RX400 to RX450

[nelmo]

I'm considering changing my '07 RX400 for a 2014 RX450 (so not the latest version) but there are a couple of interesting reviews on Auto Trader from owners who say they regretted doing this and I wondered if anyone has an opinion?

The reviews said that the turning circle was worse, car seemed a bit slower and the sat-nav was no longer a touchscreen but had to be entered using the little joystick down by the gear lever?

[Herbie]

Not sure about turning circle but it wouldn't matter to me anyway - just do a 3-point turn, no problem.

Slower? No idea, but plenty fast enough.

Sat nav is indeed rubbish, being counter-intuitive, clunky, slow and outdated but isn't that normal for almost any Lexus?

I much prefer to use Sygic or Waze or Google Maps on my phone as they are kept up to date on an almost daily basis and allow users to report problems that are fed into the system within minutes. Apart from that the little 'mouse' by the gear lever is difficult to use, especially if you're right handed because you have to use this thing with your left hand. When I try to use it it's like some alien has taken over my brain because I know where I want the pointer to be but just can't get my hand to coordinate with my eyes!

The RX450h is newer, brighter and a whole order of magnitude better in every way, sort of car. Seating is more comfortable; layout is much better; lighting is better and so on.

Admittedly, I had an RX300, not a 400h, but apart from the drivetrain they are very similar and I can say that I'm very pleased that I traded up.

[nelmo]

I have a good satnav on my phone as well but the problem with phones is you need a clamp on the dash to hold it, then a wire to charge it. Looks messy and takes time to setup - I much prefer a built-in system. 

[ColinBarber]

The 450h is a little slower, but not much and has less torque steer. It feels slower as there is more sound insulation.

The Nav screen is placed higher up and further away so it is easier to glance at it whilst driving - this makes it out of reach and therefore isn't a touch screen, so yes you operate it via the remote mousey thing. Probably not too bad if you use your computer mouse with your left hand but many do struggle to get use to it.

Surprisingly, given the 450h is slightly larger in wheelbase, the 400h and 450h have the same turning radius of 5.7 m (11.4 m turning circle) - this is the tyre measurement. The body turning circle measurement of the 450h is 12.2 m which I assume is the same for the 400h (as it has the same front overhang measurement) but I cannot find that written down anywhere.

It is the current series IV 450h (2016+) where the turning circle is worse - that is 11.8 m (tyre) and 13.8m (body).

[Herbie]

50 minutes ago, nelmo said:

I have a good satnav on my phone as well but the problem with phones is you need a clamp on the dash to hold it, then a wire to charge it. Looks messy and takes time to setup

I agree that it can look messy but it doesn't have to and can be overcome with a little bit of work hiding the wiring etc., and it's a 'do it once and it's done for good' type of thing so it doesn't need to be done every time.

The actual setting up and use of the navigation is much quicker and easier on the phone. I can input the destination, decide on the route (motorways or not etc), press 'go' and be driving away by phone, before I've even finished inputting the destination on the built-in system. In fact, I only ever use the built-in nav as a sort of rolling screensaver or have it displaying the radio or energy screens.

[Prince Bob]

15 hours ago, nelmo said:

I'm considering changing my '07 RX400 for a 2014 RX450 (so not the latest version) but there are a couple of interesting reviews on Auto Trader from owners who say they regretted doing this and I wondered if anyone has an opinion?

The reviews said that the turning circle was worse, car seemed a bit slower and the sat-nav was no longer a touchscreen but had to be entered using the little joystick down by the gear lever?

The turning circle is not the greatest in the world, but it's not enough of an issue to make parking difficult.

The remote touch takes a little while to get used like an new interface. Journalists tend to moan about it probably because it takes longer than 5 minutes to learn how to use it. It may not be as intuitive as rivals systems but not enough to be a deal breaker.

I will admit the graphics are more Super Nintendo rather than PS5, but isn't it the same for all systems that aren't Google maps? I don't like wires and cradles on dash so I use it instead of a phone. Journey times are accurate and it reroutes around traffic well. Make sure you are sitting down when asking for a quote to update the maps though!

