Catalysts stolen this morning

[Robbo5]

Woken up this morning just after 5:30 am by a neighbour saying someone had just been down the side of the house and walked off with something.

Checked the CCTV and watched as they jacked the car up and removed both catalytic converters (I take it there is two).

They also jacked up an old MX5 I have and took that one as well.

I’m not the only one, the police had a few calls from people on the estate to let them know.

Just wondering what to do next, claim off insurance and take it to Lexus for genuine parts (£500 insurance excess), cheap replacements from eBay (£250 each) or just a straight pipe for now.

No doubt they will be back to nick the replacements in a few months. I can see a never ending circle.

I’m in the Bolton area and the police said the scum are currently doing the rounds.

Should I expect a warning light when I start the car up?

Robbo.

[Vlady]

Oh my God Ian! This is very raging and make me think what the government is going to do about this, if nothing is done quickly people will just move from hybrids to another cars either electric or normal ICE.

I am sorry to hear that it happened to you. As you say, even if you put new ones in or even a used one what stops the thief to come back next week/month!?

Not much I can advice you here but the whole situation is sad, really sad!

Please keep us posted on your decision and the overall outcome.

Regards

[Robbo5]

Thanks Vlady.

Probably go down the insurance route and pay the £500 excess to get it all replaced properly.

Looking at the cctv again one of them stood by the back door and one by the front door whilst the 3rd one jacked it up and took them both in about a minute and a half.

I’m sure it’s going to happen again and now I’m thinking should I just sell it rather than have the future hassle of it again.

Government will not do anything but I can see a business offering a temporary lend of a cat to get a car through an mot, bolt on bolt off, whilst people drive around with a straight though pipe.

 

[johnatg]

An appalling situation, but please think very carefully about claiming on insurance. It will affect your premiums for years to come, so will cost a lot more than your excess payment today

[The-Acre]

One of the problems with these gangs is the way they come "tooled up" a couple of other members have found them to have machetes or hammers so confronting them isn't worth the risk.

[Robbo5]

5 minutes ago, johnatg said:

An appalling situation, but please think very carefully about claiming on insurance. It will affect your premiums for years to come, so will cost a lot more than your excess payment today

Problem is I have no idea what damage the might have done and what else might need to be done.

Could I forget the cats or will  this cause problems i.e. warning light and mot time.

I have protected ncb but am aware I will still have to declare the claim, wife claimed on her insurance a few years ago after hitting a deer and insurance didn’t go up.

Still trying to decide what’s best way to go about it.

Also no job at the moment so not a lot of spare money.

Suggestions welcomed.

[Boosh.]

We have two hybrids in the family.  You have my genuine sympathy, this is an awful situation.

I have only slight familiarity with the GS450h, but just to put some perspective to what I think will have happened:

https://www.onlineautomotive.co.uk/car-parts/Lexus/GS450H/Exhausts/Exhaust-System

Your exhaust section 'LEX5007H' in the above diagram (of an aftermarket exhaust, because the diagram is clearer than some) has been butchered and the two catalysts within it taken.  There are two further catalysts closer to the engine, and almost certainly harder to get to (I think).  These, LEX1018H and LEX1019H, are probably still intact.

The genuine exhaust part that will need replacing is this one (I think), to give you an idea of price (insurance/non-insurance):

https://lexuspartsdirect.co.uk/parts/lexus-gs/lexus-gs-phase-iii-2005-2012/lexus-gs-3-engine-service-kits/lexus-gs450h-phase-3-exhaust-front-section-and-catalytic-convertor/

There will also be an oxygen sensor required, probably around £140.  And fitting all of this, of course.  They may be other damage to rectify, sadly....

There is no emissions MoT requirement on hybrid cars, I understand, and with the two remaining catalysts the car would likely pass a 'normal car' MoT anyway.  If a custom section without these catalysts was made up to repair the damage, I think the major issue would be if the MoT tester objected to the visible modifications, which other members may have information about.

HTH

[Vlady]

18 minutes ago, Robbo5 said:

Thanks Vlady.

Probably go down the insurance route and pay the £500 excess to get it all replaced properly.

Looking at the cctv again one of them stood by the back door and one by the front door whilst the 3rd one jacked it up and took them both in about a minute and a half.

I’m sure it’s going to happen again and now I’m thinking should I just sell it rather than have the future hassle of it again.

Government will not do anything but I can see a business offering a temporary lend of a cat to get a car through an mot, bolt on bolt off, whilst people drive around with a straight though pipe.

 

They are professionals if it took them a 1.5 minute!

[Robbo5]

Thanks for that Boosh.

So that’s just over £1500 for the parts plus fitting.

Can’t afford that so looks like a call to the insurance company and then probably sell it.

 

[Boosh.]

18 minutes ago, Robbo5 said:

So that’s just over £1500 for the parts plus fitting.

Can’t afford that so looks like a call to the insurance company and then probably sell it.

Yes, around that, perhaps a bit more if you can't get the exhaust section discounted as per that link.

