Cat Converter theft

[MadJam250]

Just had my cat watermarked at Lexus and a security window sticker applied to that effect. Is that really going to act as a deterrent and/or reduce insurance premiums? 

[Shelside]

On 1/8/2021 at 2:05 PM, colin79666 said:

Sorry to hear this has happened to you. I’d suggest tying up anything hanging onto the ground and don’t drive it further than the recovery truck. This is what insurance is for really even though it will likely put the renewal cost up a little for a few years.

I’d go the official route myself, until they chop it off would they stop and check if it is an oem part?

Lexus posted a bit on this issue a while back: https://blog.lexus.co.uk/catalytic-converter-theft

There are some threads on here about the cat lock with more detail on that. Sadly it is probably like other burglaries, now the scumbags know where your car is they might try again. You might also consider a security doorbell/camera that covers your drive as a deterrent. 

Sorry to hear that. I have installed a security camera and 2 LED security lights to the front and side of my house. The camera can be set up to watch "Zones" to stop getting too many alerts to my phone. 

Took a bit of setting up but gives me piece of mind. 

[LenT]

 

2 hours ago, MadJam250 said:

Just had my cat watermarked at Lexus and a security window sticker applied to that effect. Is that really going to act as a deterrent and/or reduce insurance premiums? 

Possibly not.  But if it persuades a thief to pick the car next to it, then it will have paid for the modest cost of application.  And as for your insurance premium, you can but ask.

But you do raise the question of whether security marking is as effective a deterrent as sometimes claimed.  That may depend on if anyone notices that you have it.

I once took delivery of a new BMW Convertible from a dealer in Leicester.  During the handover he pointed out that as a valuable complimentary extra they had etched all the glass with the registration number.

I told him that while I was most appreciative of this gesture, I wondered why it wasn’t the same as the number plates?  

I pointed out that this was only a security feature because someone is supposed to notice that the two numbers were different - something they themselves had actually failed to notice!

After negotiating a sum to compensate for all the future occasions I was going to have to explain this discrepancy, I took delivery.  In the three years of ownership no-one in or out of authority raised the matter - even when it was serviced by another dealer.

So was this glass etching worth having?  Well as they ended up having to pay me for it, probably yes.  And its mere presence on all the glass may have deterred some ‘professional’ thieves.

But as a highly visible tool for identifying a possible stolen vehicle, not so much!

[royoftherovers]

Len, are you saying that the etchings on the glass did not match the Registration Number of the vehicle because whilst the letters were identical, the numbers were different ?

[LenT]

31 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Len, are you saying that the etchings on the glass did not match the Registration Number of the vehicle because whilst the letters were identical, the numbers were different ?

Yes, John.  Precisely that.  This was some years ago, but as I recall it, that dealership was handing over three cars so they all had the reg letters identifying Leicester, but different numbers.  Our etched number not only didn’t match our reg plate - it didn’t match the other two either!

So the possibility that our etched number was also the reg number of one of the other two didn’t seem to apply.  Where the etched number came from, they never told me!

The reg number correctly identified the car.  As I recall, the etched number didn’t actually identify anything!

PS.  It has also occurred to me that it was the Salesman drawing my attention to the etched glass, on account of it being a valuable complimentary offering, that prompted me to actually check - something neither he nor anyone else in the dealership, had bothered to do.

Which of course prompts the question of how effective this kind of security marking really is.

Probably worth having if it’s complimentary.   And possibly a deterrent to any thief not wanting to risk having to replace all the glass.

[doog442]

7 hours ago, MadJam250 said:

Just had my cat watermarked at Lexus and a security window sticker applied to that effect. Is that really going to act as a deterrent and/or reduce insurance premiums? 

My mother in law had a Police letter inviting her to several named local garages to have her cat watermarked on her Honda Jazz. 

The cynic in me told me that vehicle would never get out of there without some 'advisories' on tyres, brake pads / discs or phantom leaking shocks. 

I'm going to be brutally honest here having had a career dealing with all sorts, including scrap metal dealers .Its a complete waste of time marking any parts, simply a public relations exercise but I guess you appreciate that looking at your post. These people have outlets that simply won't check / care if its marked and the Police rarely seize stuff from scrap metal dealers.  I'd argue the security sticker would actually be an advert to the scum that you have the cat they want and to whip it off. 

[thar]

10 hours ago, doog442 said:

...I'd argue the security sticker would actually be an advert to the scum that you have the cat they want and to whip it off. 

I have an after market cat lock and was considering putting a sticker on  the car, but I haven't for this reason. 

[LenT]

11 hours ago, doog442 said:

My mother in law had a Police letter inviting her to several named local garages to have her cat watermarked on her Honda Jazz. 

The cynic in me told me that vehicle would never get out of there without some 'advisories' on tyres, brake pads / discs or phantom leaking shocks. 

