Help me buy a Lexus Rx - Why the Lexus RX450 H (L) instead of a Q7, X5 or XC90?

WipeOut · December 10, 2020

1 hour ago, AlternativeLUX said:

Hi WipeOut (Nigel), ,

You seem to be in the same boat as me to be honest. I can't be dealing with unreliability. My family is young so if I can convince one MiniPerson to sit in the back on long journeys its a win.

I notice the Lexus have upgraded the new RX to a better infotainment system with Android Auto support ( though it , frustratingly uses some of the screen as opposed to Apple going full screen.

Which XC90 did you have? Did it have the Touring Chassis? How does the ride and handling compare? How do road and noise levels compare?

Al

It was a basic spec XC90 Momentum with standard suspension. My recollection was the XC90 was very mariginally better in the corners (not that any SUV is a sports car), but the ride is better in the Lexus. The Lexus is quieter and more refined due to V6 and Hybrid compared to the diesel. The boot and rear seating is better in the XC90. Lexus reliability is superb.

While rejecting the Volvo was a right pain in the.... I am happy that because of it I ended up with the Lexus.

AlternativeLUX · December 10, 2020

4 hours ago, WipeOut said:

It was a basic spec XC90 Momentum with standard suspension

Hi Nigel,

Thanks for that. To be honest that's what I 'm in a quandary about at the moment. I have the funds to sort an RX, Xc90 R-Design or a Q7 , both have air suspension.

The difference between the XC90 Momentum and the R-Design in ride was marked. Not by much but it changed the body behaviour.

On the other hand my Merc has air - and the air suspension went mental a few times on a brand new car.

So I'm kind of torn on that question at the moment.

Suspension makes a difference to me simply because my journeys involve long distance motorway busting a lot of the time and I'm used to the reasonably smooth ride on the Merc. The XC90 momentum wasn't far off my Merc, but you could tell it was was sprung.

How would you describe on the RX in that respect, between the XC90 Momentum and the RX - which has the least wind noise, road noise, and Motorway poise?

Barry14UK · December 10, 2020

How others evaluate and conclude is subjective. What matters is how you judge the cars which could be quite different. For example, someone who listens to music all the time is not likely to notice whether one car is going to produce a couple more or less decibels than another. What some consider a hard ride others will find comfortable. You are never going to get a car that everyone considers is best in every aspect. One individual will prioritise different aspects to another when in the driving seat and that is what you should base your decision on, if a known factor such as reliability and dealer excellence is of lesser importance to you.

Incidentally, although there has been less feed back on the 4th Generation RX cars, many have commented on how the previous Generation cars have been improved in ride and handling by fitting different tyres to the original Dunlops that most come with as new, so that's another moot point.

AlternativeLUX · December 11, 2020

4 hours ago, Barry14UK said:

How others evaluate and conclude is subjective. What matters is how you judge the cars which could be quite different. For example, someone who listens to music all the time is not likely to notice whether one car is going to produce a couple more or less decibels than another. What some consider a hard ride others will find comfortable. You are never going to get a car that everyone considers is best in every aspect. One individual will prioritise different aspects to another when in the driving seat and that is what you should base your decision on, if a known factor such as reliability and dealer excellence is of lesser importance to you.

Incidentally, although there has been less feed back on the 4th Generation RX cars, many have commented on how the previous Generation cars have been improved in ride and handling by fitting different tyres to the original Dunlops that most come with as new, so that's another moot point.

That's a fair point.

However, I think its important to know what you're making a decision on in term of comparison. I work in consulting, one of the things that is important to us is what we call the value proposition. That is combination of what product means financially , but also how it connects with the user. Those expectations change per user but there is enough of a commonality to consolidate a product around.

Lexus are a good example of a company that concentrated hard on the value proposition, it worked on intangible qualities such as "solidity", and "Feel" when it came to luxury from its inception. In this forum you all demonstrate how important that was because you all universally talk about the depth of quality on display in a Lexus. I felt that when I sat in an Rx over the weekend.

I'm asking about the ride simply because I'm aware of what ride means to me and need to have some idea that the inputs I'm feeling are going to match what I expect from the value proposition. From the conversation so far it seems everyone loves their car, so that helps

First_Lexus · December 11, 2020

@AlternativeLUX

Reading the thread, it strikes me that this will come down to a decision on the two aspects that you prioritise - it’s ride quality vs reliability.

Only you can ultimately make that choice, and a long test drive is the only sensible way to do so.

Whichever choice you make, you’re going to have to live with it and avoid any ‘buyer’s regret’ so I’ll wish you the very best of luck!

