Screen black after battery change

[rayaans]

2 minutes ago, route66 said:

I have Sat Nav - but don't have the Premium setup.

I'm not sure with that one. I don't know if they even get that in the US

[morg75]

Just suffered the same problem in my 2015 IS300 F-Sport with the ML premium system. The Battery kept going flat every few weeks because I wasn't using the car.

I brought a genuine Toyota Battery and changed it, now the multimedia screen is completely blank. None of the suggested fixes have worked (disconnecting the Battery overnight, etc).

Took the car to Lexus who had two attempts to diagnose the problem (only charged me for a hour thankfully despite having it all day). They are suggesting I need a new amp (part number 86280-0W691) priced at £1975). They are looking to see if they can locate another car to swap the amp with to actually prove the fix but they have no idea when they will have a suitable car to try. No fuses have blown.

I don't really understand how the amp would take out the whole system including the display, would expect there to be no sound. The red light on the top of the amp remains lit suggesting it is working.

The CD ejects and the interior lights on the head unit light up. Exactly the same as Rayaans reported. I suspect the radio unit is at fault.

Does anyone have a ML premium amp they wouldn't mind trying in my car to prove the fault is not with the amp?

Has anyone disconnected the ML amp to see if their display screen comes on without the amp connected?

Rayaans can you provide me with the exact part number for the radio unit you purchased, I think I would rather try that first?

It looks like this is a bigger issue that perhaps Lexus want to admit.

[rayaans]

2 minutes ago, morg75 said:

Just suffered the same problem in my 2015 IS300 F-Sport with the ML premium system. The battery kept going flat every few weeks because I wasn't using the car.

I brought a genuine Toyota battery and changed it, now the multimedia screen is completely blank. None of the suggested fixes have worked (disconnecting the battery overnight, etc).

Took the car to Lexus who had two attempts to diagnose the problem (only charged me for a hour thankfully despite having it all day). They are suggesting I need a new amp (part number 86280-0W691) priced at £1975). They are looking to see if they can locate another car to swap the amp with to actually prove the fix but they have no idea when they will have a suitable car to try. No fuses have blown.

I don't really understand how the amp would take out the whole system including the display, would expect there to be no sound. The red light on the top of the amp remains lit suggesting it is working.

The CD ejects and the interior lights on the head unit light up. Exactly the same as Rayaans reported. I suspect the radio unit is at fault.

Does anyone have a ML premium amp they wouldn't mind trying in my car to prove the fault is not with the amp?

Has anyone disconnected the ML amp to see if their display screen comes on without the amp connected?

Rayaans can you provide me with the exact part number for the radio unit you purchased, I think I would rather try that first?

It looks like this is a bigger issue that perhaps Lexus want to admit.

I'll have a look later on for the part number. I doubt it's the amp that usually creates no sound problem 

[Mr Vlad]

I'm surprised Lexus UK hasn't picked up on this totally unusual and unexpected occurrence so they can do a full investigation. Until Rayaans posted the problem I'd never heard of such an occurrence and being a former semi pro car hifi designer and installer (80's and 90's) I'm personally disappointed in Lexus for being rather blazeè (can't spell that word lol) about it and giving  Free diagnostics. 

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, Mr Vlad said:

I'm surprised Lexus UK hasn't picked up on this totally unusual and unexpected occurrence so they can do a full investigation. Until Rayaans posted the problem I'd never heard of such an occurrence and being a former semi pro car hifi designer and installer (80's and 90's) I'm personally disappointed in Lexus for being rather blazeè (can't spell that word lol) about it and giving  Free diagnostics. 

Well I don't think it actually was a problem until car batteries started failing. And even then it's not all of them

[morg75]

Has anyone seen a wiring diagram for the audio system in the IS300H? I would like to understand why a faulty amp could prevent the rest of the system from working.

Lexus report that there are no fault codes displayed in the car. If it was a preventative system shut down because of an amplifier problem (risk of electrical fire) you would expect an error fault code.