I'm going to be brutally honest here having had a career dealing with all sorts, including scrap metal dealers .Its a complete waste of time marking any parts, simply a public relations exercise but I guess you appreciate that looking at your post. These people have outlets that simply won't check / care if its marked and the Police rarely seize stuff from scrap metal dealers.  I'd argue the security sticker would actually be an advert to the scum that you have the cat they want and to whip it off. 

I agree with some of your post, Doog.  There can be no doubt that the scrap merchants handing over cash to buy a truckload of sawn off catalytic converters can have any doubt about how they were obtained.

Marking these items is only effective if the merchant is caught with them on the premises.  But that only has to happen once to form the basis of a case against them.  Which I suggest makes it worthwhile.

As for the warning sticker, I'd compare it to fitting a dummy burglar alarm box to the outside of your house.  A casual passing chummy may or may not think it's real, but may be more inclined to try the place next door - which doesn't have one.

But in any case, the converter thieves cruising around for a target are looking for a specific make and model.  These aren't random attacks.  So they spot their victim long before they clock the warning sticker.

Whether knowing it may be marked is a deterrent or not probably depends on how likely they are to be caught in possession.  Or the scrap dealer to refuse to handle it.  Now we may all agree that both events are unlikely, but as I say...it only has to pay off the once.

Being in possession of a large number of old, sawn off converters is not a criminal offence.  Being in possession of one associated with a recent theft, is.

So on balance, I suggest the cost and effort of marking is worthwhile.  

[royoftherovers]

Regulate Scrap Metal Merchants and  bring them under( Local Authority?) or other control ?

If the Buyer is removed to whom can the cc`s be sold?

[doog442]

1 hour ago, LenT said:

I agree with some of your post, Doog.  There can be no doubt that the scrap merchants handing over cash to buy a truckload of sawn off catalytic converters can have any doubt about how they were obtained.

Marking these items is only effective if the merchant is caught with them on the premises.  But that only has to happen once to form the basis of a case against them.  Which I suggest makes it worthwhile.

As for the warning sticker, I'd compare it to fitting a dummy burglar alarm box to the outside of your house.  A casual passing chummy may or may not think it's real, but may be more inclined to try the place next door - which doesn't have one.

But in any case, the converter thieves cruising around for a target are looking for a specific make and model.  These aren't random attacks.  So they spot their victim long before they clock the warning sticker.

Whether knowing it may be marked is a deterrent or not probably depends on how likely they are to be caught in possession.  Or the scrap dealer to refuse to handle it.  Now we may all agree that both events are unlikely, but as I say...it only has to pay off the once.

Being in possession of a large number of old, sawn off converters is not a criminal offence.  Being in possession of one associated with a recent theft, is.

So on balance, I suggest the cost and effort of marking is worthwhile.  

Excellent points Len, I guess I just had my cynical head on after years of fighting losing battles.  We tried all sorts, threw a lot of public money and resources at it, including installing tracking devices with limited success. 

However that was before vehicle and most acquisitive crime was knocked on the head as a priority by the Government during their swinging cuts and various units dealing with this sort of stuff disbanded. Unfortunately cat theft is simply classed as a theft from a motor vehicle and often won't even warrant a police visit. So the next step down is crime prevention, a little like stamping post codes on bicycles. Massively labour Intensive for little reward that had absolutely zero impact on cycle theft. However it made the bicycle owner feel better and it ticked plenty of boxes in relation to policing plans and public engagement.

The solution is simple, lock it or lose it. However at least these initiatives are raising awareness so people can take their own preventative measures. In relation to pro active targeting of these Individuals, more patrols to respond to these thefts, start treating vehicle crime as a priority, multi agency approach - in short more cops. The government have policing on a string. When they cut numbers they change crime priorities and record things differently, when they add numbers then suddenly it changes and they turn around and tell the public how they're now reducing crime - hence the cynicism. There was however some recent success I understand with a Joint initiative on this issue and probably a few more unpublicised.   

John mentions the scrap metal Industry. The biggest drop in scrap metal thefts happened when cash transactions were made illegal. All money had to go through bank accounts (cheque or electronic transfer)  however we found an awful lot of stuff was clearly going through the back door. The Police do actually have powers to enter scrap metal dealers, examine the books etc but as with everything it comes down to priorities and resources. Vehicle crime simply isn't a priority, facebook threats on the other hand . 

 

[MadJam250]

Lock it, lose it or choose an alternative brand. I love my Lexus and all those before, but if little is being done to prevent this then I/others will be tempted to shop elsewhere. Personally I think all owners should have their cars recalled to fit a Catloc but as far as I see it, recalls only apply to safety matters of concern, so that is unlikely to happen. 

[Vlady]

16 minutes ago, MadJam250 said:

Lock it, lose it or choose an alternative brand. I love my Lexus and all those before, but if little is being done to prevent this then I/others will be tempted to shop elsewhere. Personally I think all owners should have their cars recalled to fit a Catloc but as far as I see it, recalls only apply to safety matters of concern, so that is unlikely to happen. 