I didn't own a 400h only the 300, so can't compare performance, but a 450h isn't slow. It does has double paned glass so you don't really hear much, doesn't give you the sensation of speed, biy it moves along nicely 

[Greisingel]

“The RX450h is newer, brighter and a whole order of magnitude better in every way, sort of car. Seating is more comfortable; layout is much better; lighting is better and so on.“ Herbie

This has got me thinking about trading up. I sat in a friend’s one last year and it was a notably more luxurious and refined space. Sure, it’s newer and Lexus ironed out some of the Rx400h creases as expected.  I suppose the air suspension comes in for a bit of flack. There’s always some issue or other whatever you get. I’m on autotrader now taking a gander. Lowest comparable prices show RX450 is £3-4K over the starting £4K RX400 lows. It’s got me thinking. 

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, Greisingel said:

Lowest comparable prices show RX450 is £3-4K over the starting £4K RX400 lows. It’s got me thinking. 

You know it make sense! Go on, you know you want to

[KenMavor]

2 hours ago, Greisingel said:

“The RX450h is newer, brighter and a whole order of magnitude better in every way, sort of car. Seating is more comfortable; layout is much better; lighting is better and so on.“ Herbie

This has got me thinking about trading up. I sat in a friend’s one last year and it was a notably more luxurious and refined space. Sure, it’s newer and Lexus ironed out some of the Rx400h creases as expected.  I suppose the air suspension comes in for a bit of flack. There’s always some issue or other whatever you get. I’m on autotrader now taking a gander. Lowest comparable prices show RX450 is £3-4K over the starting £4K RX400 lows. It’s got me thinking. 

...just stay away from the ones I'm looking at.... 🙂

[ThomasLexus94]

I am not sure if this video is helpful but it covers the mk2 and mk4 RX models. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFrFAEzBQ28&t=172s

[nelmo]

Can't watch that - I'd love the mk 4 but can't afford it...

[Greisingel]

Typical. Lovely looking £5,999 175000 miler RX450H nearby has just disappeared off autotrader. 

[Stefan213]

I'm thinking to sell mine 😅 

[jpjsavage]

On 2/11/2021 at 10:47 PM, Stefan213 said:

I'm thinking to sell mine 😅 

If you are thinking of selling, I'm on the look out for one. Do let me know as I'd much prefer to buy one from a club member than go down the dealer sales route. 

[Stefan213]

5 hours ago, jpjsavage said:

If you are thinking of selling, I'm on the look out for one. Do let me know as I'd much prefer to buy one from a club member than go down the dealer sales route. 

I will send you the link as soon as i put it on sale, it's a 2011 SE-L

[Henry W]

Selling our one owner April 2015 3rd gen RX450h F SPORT in Celestrial Blackwith Garnet Red Leather with HUD and as an extra the Mark Levinson sound system

Current mileage is 22068 with full Lexus Ipswich service history

Last service and MOT was 28/07/2020 at 21524 miles

The car has Lexus extended warranty until April 2022

The car is always garaged with CTEK SMART CHARGER connected direct to the 12 volt battery 

we currently use our other car a Shogun

Will take more detailed photos later

 

 

[Greisingel]

13 minutes ago, Henry W said:

Selling our one owner April 2015 3rd gen RX450h F SPORT in Celestrial Blackwith Garnet Red Leather with HUD and as an extra the Mark Levinson sound system

Current mileage is 22068 with full Lexus Ipswich service history

Last service and MOT was 28/07/2020 at 21524 miles

The car has Lexus extended warranty until April 2022

The car is always garaged with CTEK SMART CHARGER connected direct to the 12 volt battery 

we currently use our other car a Shogun

Will take more detailed photos later

 

 

That is car porn. Gorgeous. You’ll be wanting £17-£20K

[Henry W]

Update

Car now sold in 3 days on Autotrader

regards

[F1mo]

At present I have all three gens - waiting to sell my 400h. 

yes what you pointed out regarding the lack of touch screen, user interface, is a step back. I have had an SE-L RX400h and now SE-L RX450h. The boot is larger due to repositioning of the shocks. 

I would not say the car is slower - same engine and new electric motors which makes the newer car more efficient on electric driving. 

Oddly the 2009-2012 models do not have rear LED lights unlike the 400H? 

Steering is lighter and better feel I would say. Also the RX400h handles camber poorly with very notable pull. 450h on the same road driven is drastically better. 

The wind noise on the gen3 is better due to better aero. 

The engine noise is better insulted too.

The RX450 gen 3 also has rear laminated heat reflected glass. 

Audio is much better due to separate sub in the book. If you are lucky to find Mark Levinson, go for it. the Music is outstanding with immersive sounds. (go through settings to tune it for better tones).

