Is the Lexus brand quality still there?

[superatticman]

On 1/13/2021 at 6:05 PM, paulrnx said:

Rattles, creaking trim and things not working the way they are supposed to. These are what caught my eye.

This is not looking great.

I have to say my GS is pretty silent still. No interior rattles or resonating trim etc. I get some minor wind noise at higher motorway speeds (possibly a door rubber that needs replacing) but overall its impressively quiet for a 9 year old car. 

If there's no real difference in quality between say, the ES and the Camry then badge obsession aside.....the Camry is the logical buy?

[royoftherovers]

27 minutes ago, superatticman said:

This is not looking great.

I have to say my GS is pretty silent still. No interior rattles or resonating trim etc. I get some minor wind noise at higher motorway speeds (possibly a door rubber that needs replacing) but overall its impressively quiet for a 9 year old car. 

If there's no real difference in quality between say, the ES and the Camry then badge obsession aside.....the Camry is the logical buy?

Mine is same as yours Adam.`Tis a Cathedral indeed.

We still await the evidence.

[First_Lexus]

Over the almost five years I’ve been a Lexus NX owner, I’ve had GS, RX, IS, and RC courtesy cars. All have had excellent build quality - the GS the best imho, but all superb. My NX is still as new bar a few stone chips to the front. That quality is the main reason I came to Lexus.

I have also had a couple of UX courtesy cars, and I’m sorry to say the build simply didn’t feel as robust. I fully accept it’s the entry level product but, given the high price, there was too much evidence of cost cutting for me. The door cards especially seem totally out of keeping for a high-quality, luxury, brand.

[royoftherovers]

5 minutes ago, First_Lexus said:

Over the almost five years I’ve been a Lexus NX owner, I’ve had GS, RX, IS, and RC courtesy cars. All have had excellent build quality - the GS the best imho, but all superb. My NX is still as new bar a few stone chips to the front. That quality is the main reason I came to Lexus.

I have also had a couple of UX courtesy cars, and I’m sorry to say the build simply didn’t feel as robust. I fully accept it’s the entry level product but, given the high price, there was too much evidence of cost cutting for me. The door cards especially seem totally out of keeping for a high-quality, luxury, brand.

I think that Paul was alluding to the recent productions.

[superatticman]

2 hours ago, First_Lexus said:

Over the almost five years I’ve been a Lexus NX owner, I’ve had GS, RX, IS, and RC courtesy cars. All have had excellent build quality - the GS the best imho, but all superb. My NX is still as new bar a few stone chips to the front. That quality is the main reason I came to Lexus.

I have also had a couple of UX courtesy cars, and I’m sorry to say the build simply didn’t feel as robust. I fully accept it’s the entry level product but, given the high price, there was too much evidence of cost cutting for me. The door cards especially seem totally out of keeping for a high-quality, luxury, brand.

It will be interesting to see how this speculation develops. Is it an overall drop in quality or maybe inconsistency of build? 

The latter was personified no better than the Rover 75's. Some were excellent, others were okay, the remainder were sub par. Dash rattles, squeaks, leaks etc.

Please don't start heading that way Lexus. Was bad enough having a slightly rattly dash on my old E60.

[royoftherovers]

5 minutes ago, superatticman said:

It will be interesting to see how this speculation develops. Is it an overall drop in quality or maybe inconsistency of build? 

The latter was personified no better than the Rover 75's. Some were excellent, others were okay, the remainder were sub par. Dash rattles, squeaks, leaks etc.

Please don't start heading that way Lexus. Was bad enough having a slightly rattly dash on my old E60.

Paul admits that he didn`t do any research. It was just that he asked others what they thought.

Comparing British Leyland with Toyota is somewhat outlandish Adam I feel. The best thing about Rover 75`s was the wonderful range of superb colours they chose for the car.

I often see a 52 Reg estate in what I call a Duck Egg Blue as I `m on the Rocade around Bordeaux as I`m motoring to Spain.

[superatticman]

On 30/01/2021 at 8:27 PM, royoftherovers said:

Paul admits that he didn`t do any research. It was just that he asked others what they thought.

Comparing British Leyland with Toyota is somewhat outlandish Adam I feel. The best thing about Rover 75`s was the wonderful range of superb colours they chose for the car.

I often see a 52 Reg estate in what I call a Duck Egg Blue as I `m on the Rocade around Bordeaux as I`m motoring to Spain.

Quite how I managed to include 'Rover' and 'Lexus' in the same breath is something worth mass scrutiny!