WipeOut · December 11, 2020

10 hours ago, AlternativeLUX said:

Hi Nigel,

Thanks for that. To be honest that's what I 'm in a quandary about at the moment. I have the funds to sort an RX, Xc90 R-Design or a Q7 , both have air suspension.

The difference between the XC90 Momentum and the R-Design in ride was marked. Not by much but it changed the body behaviour.

On the other hand my Merc has air - and the air suspension went mental a few times on a brand new car.

So I'm kind of torn on that question at the moment.

Suspension makes a difference to me simply because my journeys involve long distance motorway busting a lot of the time and I'm used to the reasonably smooth ride on the Merc. The XC90 momentum wasn't far off my Merc, but you could tell it was was sprung.

How would you describe on the RX in that respect, between the XC90 Momentum and the RX - which has the least wind noise, road noise, and Motorway poise?

While my XC90 Momentum was often in for repair, I did have regular use of the managers R-Design. My recollection is I preferred the ride of the XC90 Momentum. Personally I would avoid low profile tyres if you want comfort and quietness. For me the R-Design distracted from the XC90's qualities as a comfortable car. Air suspenion with a low profile, over a steel sprung with a high profile, if you want comfort and quietness I would go for the latter.

As for quietness and comfort on the motorway, it would be close, but the RX would be better. The RX is much more refined in town and traffic due to the qualities of the hybrid drive.

I've owned previous Volvo's, and S60, and a XC70 from new which I was happy with. However since the takeover of Volvo by Geely if relaibility is important to you, I would avoid Volvo. That's backed by the customer satisfaction surveys and my experience.

Spacewagon52 · December 11, 2020

9 hours ago, Barry14UK said:

How others evaluate and conclude is subjective. What matters is how you judge the cars which could be quite different. For example, someone who listens to music all the time is not likely to notice whether one car is going to produce a couple more or less decibels than another. What some consider a hard ride others will find comfortable. You are never going to get a car that everyone considers is best in every aspect. One individual will prioritise different aspects to another when in the driving seat and that is what you should base your decision on, if a known factor such as reliability and dealer excellence is of lesser importance to you.

Incidentally, although there has been less feed back on the 4th Generation RX cars, many have commented on how the previous Generation cars have been improved in ride and handling by fitting different tyres to the original Dunlops that most come with as new, so that's another moot point.

Excellent post - hits the nail on the head! I am fascinated by what car people choose. From what I have read Ali, you are spending your own money?

That makes the priorities very different in my mind. If you are choosing a company car, then for me the options would be much wider. I would not have to worry about running costs, repairs or breakdowns. If I buy a lemon, the garage will supply me with a replacement until my company car is repaired (please shoot me down in flames if I am incorrect). I do not need to worry as my unreliable and costly steed will be replaced after 2/3 years but not at my expense!. Another factor would be the tax BIK - that is why so many people are choosing Tesla.

If I am spending MY money then that is a completely different ball game. The car we can afford is usually our second biggest purchase after the house!

Many questions come into play. How much can I afford to spend? When will I be able to afford to replace the car? How long do I intend to keep the car?

What is the warranty length? What are the running costs? Mpg, tax, fuel, insurance. servicing.

I wonder how many of you younger (less than 45 years old) drivers have sat on the side of a road waiting for the AA to come to your assistance? And I am NOT talking about once! I had a Mk1 and Mk 2 Ford Cortina and I became very friendly with the AA recovery team!

So depending on your age and experience, something I call the BIG "E", reliability, comfort, luxury, overall running costs are my priorities (in that order) if I am spending my money. What car fits this description? Lexus, simples! That is owning any age of Lexus! I have had a new car and young cars. The Lexi I now own are the oldest cars I have ever owned, but they are by far the BEST. They may not smell new, but after a sprinkle of Autofresh you can not tell the difference!

Others may wish to differ!

AlternativeLUX · December 11, 2020

Hi SpaceWagon Dave,

Just now, Spacewagon52 said:

f I am spending MY money then that is a completely different ball game.

Spot on. That's why this choice is important.

I have always bought my own car and I'm very careful on how I spend my money to make sure I get the best all round value for my money.

I'm a veteran of the oily rag brigade and reliability is key for me, far too much PTSD standing by the side of the road in the rain either fixing or waiting for the AA

The crashing disappointment with Merc was not just that a car with under 0K on its odo should not ave a) bits falling off and b) have a major component collapse , let's not go into all the technical faults.