The seats on the old 400h here lovely, but on the newer 450h they are stunningly comfortable. I prefer these than the more figure hugging ones on the gen 4. 

SE-L on 450h is stunning especially with Mark Levinson system. However the air suspension while incredible on a motorway can ironically be a bit trashy in town. the Normal suspensions on SE, SE-I are great. 

Avoid the F Sport - the F Sport looks great but the ride is hard and the god awful artificial engine noise. 

I will go with Gen3 over Gen2, I can live with some short comings but over the refinement and drive is so good it does make the gen2 feel old. 

[Illogan]

2 hours ago, F1mo said:

At present I have all three gens - waiting to sell my 400h.

The engine noise is better insulted too.

Avoid the F Sport - the F Sport looks great but the ride is hard and the god awful artificial engine noise. 

I will go with Gen3 over Gen2, I can live with some short comings but over the refinement and drive is so good it does make the gen2 feel old. 

"At present I have all three gens" - - - I think you're just being greedy! 😁

"The engine noise is better insulted too." - I've never insulted my engine - - does it not get upset? (also  😁)

"the F Sport looks great but the ride is hard and the god awful artificial engine noise. " - - I honestly have no idea of what you are describing - - (Now I'm not being funny at all - - but my F-Sport is neither noisy nor artificially noisy!!?)

[Barry14UK]

I think a lot depends on the perception of the driver and how familiar you are with various models/versions.  I have only tried two of the 3rd  Gen Premier cars, and I think they provided a very similar experience.  I wish I had driven cars without Air suspension before buying although that may not necessarily have changed my choice.  I did read road tests which said the RX 450h 3rd Gen was a bit bouncy on the open road generally and did not handle it too well.  I have not found this to be the case on both counts considering it is a heavy high riding vehicle but I don't expect it to go round corners like my BMW5 salon.   However, I do agree with Mo that that the air suspended car is a bit over trashy over uneven roads and road humps, even when driven quite slowly (but maybe the steel sprung version may be too.  

I did read another report where the front seats were stated as being uncomfortable over long distance but I find the seats to be the most comfortable that I have experienced in any car and I have been in many over the years.

I can only repeat my advice to drive different models before purchasing, as different drivers can have different priorities and rate the cars differently in certain respects that affects their overall choice.

[Phil xxkr]

On 2/10/2021 at 6:58 PM, nelmo said:

I have a good satnav on my phone as well but the problem with phones is you need a clamp on the dash to hold it, then a wire to charge it. Looks messy and takes time to setup - I much prefer a built-in system. 

I have a 450h and find my phone with the "Here we go" app a great combo especially speed limit notifications. I use a small magnetic air vent holder and a lead permanently plugged into centre arm rest outlet, very neat and only visible when needed. As to the mouse well I worked for the firm who designed them in the 1970's so I am intrigued almost 50 years later it's still a challenging technology 😉 

You don't use it for hours on end as in an office so is just a case of familiarity and then you find it works well. Although I must confess voice navigation input is a mystery 

[ColinBarber]

14 hours ago, Illogan said:

"the F Sport looks great but the ride is hard and the god awful artificial engine noise. " - - I honestly have no idea of what you are describing - - (Now I'm not being funny at all - - but my F-Sport is neither noisy nor artificially noisy!!?)

I believe it is only the Series IV RX where the F-Sport gains Active Sound Control (ASC) - artificial petrol engine noise through cabin speakers. It can always be turned off if the owner wishes.

[Illogan]

3 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

I believe it is only the Series IV RX where the F-Sport gains Active Sound Control (ASC) - artificial petrol engine noise through cabin speakers. It can always be turned off if the owner wishes.

Ah!    Thank you Colin.......

I had feared that'Mo' may have heard me going "BBBrrrmmmm   BBBrrrmmmm" as I was cruising round Yorkshire's country lanes! (  😉 )

[Greisingel]

Funny talking about RX handling. My RX400H throws a CEL if I hard corner. Still trying to work it out. My Techstream is down so can’t get codes

And I really chuck my 400 about. I’m staggered by the road holding of a big tall car like the 400. I know 2 people who have reverted to 400s and 450s over the Porsche Cayenne (the suv one. I always get muddled with the Cayman)

I sat in a 450H and it was a very superior quality and finish to the now outdated 400. Lovely stitching in black leather seats.

But I’m broke so the £4K I paid for a 100K 400 will have to do for the moment.