However let's just see how the next couple of years pan out. I guess if QC or standard quality has been lowered.....could always get a late GS facelift when it's time to renew. 

Yes the Colours of the 75s were impressive. I absolutely loved the interiors too. My own Conny SE that I had for a couple of years was an early one that was very well put together and didn't give me any grief at all. I think second hand it came in at half the price of a GS of similar year and spec!!

[Ala Larj]

Slightly off subject but I think we’ve become a bit blasé about how the reliability/quality has changed over the years. I’ve had many cars since the 1970’s of varying costs from my favourite cheapie (a 1300 Vanden Plas) top spec Volvos. However, in my early motoring days, regardless of cost they all needed ‘regular’ maintenance be it tappet or point adjustments. Perceived quality was what mattered. The expensive cars I had broke down as much as the cheap ones despite the leather and wood! The cheapest Dacia today is probably more reliable than the best ‘quality’ car I had before my Lexus experience. Regardless of all that my thoughts about quality have less to do about reliability but more to do with how I feel when I’m sitting in and driving my car. Our second car is a 12 year old Honda Jazz which has never let us down and is perfect for its intended role, but I’ve never loved it like my GS. The ‘quality’ of interior materials and comfort are worlds apart. I felt the interior of my IS mk 2 superior in quality than the IS mk 3 but I guess that’s subjective.  My point being is that most cars nowadays are a massive improvement from those of the past and our expectations have become over expected! Am sure this has opened a can of worms and am looking forward to certain members thoughts!

[dutchie01]

So, if your expectations are not met it is a shocker?  If a Lexus breaks down it is very disappointing as you dont see this coming. If a Range Rover does not break down it gives you thesame feeling as also this you did not see coming? When i grew up it was a regular sight to see men working on a car in the street as something went wrong. Same on cold winter mornings, the sound of cars not wanting to start. All accepted in those days as that was the standard of quality. Fast forward to 2021 and although the overall level of quality has risen considerably there are still differences between marques and even models of one marque. Besides a house a car will the the most expensive buy for most people and in my opinion it is unforgivable if it lets you down in a bad way. Take a look at the JD Powers list bottom 10. These companies deserve bankrupcy. Fully agree with you on the ISmk2/3 interior by the way!

[Vlady]

9 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

So, if your expectations are not met it is a shocker?  If a Lexus breaks down it is very disappointing as you dont see this coming. If a Range Rover does not break down it gives you thesame feeling as also this you did not see coming? When i grew up it was a regular sight to see men working on a car in the street as something went wrong. Same on cold winter mornings, the sound of cars not wanting to start. All accepted in those days as that was the standard of quality. Fast forward to 2021 and although the overall level of quality has risen considerably there are still differences between marques and even models of one marque. Besides a house a car will the the most expensive buy for most people and in my opinion it is unforgivable if it lets you down in a bad way. Take a look at the JD Powers list bottom 10. These companies deserve bankrupcy. Fully agree with you on the ISmk2/3 interior by the way!

Last time I looked (last year) at JD Powers 10 top least reliable SUVs and 6 out of 10 were cars built by JLR! Shocking and even more shocking that people still buying them. May be when it's new and covered by warranty you can live with that many breakdowns but as a used proposal I wouldn't even poke it with the stick even though I like the look of a recent Range Rover or even a Land Rover! Hell, this is the main reason I walked away from used BMWs as I always had in a back of my mind that something will go wrong!

[royoftherovers]

11 hours ago, superatticman said:

Quite how I managed to include 'Rover' and 'Lexus' in the same breath is something worth mass scrutiny!

However let's just see how the next couple of years pan out. I guess if QC or standard quality has been lowered.....could always get a late GS facelift when it's time to renew. 

Yes the Colours of the 75s were impressive. I absolutely loved the interiors too. My own Conny SE that I had for a couple of years was an early one that was very well put together and didn't give me any grief at all. I think second hand it came in at half the price of a GS of similar year and spec!!

I bought one for a colleague in the office more than 17 years ago. It is still on the road having passed 260,000 miles !

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, dutchie01 said:

So, if your expectations are not met it is a shocker?  If a Lexus breaks down it is very disappointing as you dont see this coming. If a Range Rover does not break down it gives you thesame feeling as also this you did not see coming? When i grew up it was a regular sight to see men working on a car in the street as something went wrong. Same on cold winter mornings, the sound of cars not wanting to start. All accepted in those days as that was the standard of quality. Fast forward to 2021 and although the overall level of quality has risen considerably there are still differences between marques and even models of one marque. Besides a house a car will the the most expensive buy for most people and in my opinion it is unforgivable if it lets you down in a bad way. Take a look at the JD Powers list bottom 10. These companies deserve bankrupcy. Fully agree with you on the ISmk2/3 interior by the way!