What was worse was that when they were told about this stuff, they wrote my complaints off as whinging and didn't do the follow up. I told them i could feel sway and uneven body control for up to a year before the suspension went bust. On top of that, when they did do the repair, they didn't record it properly, so when it went for a follow up they wanted to charge me.

I also don't want to be a year down the line and be irritated by the car's things like its ride, its noise, its foibles. I don't want to be sitting in traffic , having spent my money on my car, and be looking at others scooting past thinking I should have pumped for that.

Lastly, this is going to be our family car so I need it be able to purchase it and keep it for a very long time

Al

Spacewagon52 · December 11, 2020

Just now, AlternativeLUX said:

I also don't want to be a year down the line and be irritated by the car's things like its ride, its noise, its foibles. I don't want to be sitting in traffic , having spent my money on my car, and be looking at others scooting past thinking I should have pumped for that.

Lastly, this is going to be our family car so I need it be able to purchase it and keep it for a very long time

Al

If you are keeping it for a long time then Lexus should be your choice.

Also I would be very surprised, if in a year's ownership of your Lexus, if you will be disappointed. The opposite usually occurs, they grow on you even more when you begin to appreciate how good they are. Take out the extended warranty for peace of mind and enjoy driving again.

I would be more than happy to buy you a pint of beer if I am wrong! Hear from you in a year then?

royoftherovers · December 11, 2020

Ali, your consistent theme has been the need for reliability, so

Your 1st choice Ali is..............................................Lexus RX

Your 2nd choice Ali is ...........................................Lexus RX

and your 3rd choice has to be..............................Lexus RX.

If you came to see me in your capacity as a Consultant in an SUV vehicle which was either Audi, BMW,Merc or Volvo I would immediately form the view that I would not wish to receive any advice from you about anything from a guy who has selected a vehicle for so called status.

Now if you arrived in a Lexus RX, I would take the view that you have selected a vehicle that embraces all of your requirements in terms of minimising risk,maximising reliability, family protection and customer service. And we would get along like a house on fire.

Please do not think me cheeky or rude,but my advice is free to you for you to do as you wish.

Oh, and do not forget to seek advice from the Boss of your household as she holds the power of veto ! :):):)

Spacewagon52 · December 11, 2020

One thing I would add generally about reliability and things going wrong. It is less of a hassle IF the fault CAN be repaired and you don't get a series of issues. The new VW ID3 is one example I am thinking about!

mikey2001 · December 11, 2020

7 hours ago, WipeOut said:

While my XC90 Momentum was often in for repair, I did have regular use of the managers R-Design. My recollection is I preferred the ride of the XC90 Momentum. Personally I would avoid low profile tyres if you want comfort and quietness. For me the R-Design distracted from the XC90's qualities as a comfortable car. Air suspenion with a low profile, over a steel sprung with a high profile, if you want comfort and quietness I would go for the latter.

As for quietness and comfort on the motorway, it would be close, but the RX would be better. The RX is much more refined in town and traffic due to the qualities of the hybrid drive.

Although my previous Jaguar XF didn't have air suspension, it did have Adaptive Dynamics (steel springs with adaptive dampers) and low profile tyres (255/35/R20). The ride was not uncomfortable, but the noise from these tyres was greater in my opinion to my RX (which has steel springs, no adaptive suspension, but sits on 235/55/R20 rubber).

I should add a caveat that the Jag was by no means a noisy car, which is essentially how high I've put the bar on how quiet the RX is (unless my hearing has deteriorated in the intervening years! 😄).

royoftherovers · December 11, 2020

54 minutes ago, mikey2001 said:

Although my previous Jaguar XF didn't have air suspension, it did have Adaptive Dynamics (steel springs with adaptive dampers) and low profile tyres (255/35/R20). The ride was not uncomfortable, but the noise from these tyres was greater in my opinion to my RX (which has steel springs, no adaptive suspension, but sits on 235/55/R20 rubber).

I should add a caveat that the Jag was by no means a noisy car, which is essentially how high I've put the bar on how quiet the RX is (unless my hearing has deteriorated in the intervening years! 😄).

A 35 tyre profile will not do any favours regardless of build quality.

route66 · December 11, 2020

7 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

snip...

If you came to see me in your capacity as a Consultant in an SUV vehicle which was either Audi, BMW,Merc or Volvo I would immediately form the view that I would not wish to receive any advice from you about anything from a guy who has selected a vehicle for so called status.

snip ...

What if he turned up in one of these:

I wouldn't mind at all - probably ask him for a drive! Having said that ...

