Screen black after battery change

[morg75]

If Lexus do not take me up on the offer to investigate the fault I will be taking it apart myself.

However, I suspect that the radio unit was causing the drain, faulty diode, etc. By disconnecting the positive of the Battery I suspect it found a path to discharge the stored charge frying the PSU or something more sensitive. It may be inrush current when the new Battery is connected but any car audio designer should have protected against this reasonably well. 

A Battery saver or connecting the Battery in parallel may have saved the head unit but I suspect I may have been back to the Battery discharging if the head unit is at fault. 

I'm not absolutely convinced that changing the Battery causes the fault, more that it triggers the catastrophic  failure that is waiting to happen because something has already failed. If it isn't that then all IS300H owners are sitting there with a potentially expensive failure waiting to happen.

As Rayaans said the batteries are expensive, you can't buy them in most usual stockists because of their unique size. I wish I had let the dealer do it and hopefully incure the cost of replacing the unit.

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, morg75 said:

If Lexus do not take me up on the offer to investigate the fault I will be taking it apart myself.

As Lexus don't make the unit they will need Pioneer to cooperate, on a device that is now superseded  - and I suspect they have already seen the fault on several occasions as this is not a new issue.

1 hour ago, morg75 said:

It may be inrush current when the new battery is connected but any car audio designer should have protected against this reasonably well.

Yes, I'd like to think Pioneer has this down.

It's likely to be a component breaking down - faulty batch, max. temp/voltage parameters too close to working temp/voltage, the product gets hotting than expected due to vehicle design etc.

[morg75]

Lexus didn't get back to me about my offer. I contacted Pioneer to ask if they could supply the service manual but they said that as it was an OEM unit I would have to contact Lexus for it.

I found a guy in the States selling Pioneer service manuals and I can get one for a similar model but of course it has a different part number in the states. It might be just the buttons on the front panel that are swapped but I am unsure.

I contacted Lexus GB about the issue who fobbed me of about the cost I would have incurred by following their advice to buy an amp. They have directed me to www.lexus-tech.eu which is a subscription service to download manuals. I have to pay by the minute to access technical information and the service manual might be there but they can't tell me.

I have taken the unit apart with no immediate signs of failure but I need the service manual to investigate further and perform the fault diagnosis. Does anyone on this forum have access to website to download the service manual?

The Pioneer service manual required is for their radio part number NXF-9238ZTOM.

[ColinBarber]

3 minutes ago, morg75 said:

They have directed me to www.lexus-tech.eu which is a subscription service to download manuals. I have to pay by the minute to access technical information and the service manual might be there but they can't tell me.

I can tell you that the information you are looking for won't be there. Lexus treat the unit as a non-repairable assembly that is swapped out - you will find removal/installation instruction but certainly no service information for the product itself - only Pioneer would have that and they won't provide it as it is OEM, and even if not they would be unlikely to unless you are an authorised repair centre.

[toffee_pie]

read my last comment on this, as the previous poster said Lexus certainly wont tell you how to repair this.

You will not be able to do much yourself however there are a few tell-tale signs. 

1. Smell it... most repair shops, Electronic gurus smell it, burnt components have a distinct smell

2. The above may lead to diodes or components fried

Now, if the above is no success its pretty difficult, ideally what I would do is power the bugger up and see what is going on - are the power rails working? you will be getting 12V into the unit and it will be chopped down to 5V or 3V3 volts for the Microcontroller - are all the voltage rails present.. if individual components are damaged its an easy enough for me if the parts can be identified from markings

What I think happened is a transient event damaged logic but diodes and specifically TVS diodes should be placed around the input of the supply line to limit this damage, if no diodes are used well that is not a very robust design. If logic is damaged such as the Microcontroller it would explain why its not working and in this case probably not repairable, even if you found a replacement Microcontroller - I have the skills to replace all these SMD parts at work - but it needs to be coded and that I cannot do

 

[ColinBarber]

Diodes or capacitors would be my guess. Either a PSU rail or CPU reset circuitry not working as it should - I doubt the microcontroller has failed.

[jacqueshammer]

Hi everyone. 

Just signed up for the site to chime in since I have just experienced this problem in the US.