[rayaans]

36 minutes ago, morg75 said:

Has anyone seen a wiring diagram for the audio system in the IS300H? I would like to understand why a faulty amp could prevent the rest of the system from working.

Lexus report that there are no fault codes displayed in the car. If it was a preventative system shut down because of an amplifier problem (risk of electrical fire) you would expect an error fault code.

It doesn't. It knocks out the sound.

If there's nothing on the screen then it's more likely to be the radio

 

[morg75]

As expected it is the head unit itself that failed. I bought a second hand unit and fitted it without any issues, even the reversing camera didn't need calibrating.

The bad news is that my unit is the newer style (still Pioneer) with the different shaped knobs and a slightly different lower section.

Interestingly most of the functions on the unit including the car information menus can't be accessed without the SD card fitted.

The Battery draining issues appears to have gone away since the head unit blew up!!!! Suggesting that it is something in the internal power supply that is causing the permanent drain and failing completely once the Battery is removed.

Glad I didn't spend the £2000 on a new amp that Lexus recommended (no return if it didn't fix the problem).

[corpjones]

On 10/13/2021 at 4:11 PM, morg75 said:

As expected it is the head unit itself that failed. I bought a second hand unit and fitted it without any issues, even the reversing camera didn't need calibrating.

The bad news is that my unit is the newer style (still Pioneer) with the different shaped knobs and a slightly different lower section.

Interestingly most of the functions on the unit including the car information menus can't be accessed without the SD card fitted.

The battery draining issues appears to have gone away since the head unit blew up!!!! Suggesting that it is something in the internal power supply that is causing the permanent drain and failing completely once the battery is removed.

Glad I didn't spend the £2000 on a new amp that Lexus recommended (no return if it didn't fix the problem).

Good news that its sorted!

How much was the unit, did you fit yourself?

I think you should ask for a refund for the Lexus diagnostics at the very least, they could have cost you a lot of money and charged you for the privilege.

[morg75]

I was lucky enough to pick up a used one for £220 because it had some damage on the front. I swapped the front panel with my one. Pretty simple just a few clips and disconnect a ribbon cable from a zif connector.

Fitting the head unit was really easy, just the reverse of the removal instructions video earlier in this thread.

I have contacted Lexus to ask if they would like to perform a fault investigation into the original unit for other customers. I await their response.

[corpjones]

19 hours ago, morg75 said:

I was lucky enough to pick up a used one for £220 because it had some damage on the front. I swapped the front panel with my one. Pretty simple just a few clips and disconnect a ribbon cable from a zif connector.

Fitting the head unit was really easy, just the reverse of the removal instructions video earlier in this thread.

I have contacted Lexus to ask if they would like to perform a fault investigation into the original unit for other customers. I await their response.

Please update the thread when you hear back, would be interested to hear their approach 😃

[toffee_pie]

I am an EE and am a bit concerned from these reports, in no way should flat batteries or a Battery replacement fubar you navigation or amp - period

looks like a serious flaw going on here and Lexus need to admit it,  getting used parts as a fraction of the OEM cost is not how one should be dealing with these issues

I would like to see these failed units and see what is going on - It is rather surprising for Lexus tbh as I really rate these vehicles but this doesn't sit quite well with me, and no way on earth would I fork out thousands for a fix

Modern cars can be very finicky on Battery replacements and starting a car with booster leads is usually a no-no, you need a portable Battery pack. And even with that its not uncommon to get an array of Christmas lights afterwards than can usually be reset with some scanners or diagnostic equipment but having actual navigation systems and amplifiers fried is pretty unlikely unless there is some underlying flaw going on.