Whilst this probably isn't something you want fixed using anything other than genuine Lexus parts (pride and joy, etc!), someone on the RX forum has done this modification, which is a whole lot cheaper and will prevent this happening again.  You'd probably need 2 pipes making up.  Look at the last photo of the original poster.

 

[johnatg]

There was an interesting post from 'Vrodman' on the 'Tameside' thread - apparently you don't need a cat on a hybrid car! Certainly hybrids are not checked for emissions, but I thought that a removed cat per se would fail an MoT. Anyway, it didn't for Vrodman.

So maybe you (OP) can get away with having an exhaust place fit in a straight pipe to replace the missing cats, at least to get the car mobile. You need to do something to close up the missing exhaust section - or it might be a bit noisy.

If the MX-5 is pre 1995 you don't need a cat and can just get a'cat bypass pipe' - that's what my 1992 one has!

[Robbo5]

Thanks again Boosh.

Might go down this route and have 2 pipe sections made and fitted.

Seeing as it already has 2 cats near the manifold it should be ok come mot time same as mentioned in the linked thread of the RX450h.

[Robbo5]

Johnatg 

That’s what I’m now thinking, straight pipes.

Yes it is a bit noisy, but of a change from near silence.

I’m aware the mx5 doesn’t need one just annoyed they got it before I managed to sell it myself, had this car 20 years and don’t want to get rid of it, want to work on it one day and get it back on the road.

[johnatg]

This won't help at all, but please read it before you contact your insurance company:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/feb/01/catalytic-converter-thefts-hybrid-car-insurance-toyota-prius

[Robbo5]

It all helps Johnatg.

This is why I posted it here for advice and answers.

Does anyone know if there is an oxygen sensor connected to these cats?

If there isn’t then it looks like straight pipes is the way forward and avoid an insurance claim.

Thanks to everyone who has posted so far.

[Boosh.]

I can't see any oxygen sensors monitoring these cats.  The exhaust piece that has been (likely) damaged does have an oxygen sensor at its 'engine' end, but it's for monitoring the previous catalysts, the ones nearer the head.  That design would follow general convention, too.

[johnatg]

Re the thing about not needing a cat on a hybrid for the MoT - here's a link to the Testers' manual

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-private-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles/8-nuisance#section-8-2

See 8.2.1.1 and 8.2.1.2

You don't need a cat and you can remove it.

[Robbo5]

Link to YouTube for video from the CCTV if anyone is interested.

https://youtu.be/Cd7v-dWNa1w

(hope the link works)

[The-Acre]

15 minutes ago, Robbo5 said:

Link to YouTube for video from the CCTV if anyone is interested.

https://youtu.be/Cd7v-dWNa1w

(hope the link works)

It just amazes me how casual they are, even when the outside light comes on!

[Vlady]

This is shocking! Even the snow didn't stop them! Your light, your CCTV didn't stop them! What will then?!

They drive BMW 1 series, is anyone else from your neighbours have a camera so the number plate can be seen? This is one thing that stops me to buy a CCTV, when it's dark you still can't see faces or even the car's number plate. 

Did you take that footage to the police?

[Robbo5]

The police have seen the all footage that I have, cctv from the front, side and back of house.

None of it any use as their faces are covered and the police have said that the car number plate didn’t match the vehicle so probably stolen vehicle using false plates.

The cctv from the back door of the house shows one of them speaking towards his chest so it looks like he had a radio so they’re all probably in communication with each other and even possibly a lookout around the corner of the road.

Cctv just allows you to watch your belongings being stolen.

[ColinBarber]

On 2/2/2021 at 12:38 PM, johnatg said:

Re the thing about not needing a cat on a hybrid for the MoT - here's a link to the Testers' manual

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-private-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles/8-nuisance#section-8-2

See 8.2.1.1 and 8.2.1.2

You don't need a cat and you can remove it.

That's fine for passing the MOT but it is still potentially illegal:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/modifying-your-vehicles-emissions/modifying-your-vehicles-emissions-the-legal-safety-and-health-implications

The vehicle would still need to meet whatever EURO emissions standard the vehicle was first granted, and have emissions within the same road tax bracket it was originally allocated.

[ColinBarber]

On 2/2/2021 at 12:36 PM, Boosh. said:

I can't see any oxygen sensors monitoring these cats.  The exhaust piece that has been (likely) damaged does have an oxygen sensor at its 'engine' end, but it's for monitoring the previous catalysts, the ones nearer the head.  That design would follow general convention, too.

This is correct. There is no monitoring on those secondary cats. The air/fuel ratio sensors are on the exhaust manifold before the primary cats, and the O2 sensors monitoring cat efficiency (highlighted below) are after the primary cats on the front section of the exhaust but quite a way up from the secondary cats that have been stolen

[Vlady]

I am just wondering what can you use as a cutter to remove these cats so quickly and quietly? A grinder? These ones are all so noisy!

[Robbo5]

I think they used something like this

https://www.screwfix.com/p/makita-djr186z-18v-li-ion-lxt-cordless-reciprocating-saw-bare/8334r

The neighbour that phoned the police heard the cutting because I think their bedroom window was open, I heard nothing as my window was shut.