 

I have a 2015 IS350 F-sport on which I just changed the Battery. I actually tried getting it done at the dealership, but service was closed when they should have been open.  Wound up buying a Battery myself from a parts store. I wound up with the dead radio/nav/bluetooth.

 

The only things that work are the backup camera (which I believe circumvents the radio), the lights on the unit, and ejecting/inserting a cd.

It feels at this point that I'm going to have to source a used unit, but I wanted to provide you guys with another data point.

 

I'll be back if I find any other solution outside of replacing the unit entirely.

 

Cheers.

 

[toffee_pie]

18 minutes ago, jacqueshammer said:

Hi everyone. 

Just signed up for the site to chime in since I have just experienced this problem in the US.

 

I have a 2015 IS350 F-sport on which I just changed the battery. I actually tried getting it done at the dealership, but service was closed when they should have been open.  Wound up buying a battery myself from a parts store. I wound up with the dead radio/nav/bluetooth.

 

The only things that work are the backup camera (which I believe circumvents the radio), the lights on the unit, and ejecting/inserting a cd.

It feels at this point that I'm going to have to source a used unit, but I wanted to provide you guys with another data point.

 

I'll be back if I find any other solution outside of replacing the unit entirely.

 

Cheers.

 

seriously f****d up navigation design from Lexus

 

Should be a sticky about this and replacing batteries

[morg75]

Sorry to hear about another failure. At least your camera works, I lost that as well when my unit failed but I did have the lights on and could insert/eject CDs. Definitely worth making your dealer aware of this, the more complaints that Lexus get the better. I would start looking for second hand unit or seeing if Lexus will heavily discount a replacement unit for you. 

[AKL BOY]

Disconnected Battery and replace it， black screen in 3 min ， and just show up a message ‘ A programm can not be read， please consult to a dealer‘

all control like air con and sensor doesnt work ！

[morg75]

Well you know the screen isn't at fault, it will be the head unit. I suggest you take it to Lexus and ask them to try a different SD card first, most things don't work without it. If it isn't that, then it sounds like the firmware on one of the internal devices is not loading. If one If the FPGA devices have been damaged by the change then Lexus dealers can't repair. Head unit change is likely. Please post your experience on the forum, maybe Lexus will take notice one day. Crap Christmas present!!!!

[toffee_pie]

Like I have previously said, there clearly is a serious flaw with Lexus cars, there should probably be a sticky about replacing batteries but that would not reflect well on the brand itself. I am an Electronic Engineer myself so have a good understanding of this, Lexus seem content to sweep everything under the rug and ignore everything it seems which is poor. Replacing a Battery in any car should not damage your entire navigation unit.

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, toffee_pie said:

Like I have previously said, there clearly is a serious flaw with Lexus cars, there should probably be a sticky about replacing batteries but that would not reflect well on the brand itself. I am an Electronic Engineer myself so have a good understanding of this, Lexus seem content to sweep everything under the rug and ignore everything it seems which is poor. Replacing a battery in any car should not damage your entire navigation unit.

It seems to only affect the IS300h. The RC is unaffected. Tbf Lexus did offer the whole new head unit for £500 which is much less than retail price of £4000

[toffee_pie]

3 hours ago, rayaans said:

It seems to only affect the IS300h

Not sure, seems to be common amongst lots of different owners?

3 hours ago, rayaans said:

Lexus did offer the whole new head unit for £500

That's still too much - if its a design flaw and it looks like it to me, then the owner should pay £0.00 

[morg75]

Maybe they will take it a little more seriously if the dealers start footing the bill for Battery replacement? The batteries are expensive enough but add £500 plus labour for replacement units it is very expensive.

[rayaans]

On 12/26/2021 at 7:12 PM, toffee_pie said:

Not sure, seems to be common amongst lots of different owners?

That's still too much - if its a design flaw and it looks like it to me, then the owner should pay £0.00 

Not when the vehicle is over 7 years old. It only seems to affect the 2013-14 plate cars so they'll be way out of warranty as well. 

[rayaans]

7 hours ago, morg75 said:

Maybe they will take it a little more seriously if the dealers start footing the bill for battery replacement? The batteries are expensive enough but add £500 plus labour for replacement units it is very expensive.

