Power Tailgate Intermittent

[steveledzep]

I don't think it's a gas strut problem here Andy.  Everything is dead, no lock activation, no beeps, no cargo lights etc.

[Herbie]

3 hours ago, Greisingel said:

I’ve ordered 2 new gas struts.

I came across an explanation that had me wondering. I don’t know if it is right.

The mechanics of the tail gate are that when the lock releases as you electrically signal to open, the struts do most of the ejection work after lock release.

If the initial ejection is weak and a tipping point of expansion isn’t reached the motor may give up and drop the lid. There is a 16 second motor burnout protection.  The strut may open fully in the end but more slowly and hold reasonably well giving the impression it is good. 

I was sceptical at this.  I thought the motor lifted and dropped the lid. The struts acted only as a damper. If it is correct then it can explain in some cases how seal compromised struts may cause the lid action to cease. 

In my case the lid motor ceased operation entirely working only after some time had elapsed, possibly after the strut gas had in some way altered. 

This may all be nonsense. My Techstream showed no codes for lid. 

I think the lifting of the tailgate is achieved by a mixture of both the lift motor and the gas struts. The motor powers the upward motion with the struts assisting, so that the motor doesn't have to carry the whole weight of the tailgate.

The struts then hold the tailgate in the open position. The best indication of failing struts is that the tailgate won't stay up. Another indication of failing struts is that the tailgate begins to lift but it only manages to open a few inches and then comes back down.

[Greisingel]

On 3/3/2021 at 1:16 PM, Herbie said:

I think the lifting of the tailgate is achieved by a mixture of both the lift motor and the gas struts. The motor powers the upward motion with the struts assisting, so that the motor doesn't have to carry the whole weight of the tailgate.

The struts then hold the tailgate in the open position. The best indication of failing struts is that the tailgate won't stay up. Another indication of failing struts is that the tailgate begins to lift but it only manages to open a few inches and then comes back down.

Marvellous. Of course I overlooked the fact the old strut ball and socket is without removal clip. Have to grind the bloomin thing out. Does anyone know of cheap ball brackets? 

[Greisingel]

On 3/3/2021 at 12:31 PM, steveledzep said:

I don't think it's a gas strut problem here Andy.  Everything is dead, no lock activation, no beeps, no cargo lights etc.

Interestingly my whole system died after I initially tried repeated openings. Even electric close after manual opening didn’t work. No beep no nothing. I thought I’d blown a fuse. I hadn’t. I couldn’t work out what then had switched off all electrical opening and closing points.

I checked the glovebox button hadn’t magically switched off. No. So I turned it off anyway. Decided only to open hatch manually from then on not wanting to risk any electrical system/motor damage with failed lifts, even though it appeared that had already happened ie system death.

After driving around and checking I had a healthy aux Battery (which I do, thanks Halfords) I switched on glovebox button.

So now electrics came back to life. Bizarre. Hatch did did it’s usual 3 inch lift, beep and fall. Also now closed electrically after manual open.

So decided that the struts had lost some of its Newton Meters.

This is where I am now. Bought new struts and have to work out how to remove old ones off ball joints 

[steveledzep]

** UPDATE **

My tailgate hasn't worked since the beginning of January, I've been accessing the boot area via the driver side rear door and over the rear seats.  This morning I went shopping and used the release on the tailgate above the number plate to open the car  doors and unloaded my trolley via the rear passenger door as usual.  I needed to visit another shop so went to lock up again using the dimple on the driver's door...nothing happened.  I tried locking with the key fob button...nothing.  To my total surprise, the tailgate had released when I unlocked the doors and so this was stopping the locking of the car.  The tailgate lifted manually and I noticed the cargo lights were illuminated too.  I closed it using the close button on the tailgate, then tried the button by the steering wheel and it beeped and opened the tailgate.  All was back to normal 

Earlier in the thread, I think it was Mike who suggested the problem was due to temperature.  Don't think this was the case as it was a chilly 3 degrees C this morning.  All I can think of is water ingress somewhere has caused my problem and the summer-like temperatures we had last week have dried it.

I've read many recent threads here about similar tailgate problems, from memory I think they all originated after the auxiliary Battery losing its charge.  So, maybe water ingress isn't the problem and it's an electrical gremlin that's self-healed...is that possible ?

I'm just very glad that I didn't throw wads of cash at the problem.  It will be interesting to see how long it lasts.