Quote

I work in consulting, one of the things that is important to us is what we call the value proposition

If he started talking about such nonsense, I'd show him the door. Even if he was driving an Alfa. I much prefer consultants who speak standard English. You know, the sort you use with your family and friends; not this:

Quote

Darling, to help address my key objectives for this meal, could you leverage your proximity to the sodium chloride and pass it to me please?

royoftherovers · December 11, 2020

That`s a great contribution A. Both funny and learned.

My bottom line is that it`s a blooming FIAT and he said he wants reliability !

He cannot possibly be a real Consultant, if that is the conclusion of his researches!!

I bet that Ali is spilling his pre-dinner drink reading all our concerns about someone who only asked for a bit of advice and is receiving an analysis of his real vocation.

I do hope chooses the Lexus `cos if his missus sees that RED ITALIAN STALLION WE ARE DOOMED !

route66 · December 11, 2020

Just now, AlternativeLUX said:

Route86 .. hi mate.. I'm not really here for banter about my day job. It was just a contribution. Have a good day. If you do want to show me the door I'll leave.

I'm not going anywhere yet, and thanks everyone else for all the great advice.

There will be no defenestration.

Apologies 😜

AlternativeLUX · December 11, 2020

Just now, royoftherovers said:

If you came to see me in your capacity as a Consultant in an SUV vehicle which was either Audi, BMW,Merc or Volvo I would immediately form the view that I would not wish to receive any advice from you about anything from a guy who has selected a vehicle for so called status.

Didn't choose it for status. I chose because it had the Drive Assyst package and I used to do 800 miles a week for work on motorways. No other car at the time came with a similar set of technologies that worked well.

AlternativeLUX · December 11, 2020

Hi everyone,

I thought I'd give you all an update. Did a test drive today on the Rx450H L Premier/Premium?

Overall great car and good experience. This version has standard coils and I was happy with the ride. It's roughly the same as my Merc and a little better than the XC90 Momentum I drove. Things like the Q7 , XC90s with air suspension are more wafty.

Solid material and build quality.

Noise levels great, engine has a nice rumble. You get used to the CVT. Infotainment was too much to mess about with in the short time I had. Going to go for a Takumi next and see if I can tell the difference in adaptive springs.

A

AlternativeLUX · December 11, 2020

Route86 .. hi mate.. I'm not really here for banter about my day job. It was just a contribution. Have a good day. If you do want to show me the door I'll leave.

I'm not going anywhere yet, and thanks everyone else for all the great advice.

royoftherovers · December 11, 2020

Just now, AlternativeLUX said:

Hi everyone,

I thought I'd give you all an update. Did a test drive today on the Rx450H L Premier/Premium?

Overall great car and good experience. This version has standard coils and I was happy with the ride. It's roughly the same as my Merc and a little better than the XC90 Momentum I drove. Things like the Q7 , XC90s with air suspension are more wafty.

Solid material and build quality.

Noise levels great, engine has a nice rumble. You get used to the CVT. Infotainment was too much to mess about with in the short time I had. Going to go for a Takumi next and see if I can tell the difference in adaptive springs.

A

Very pleased for you Ali. Hope it all goes well.

Sincere apologies about the banter,but we are a friendly lot.

Stay well and take care.

Barry14UK · December 11, 2020

Where people are put off buying the RX it is largely because of the CVT box or the infotainment. I would still prefer a good modern conventional type auto box but for me it was not a deal breaker being more than offset by the overall attributes of the car. I fitted a TomTom nav on my car (a third Generation) because this was very poor on the Lexus. This has since been improved on the 4th Generation model and I read has been further improved with infotainment on the latest iteration.

You will doubtless have realized that some of John's comments are sometimes a bit tongue in cheek and a 'little' biased but he does come up with useful advice and information.

As regards the Stelvio, it is certainly one of the most attractive suvs and I did consider it along with the German premium marques. However, as a fair wedge coming out of my pocket, I was not prepared to risk it bearing in mind problems I have had with Italian cars and the reputation they have, (although we keep being told quality has improved). Had it been provided by my company, and I was quite a few years younger, I would have given it a go. The Quadrifoglio version must be quite an exciting motor!

olliesgrandad · December 11, 2020

On 12/9/2020 at 10:32 AM, AlternativeLUX said:

Hi all,

Thank you for the replies

Would you say the ride is equal to cars with air suspension?

How loud the road / wind noise? I found the XC90 very good on the noise front.

I've not driven a Lexus with air suspension but I do enjoy wafting along in the RX.

I used to own a Mercedes 300ce which in 1990 cost £42000 which today means it equates to around £100000 car and was beautifully built . That was a wonderful long distance cruiser and the Lexus is on a par for ride comfort.