It's £500 including labour. It takes 10 mins to fit tbh 

[toffee_pie]

2 minutes ago, rayaans said:

It's £500 including labour. It takes 10 mins to fit tbh 

Seems you are ok with paying 500 quid to get a Battery replaced.

4 minutes ago, rayaans said:

Not when the vehicle is over 7 years old. It only seems to affect the 2013-14 plate cars so they'll be way out of warranty as well. 

check google.com - lots of Lexus models appear, not just 13+ models

[morg75]

My car is 2015 IS with the face-lift stereo so I don't think it is limited to 2013-2014 models.

I asked but the dealer said the extended up to 100,000 warantee doesn't cover the stereo. There is also no guarantee Lexus will subsidise the cost to make it £500, they certainly wouldn't on the £2000 amplifier they said I needed!!!

[rayaans]

On 12/28/2021 at 10:38 PM, morg75 said:

My car is 2015 IS with the face-lift stereo so I don't think it is limited to 2013-2014 models.

I asked but the dealer said the extended up to 100,000 warantee doesn't cover the stereo. There is also no guarantee Lexus will subsidise the cost to make it £500, they certainly wouldn't on the £2000 amplifier they said I needed!!!

It doesnt cover infotainment as a whole I think

Theres no guarantee - but certainly in a vehicle with full lexus service history they do tend to try and sort something out. Maybe its because Ive been on the Lexus books for nearly 18 years now

[peniole]

Who would foot the bill if you had a functioning infotainment system and the dealer while replacing the Battery causes the failure?

[royoftherovers]

7 minutes ago, peniole said:

Who would foot the bill if you had a functioning infotainment system and the dealer while replacing the battery causes the failure?

The Contract under which the operation took place, or failing that

The Court, or

A Goodwill gesture offered by the Party or on behalf  of the Party performing the operation.

[ColinBarber]

15 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

The Contract under which the operation took place, or failing that

The Court, or

A Goodwill gesture offered by the Party or on behalf  of the Party performing the operation.

I'd say the court is likely to side with the dealer if they describe the procedure and prove (beyond reasonable doubt) they performed the operation correctly. They cannot be held accountable for something failing that is completely unrelated to the task they have been contracted to perform.

They probably won't want to go to court so may offer a gesture but they are the ones that are going to be out of pocket through no fault of their own.

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, peniole said:

Who would foot the bill if you had a functioning infotainment system and the dealer while replacing the battery causes the failure?

The dealer

if you go in with a car that's working and you get a car back thats not working - its up to them to sort it out

[ezpzDUDE]

On 1/20/2021 at 11:41 AM, Bob99 said:

Sorry I know this response is late BUT here is the fix for this. I too had this happen twice. The first time my car sat for a couple of weeks and again yesterday after I had a new Battery put in. Everyone at the dealership could not fix it. Even Lexus said they had never heard of this happening (though you see it on several threads). The first time this happened another dealership ended up unplugging my radio and plugging it back in. They thought it was a loose connection. Yesterday they didn't have time to do the same fix so I went home with a black navigation screen (though my radio, climate and etc. worked). I was told I probably needed a new radio to be installed which didn't make sense to me. I actually think it's a software bug or safety thing that is keeping the screen from turning on. I was told I'd have to go to the dealership to get them to reboot the radio but I found an easier way that I hope can help someone in the future if this happens to them.  

Here is how to reboot the navigation/display screen:
1. Remove the Battery terminals for positive and negative
2. Leave the Battery unplugged for 30 minutes to an hour (may actually require less time but this is how long we waited)
3. Press the Start button once to turn on the accessory/battery mode (DO NOT HAVE YOUR FOOT ON THE BRAKE AND START THE CAR). *If you start the car the screen will still remain black and you will have to start over
4. Press the PWR/VOL button to turn on the Radio
5. The display screen will light up and show a progress bar showing it is loading the information from the SIM card. Once this completes the system will reboot and the display will light up as normal. 

 

 

Found the above rayaans, so leaving it for a long time like are going to do may work. Nothing to lose by this method anyway. Hope it works

==================

It did!  Thank you!