[Phil xxkr]

40 minutes ago, steveledzep said:

** UPDATE **

My tailgate hasn't worked since the beginning of January, I've been accessing the boot area via the driver side rear door and over the rear seats.  This morning I went shopping and used the release on the tailgate above the number plate to open the car  doors and unloaded my trolley via the rear passenger door as usual.  I needed to visit another shop so went to lock up again using the dimple on the driver's door...nothing happened.  I tried locking with the key fob button...nothing.  To my total surprise, the tailgate had released when I unlocked the doors and so this was stopping the locking of the car.  The tailgate lifted manually and I noticed the cargo lights were illuminated too.  I closed it using the close button on the tailgate, then tried the button by the steering wheel and it beeped and opened the tailgate.  All was back to normal 

Earlier in the thread, I think it was Mike who suggested the problem was due to temperature.  Don't think this was the case as it was a chilly 3 degrees C this morning.  All I can think of is water ingress somewhere has caused my problem and the summer-like temperatures we had last week have dried it.

I've read many recent threads here about similar tailgate problems, from memory I think they all originated after the auxiliary battery losing its charge.  So, maybe water ingress isn't the problem and it's an electrical gremlin that's self-healed...is that possible ?

I'm just very glad that I didn't throw wads of cash at the problem.  It will be interesting to see how long it lasts.

In my case the boot opened from the dash button but not from the fob. Manual push switch worked but was really heavy to lift. Looking at the struts there was evidence of corrosion so I bought 2 from SGS Derby. At £70 not too much of a risk, took 5 minutes to swap and since then all 3 methods work perfectly, 

[steveledzep]

2 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

In my case the boot opened from the dash button but not from the fob. Manual push switch worked but was really heavy to lift. Looking at the struts there was evidence of corrosion so I bought 2 from SGS Derby. At £70 not too much of a risk, took 5 minutes to swap and since then all 3 methods work perfectly, 

Struts on mine are fine Phil.  It's been an electrical problem, the cargo lights show that.  I also tested the tailgate switch with my multimeter too.  In some ways I wish it was just the struts.

[Phil xxkr]

21 minutes ago, steveledzep said:

Struts on mine are fine Phil.  It's been an electrical problem, the cargo lights show that.  I also tested the tailgate switch with my multimeter too.  In some ways I wish it was just the struts.

Best wishes on finding a solution soon

[steveledzep]

Hmmm.....it rained overnight, tailgate not working again.  Over the weekend I'm going to be a water ingress detective.  Any tips where to start please ?

[Paulk]

On 12/31/2020 at 5:08 PM, steveledzep said:

Thanks for response Herbs.  No Techstream, but I do have a multimeter.  I was looking inside the glovebox, I'll take another look in the morning when it's light.

I've had the same issue and can't find the 'switch' in the glovebox.  I'll check mine later today aswell.  Only picked the car up yesturday so all new to me.

[steveledzep]

3 hours ago, Paulk said:

I've had the same issue and can't find the 'switch' in the glovebox.  I'll check mine later today aswell.  Only picked the car up yesturday so all new to me.

It's not actually inside the glovebox, it is mounted on the outer rim on the right hand side nearest to the gear lever.  Herbs helped me to find it.

[roger889]

On 1/29/2021 at 3:23 PM, steveledzep said:

Thought I'd resurrect this thread as I didn't want to hijack others.

I've read with interest the threads here about the auxiliary Battery being the weakness/Achilles heel and that's what I've experienced.  Mine is fitted with a standard wet Battery and it's suffered a couple of discharges in the last 3 months.  It does charge up, but doesn't hold charge as well as I think it ought.  I bit the bullet and bought a replacement.

It's not easy to find a suitable Battery to enable by-passing of the Lexus £300 a pop scenario.  I'll link here to the one I bought and it fits the Battery tray very well, I just had to pack out the securing bracket by 10mm to fix it in place.  It's a sealed AGM type so I'm now happy that I have the correct type fitted.  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hankook-SA55020-063-Start-Stop-AGM-Car-Battery-5-Year-Warranty/254122603753?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

My tailgate is no longer intermittent...it just doesn't work at all, ever !  The glovebox button is active but none of the switches activate the tailgate.  Interesting to note that the boot illumination is not working either.  The manual advises to initialise the tailgate after disconnecting the 12v Battery.  All I have to do apparently is to shut the door manually and then everything will then be reset.  Not happening for me !  It's not doing my back much good clambering over the back seat every time I need to open the tailgate.  Any ideas ?

Roger 889.

I have exactly the same problem on my 2012 450h. In summer the tailgate works perfectly but as soon as the weather turns damp and cold the tailgate won't work. All other locks open and close as they should, the alarm works as it should. I have taken the little inspection cover off the boot lock inside the car and tied some electrical wire to the release pull, then run it along the bottom of the boot door to the nearside and I hide it between the back lights. It can be a bit fiddly flicking it out from it's little hiding place but it always comes out eventually and a sharp pull on it opens the lock on tailgate.