[rayaans]

49 minutes ago, toffee_pie said:

I am an EE and am a bit concerned from these reports, in no way should flat batteries or a battery replacement fubar you navigation or amp - period

looks like a serious flaw going on here and Lexus need to admit it,  getting used parts as a fraction of the OEM cost is not how one should be dealing with these issues

I would like to see these failed units and see what is going on - It is rather surprising for Lexus tbh as I really rate these vehicles but this doesn't sit quite well with me, and no way on earth would I fork out thousands for a fix

Modern cars can be very finicky on battery replacements and starting a car with booster leads is usually a no-no, you need a portable battery pack. And even with that its not uncommon to get an array of Christmas lights afterwards than can usually be reset with some scanners or diagnostic equipment but having actual navigation systems and amplifiers fried is pretty unlikely unless there is some underlying flaw going on.

I mean it's only happened to 3-4 cars that I can count. Ours was over 7 years old when it did happen so it's hard to tell whether it's a true defect or a random occurrence

[toffee_pie]

1 hour ago, rayaans said:

I mean it's only happened to 3-4 cars that I can count. Ours was over 7 years old when it did happen so it's hard to tell whether it's a true defect or a random occurrence

My engineering brain is saying three things about this

1. Battery changes can cause multiple issues,  its not uncommon on modern cars but most should be easily solvable by either a main dealer or if lucky a diag scanner - not a difficult fix - to reset modules or such
2. Now if the above does not work I am thinking its a s/w bug or issue that is freezing up the unit but then again Lexus scanners can read the ECU from this navigation and should be able to reset it - if they cant its their problem - you should not be in a position where you need to replace the entire thing - or amplifier or whatever
3.  The next thing is damaged hardware, now there will or should have safety features in place to mitigate voltage surges such as TVS diodes and fuses /capacitors -- these could possibly be damaged but not difficult to diagnose or repair, certainly not thousands of pounds - if there is no safety features in place then its entirely possibly the brains of the unit are fried and that is down to a poor design itself. The reason the main fuse is not damaged is voltage surges happen in milli seconds and fuses themselves do not react quick enough - however a TVS diode will.

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, toffee_pie said:

My engineering brain is saying three things about this

1. Battery changes can cause multiple issues,  its not uncommon on modern cars but most should be easily solvable by either a main dealer or if lucky a diag scanner - not a difficult fix - to reset modules or such
2. Now if the above does not work I am thinking its a s/w bug or issue that is freezing up the unit but then again Lexus scanners can read the ECU from this navigation and should be able to reset it - if they cant its their problem - you should not be in a position where you need to replace the entire thing - or amplifier or whatever
3.  The next thing is damaged hardware, now there will or should have safety features in place to mitigate voltage surges such as TVS diodes and fuses /capacitors -- these could possibly be damaged but not difficult to diagnose or repair, certainly not thousands of pounds - if there is no safety features in place then its entirely possibly the brains of the unit are fried and that is down to a poor design itself. The reason the main fuse is not damaged is voltage surges happen in milli seconds and fuses themselves do not react quick enough - however a TVS diode will.

It's a hardware problem. Something in the unit is getting fried. 

The problem is that Lexus won't repair, they'll just charge for a replacement. I'm sure someone who repairs radios could repair it but I didn't find anyone willing to take it on when mine went. 

[Mr Vlad]

And there in lays the problem. Repairing items. Its a dying art unfortunately. I'm generalising here BTW but let's say 20 years ago you could take a radio for inspection and repair. Today? You'd be lucky to find a radio repair shop as Rayaans has experienced. 

What you've stated toffee pie is bang on the money and I agree totally with it.

[toffee_pie]

12 hours ago, rayaans said:

It's a hardware problem. Something in the unit is getting fried. 

The problem is that Lexus won't repair, they'll just charge for a replacement. I'm sure someone who repairs radios could repair it but I didn't find anyone willing to take it on when mine went. 

I would have looked at it - poor on Lexus - looks like a shoddy design and I would be weary of replacing a Battery on any modern Lexus

[toffee_pie]

2 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

And there in lays the problem. Repairing items. Its a dying art unfortunately. I'm generalising here BTW but let's say 20 years ago you could take a radio for inspection and repair. Today? You'd be lucky to find a radio repair shop as Rayaans has experienced. 