Couldn't agree more, cat theft is one of the main reasons I might not consider Lexus (hybrid) in a future, unless I can be proven that cats are hidden in the engine compartments so thieves can't get to them!

[Poundy]

4 hours ago, MadJam250 said:

Lock it, lose it or choose an alternative brand. I love my Lexus and all those before, but if little is being done to prevent this then I/others will be tempted to shop elsewhere. Personally I think all owners should have their cars recalled to fit a Catloc but as far as I see it, recalls only apply to safety matters of concern, so that is unlikely to happen. 

 

3 hours ago, Vlady said:

Couldn't agree more, cat theft is one of the main reasons I might not consider Lexus (hybrid) in a future, unless I can be proven that cats are hidden in the engine compartments so thieves can't get to them!

Hard to find a replacement car without a Cat fitted 😉.

There were well over 21,000 reported cases alone last year and the final figure would be much higher. There were close to 15,000 in London alone.

Although we learn of the Lexus thefts there are plenty of other car forums posting the same issues so it's not a Lexus only problem.

[Mel9982]

FYI

My cat was stolen yesterday 

CT200H 70 PLATE

THA ALARM CABLES WERE PULLED THROUGH THE FRONT GRILL AND CUT TO STOP ALARM GOING OFF.

NOT SURE IF THESE COULD BE SECURED OR MOVED TO PREVENT THIS HAPPENING

[northernstar]

8 hours ago, Mel9982 said:

FYI

My cat was stolen yesterday 

CT200H 70 PLATE

THA ALARM CABLES WERE PULLED THROUGH THE FRONT GRILL AND CUT TO STOP ALARM GOING OFF.

NOT SURE IF THESE COULD BE SECURED OR MOVED TO PREVENT THIS HAPPENING

Welcome to the forum.

Sorry to hear you cat was stolen. Which part of the country was it?

[Las Palmas]

11 hours ago, Mel9982 said:

FYI

My cat was stolen yesterday 

CT200H 70 PLATE

THA ALARM CABLES WERE PULLED THROUGH THE FRONT GRILL AND CUT TO STOP ALARM GOING OFF.

NOT SURE IF THESE COULD BE SECURED OR MOVED TO PREVENT THIS HAPPENING

Wires can be relocated.

Those that are pro stealing will find a way no matter what we do.

We cannot keep our cars in a bank box.

[diabolik]

A cat shield will detter them.

[LenT]

13 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

Wires can be relocated.

Absolutely, John. If this is now a common method of attack then surely it’s something Lexus should be addressing during manufacture.

Perhaps as a stop gap, Lexus dealers could be doing it on new cars - or offering it as a service for older ones.

[Las Palmas]

8 hours ago, diabolik said:

A cat shield will detter them.

15 - 45 seconds.

Tools can cut

[BigMartin]

I had mine stolen last week and I have just got the car back tonight.

I still need one Oxygen/Lambda Sensor so although the exhaust is now quiet, I do have the Engine Light on.

Does anyone know how much Lexus would charge for one sensor and fitting?

[joelfigueira]

19 hours ago, LenT said:

Absolutely, John. If this is now a common method of attack then surely it’s something Lexus should be addressing during manufacture.

Perhaps as a stop gap, Lexus dealers could be doing it on new cars - or offering it as a service for older ones.

Suppose this is not going to be much of an issue now since the CT has stopped production and you don’t see that many in the road so I doubt Lexus will do anything else for the CT. As for the other models I’m sure they have future proofed them. 

[diabolik]

12 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

15 - 45 seconds.

Tools can cut

I get your point but:

I am yet to find someone having his cat cut with a shield on. I'm active on both Jazz and CT/Prius/Auris facebook groups since this cat theft mania started and this has never happened.

If I follow your advise, the CT/Prius/Auris is not worth a buy, at all.

[Poundy]

On 9/20/2022 at 8:37 PM, diabolik said:

I get your point but:

I am yet to find someone having his cat cut with a shield on. I'm active on both Jazz and CT/Prius/Auris facebook groups since this cat theft mania started and this has never happened.

If I follow your advise, the CT/Prius/Auris is not worth a buy, at all.

Agree, I have not heard of anyone with the Lexus Catloc fitted having one stolen.

Perhaps it goes in the too hard basket, so they move on to easier pickings 

[Las Palmas]

The problem started with the car companies.

They all install a sweet gentle cat.

What if they installed a growling, hungry tiger?

        

SORRY!

[mikedb]

how about buying a cheap used cat (of any description) from Fleabay.....and leave it under your car.....or attach it to your cat lock if you have one

😁

NB - I had mine stolen last year...and now have a cat lock (but no used cat attached to it.......yet)

as a side.....we have found the cat lock low when going over some slightly higher road humps.......so take car if you do get one fitted