. Lexus states it is "irresistibly performance", they are the ones who are claiming you can expect super car experience, not me. I know car is slow and the only point I am trying to make  - it is many things, but it isn't fast!

4 hours ago, Bounce75 said:

I don’t know where you are getting £37k from, top of the range maybe?

 

3 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

The list price of the IS300h at launch was £29.5k, the last UK price list has the base model at £33.3k on the road, no where near £37k.

Base model was not available in 2020, you can only order F-sport and ~£37k was the price and that is as well what is advertised in the advert I copied. It is irrelevant what the price was at launch in 2013, because at the time all cars were cheaper.

3 hours ago, steveo1973 said:

1. had a stage 1 chip to 200 bhp for my is300h.

2. holds it own in sport mode against all of the above. 

3. If your such a Lexus hater/moaner then why are you a member of this site.

4. But its not a sports car. It a luxury car but has enough grunt to keep up with its competitors.

1. Simply does not exist!

2. No it doesn't! It is many things, but fast it isn't. 

3. I am not hater, but I am not brainwashed fan who would accept any s*** they make. This is not "fan site", it is owners club - I just trying to have informed opinion about good and bad things about the car. When Lexus does something right I will say it is right, when they do something bad, I will say it is bad. That I quoted wrong acceleration time, that is another matter - my mistake.

4. And that was my point. Except it does not have "grunt to keep with competitors", it could barely keep-up with entry level cheapest cars on the list, which are like-for-like cheaper.

1 hour ago, steveo1973 said:

Absolutely agree, if you want a sports performance car buy another brand. All I can say about my IS300h is as you've stated, its refinement and driving experience.

If you first reply would have been as above - I am 100% agree with you! But now you just really confusing yourself - you just argued it is "has grunt and keeps-up if not faster than competition" and studently, you say - it is not sports car!

Just decide for once! So is it fast or isn't it?!

[Linas.P]

The point of this topic was not to complain about how slow IS300h is (which it is), but to discuss why Lexus are marketing model they no longer have?

I knew that me having dig at IS300h performance will attract opinions, but just to be clear - I don't think IS300h is bad car... what I hate is completely stupid and made-up marketing material! And it is not like "I believe in marketing", I just don't understand why advertised the car in a way which detracts from it's strength and focuses on what is arguably it's weakness.

[steveo1973]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

The point of this topic was not to complain about how slow IS300h is (which it is), but to discuss why Lexus are marketing model they no longer have?

I knew that me having dig at IS300h performance will attract opinions, but just to be clear - I don't think IS300h is bad car... what I hate is completely stupid and made-up marketing material! And it is not like "I believe in marketing", I just don't understand why advertised the car in a way which detracts from it's strength and focuses on what is arguably it's weakness.

Well let's agree to disagree! You've  your opinion I have mine. I don't know if you own one but i do and if you watch all the reviews relating to this car you will see that it does keep up with its competitors. I have one and have had the competition as well so may be mines just a one off then.

As I say let's agree to disagree.

[Linas.P]

2 minutes ago, steveo1973 said:

watch all the reviews relating to this car you will see that it does keep up with its competitors.

vs

2 hours ago, steveo1973 said:

Absolutely agree, if you want a sports performance car buy another brand. All I can say about my IS300h is as you've stated, its refinement and driving experience.

I can agree to disagree with you, but you need to agree with yourself first.

What I said was that - IS300h is not performance car... and it seems we both agree with that?! So where do we disagree? 

What we established is that Audi A4 35, is slightly slower, but it is much cheaper as well - any car which costs the same (list price) will be faster. And I can see how Audi, BMW or MB can use "driving experience and performance" in their marketing - they don't advertise particular model, they advertise the range and they give you options, you can get BMW 330i or 340i, or Audi S4 or MB C300 or 43AMG... if you come and choose slowest and worst car (because you don't need speed or sportiness) then it is on you... but when it comes to Lexus it is on them, because they cannot use the same excuse as other makers do when they range consist of single car, they simply do not offer sporty performance version in UK (maybe they forgotten they don't have IS350 here?). So my question is simple - why they advertise it this way.

And my main questions is - why they advertise the car they no longer make?!

I guess it makes sense if they have a lot of stock of new-old cars still around, but from advert I copied there is no way of understanding that this isn't current model, but rather sale of last remaining stock.

[steveo1973]

14 minutes ago, steveo1973 said:

Well let's agree to disagree! You've  your opinion I have mine. I don't know if you own one but i do and if you watch all the reviews relating to this car you will see that it does keep up with its competitors. I have one and have had the competition as well so may be mines just a one off then.

As I say let's agree to disagree.

For the record I said my BMW 3 series had a stage 1 chip not the lexus

[steveo1973]

3 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

vs

I can agree to disagree with you, but you need to agree with yourself first.

What I said was that - IS300h is not performance car... and it seems we both agree with that?! So where do we disagree? 

What we established is that Audi A4 35, is slightly slower, but it is much cheaper as well - any car which costs the same (list price) will be faster. And I can see how Audi, BMW or MB can use "driving experience and performance" in their marketing - they don't advertise particular model, they advertise the range and they give you options, you can get BMW 330i or 340i, or Audi S4 or MB C300 or 43AMG... if you come and choose slowest and worst car (because you don't need speed or sportiness) then it is on you... but when it comes to Lexus it is on them, because they cannot use the same excuse as other makers do when they range consist of single car, they simply do not offer sporty performance version in UK (maybe they forgotten they don't have IS350 here?). So my question is simple - why they advertise it this way.

And my main questions is - why they advertise the car they no longer make?!

I guess it makes sense if they have a lot of stock of new-old cars still around, but from advert I copied there is no way of understanding that this isn't current model, but rather sale of last remaining stock.

I agree that it is not a performance car yes, it never was suppose to be that's why I think the F sport is a waste of time. But I don't agree with you that it can't keep up with its rivals....it can and I've done it.