When I was a lad Bernard, Fords always struggled to start while BMC`s always purred into life immediately.

[superatticman]

1 hour ago, dutchie01 said:

So, if your expectations are not met it is a shocker?  If a Lexus breaks down it is very disappointing as you dont see this coming. If a Range Rover does not break down it gives you thesame feeling as also this you did not see coming? When i grew up it was a regular sight to see men working on a car in the street as something went wrong. Same on cold winter mornings, the sound of cars not wanting to start. All accepted in those days as that was the standard of quality. Fast forward to 2021 and although the overall level of quality has risen considerably there are still differences between marques and even models of one marque. Besides a house a car will the the most expensive buy for most people and in my opinion it is unforgivable if it lets you down in a bad way. Take a look at the JD Powers list bottom 10. These companies deserve bankrupcy. Fully agree with you on the ISmk2/3 interior by the way!

Agree with all of this. I guess there are two types of issue that diligent buyers of cars will ponder:

How likely is it to actually break down and need roadside assistance?

How likely is it to develop minor faults? 

The two above are no doubted related. If a car accumulates a number of minor faults it could eventually lead to a physical breakdown. Although of course you could have a scenario where a car runs without problems for years but then suffers a sudden catastrophic failure of a major component. Ie cam chain or gearbox. 

A perfect example of the minor fault car was my ex E60 523i. Never left me stranded. Started every time. Lovely motor to drive all in all. However throughout its four years of ownership it had numerous faults. If unattended, some of the items below would have LED to complete breakdown or more severe failure. 

1) electric window motor failure. £250 (warranty)

2) boot wiring loom failure £520 (warranty)

3) Rocker cover failure £350

4) Ignition coils all replaced £350

5) NoX sensor replaced £300

6) Leaking radiator repaired £250

These on top of normal items such as service, brake discs, tyres etc. 

The failed (warped) rocker cover was the last straw for me and I decided to turn back to the sanity of Japanese car ownership. The guys on the infamous 'Bimmerforum' were quite pragmatic about the whole episode though. Far from defending the brand they were happy to accept certain German badged ownership can come as a shock to those migrating from Japanese brands. 

So back to the Lexus I bought my Gs250 in early 2019 as a 7 year old very low mileage car from a dealer for around £12.5k although they threw in a 3 year warranty. Quite expensive really considering the age and 'old hat' larger petrol engine. Especially when you could pick up a 3 yr old mid mileage Madza 6 for about the same. However, I paid for what I perceive as quality engineering and reliability and feel I have got decent value for money in this respect. 

Of course returning to the original point had I paid that amount for a 7 year old car that started developing niggles that the beemer did, or was compromised as far as quality of interior goes then I'd have felt a prize mug to be honest. I did so on the trust and belief that Lexus = quality engineering, no compromises and hassle free motoring.

As the op has alluded to, if this is now apparently being challenged in places then it casts doubt over whether you should be paying a premium for perceived quality that isn't quite what it was. Maybe its a false alarm or maybe its a sign of what's coming. Await the next year or so with baited breath. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dutchie01]

Maybe the title of this thread could be == is the Lexus brand quality still above Toyota?=

i have noticed that the latest Toyotas are definately creeping upwards and could approach Lexus in materials, design, buildquality. The new Camry, Highlander etc. Is Toyota improving or is Lexus cost cutting and getting closer to Toyota?

[Vlady]

2 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

Maybe the title of this thread could be == is the Lexus brand quality still above Toyota?=

i have noticed that the latest Toyotas are definately creeping upwards and could approach Lexus in materials, design, buildquality. The new Camry, Highlander etc. Is Toyota improving or is Lexus cost cutting and getting closer to Toyota?

I think Toyota is massively improving and Lexus is just getting a bit more Americans where they are (until recently) not very much bothered about interior wuality as much as us.

Couple years ago I sat in brand new Camry and then next to it was Lexus ES, it was something like 10k euros (if not 11) in price between them and when you sit in Lexus (even ES) you understand why they charge more money for it, quality of materials not just better it is on a different level!

Overall quality is hard to measure between Toyota and Lexus, every research though says that Lexus is still a better quality/reliability car.