What you've stated toffee pie is bang on the money and I agree totally with it.

That is exactly what manufactures want - chuck out broken things with a part that costs 50 pence the culprit and lets charge the customer for the entire unit - same with the fancy modern LED headlights than can do moves that would be a killer in a nightclub - dead unit - sorry sir that is 3 thousand pounds

People still 'fix' things you just need to find them - then send the bill to Lexus HQ and see what they say - even to the HQ in Japan at that

 

[rayaans]

59 minutes ago, toffee_pie said:

I would have looked at it - poor on Lexus - looks like a shoddy design and I would be weary of replacing a battery on any modern Lexus

Hence why it's probably best to take it to them. They only charge £150 for the Battery fitted  but peace of mind 

[toffee_pie]

57 minutes ago, rayaans said:

Hence why it's probably best to take it to them. They only charge £150 for the battery fitted  but peace of mind 

You could save 150 pounds by connecting the new Battery in parallel with the old one thereby not disconnecting any power

 

[toffee_pie]

14 hours ago, rayaans said:

It's a hardware problem. Something in the unit is getting fried. 

The problem is that Lexus won't repair, they'll just charge for a replacement. I'm sure someone who repairs radios could repair it but I didn't find anyone willing to take it on when mine went. 

Do you have the dead unit still? if so take a hi res photo of the PCB and post up here if you can

[rayaans]

14 minutes ago, toffee_pie said:

Do you have the dead unit still? if so take a hi res photo of the PCB and post up here if you can

I sold the dead unit for £150. Think someone must know how to fix it. The second hand part cost me £450. Lexus wanted £4k but then eventually called me 1 week later saying Lexus UK would subsidise to £500 with a 2 year warranty. As I had sold the car at this point it didnt matter to me. 

Lexus quoted £150 for the Battery and to change. I bought the Battery for £117 assuming it was a simple job, which it was but not when the screen didnt turn on.

[Herbie]

Just clutching at straws with a completely wild guess here but...

I know that the screen has multiple uses and is not just associated with the radio but I love music and always have the radio (or other media) playing music whenever I'm in the car, so much so that I literally never turn off the sound system/radio at all.

I'm just wondering if you, Rayann, may be the same and if it could be some sort of 'inrush current' or voltage spike issue and that the radio/sound should be turned off before replacing the Battery?

[toffee_pie]

12 minutes ago, Herbie said:

Just clutching at straws with a completely wild guess here but...

I know that the screen has multiple uses and is not just associated with the radio but I love music and always have the radio (or other media) playing music whenever I'm in the car, so much so that I literally never turn off the sound system/radio at all.

I'm just wondering if you, Rayann, may be the same and if it could be some sort of 'inrush current' or voltage spike issue and that the radio/sound should be turned off before replacing the battery?

if there is a hardware fault it wont make a difference if the radio is on or off - I suspect there is some underlying issue here - TVS diodes absorb voltage spikes, the question is do they have them fitted to the amp  and navi unit - if they don't its like a wtf question. I am developing something for my company now and fitting these to the dc input of anything is a mandatory thing, not only to prevent units getting damaged but to aid them passing EMC compliance and stuff.

I wouldn't pay £4k but would send a stern letter (via a solicitor if needed) as to why a simple Battery change caused this to occur and do Lexus have some problems with the units fitted to the cars and if so why are they asking customers to stump up thousands for replacement parts

[rayaans]

2 hours ago, Herbie said:

Just clutching at straws with a completely wild guess here but...

I know that the screen has multiple uses and is not just associated with the radio but I love music and always have the radio (or other media) playing music whenever I'm in the car, so much so that I literally never turn off the sound system/radio at all.

I'm just wondering if you, Rayann, may be the same and if it could be some sort of 'inrush current' or voltage spike issue and that the radio/sound should be turned off before replacing the battery?

I turn it off every time I get out of the car. And turn it back on sheen needed