Tyres

[MadJam250]

Hi. I'm sure this has been asked before, but what makes do you guys recommend for tyres for your CT200s please? 

My priorities are safety, long wearing and quietness. 

Cheers

[BoutTime]

Just fitted x4 Michelin Cross Climate +.

Noticeable improvement for me. Quieter, less harsh, and incredibly grippy in the wet. They are an all season tyre with a summer bias and are highly recommended on this forum.

Kwik Fit had a deal on recently nso I got all four fitted for just over £400 with a set of true wireless earbuds thrown in for free.

[royoftherovers]

14 minutes ago, BoutTime said:

Just fitted x4 Michelin Cross Climate +.

Noticeable improvement for me. Quieter, less harsh, and incredibly grippy in the wet. They are an all season tyre with a summer bias and are highly recommended on this forum.

Kwik Fit had a deal on recently nso I got all four fitted for just over £400 with a set of true wireless earbuds thrown in for free.

Good price Ricky.What size were the tyres + profile please?

[BoutTime]

3 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Good price Ricky.What size were the tyres + profile please?

[royoftherovers]

Just now, BoutTime said:

Wow, a 45 profile is low. Noise reduction would have been greater had you fitted 50 or 55 profile if that had been allowed by the Handbook.

Anyway enjoy your new ride.

[BoutTime]

Just now, royoftherovers said:

Wow, a 45 profile is low. Noise reduction would have been greater had you fitted 50 or 55 profile if that had been allowed by the Handbook.

Anyway enjoy your new ride.

It's the factory fitted profile. They actually don't look as the Yokohama low due to the sidewall design. But they are far less crashy. Very pleased with them.

[SJT]

5 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

Wow, a 45 profile is low. Noise reduction would have been greater had you fitted 50 or 55 profile if that had been allowed by the Handbook.

Anyway enjoy your new ride.

Mine is also an Advance Plus like BoutTime's running on 45 profile.  Not too harsh a ride... quite bearable really although I see that mine are 225mm width (225/17 R17 91Y eagle f1 asymmetric 3)

So may things to consider......

[BoutTime]

4 minutes ago, SJT said:

Mine is also an Advance Plus like BoutTime's running on 45 profile.  Not too harsh a ride... quite bearable really although I see that mine are 225mm width (225/17 R17 91Y eagle f1 asymmetric 3)

So may things to consider......

Great tyres those. Had them on an Audi A3 and a Jaguar XF. But really impressed with these Cross Climates.

[SJT]

10 hours ago, SJT said:

Mine is also an Advance Plus like BoutTime's running on 45 profile.  Not too harsh a ride... quite bearable really although I see that mine are 225mm width (225/17 R17 91Y eagle f1 asymmetric 3)

So may things to consider......

When reading any forum I get very annoyed at the extremely poor spelling and punctuation....... however I now hang my head in shame.. (should have typed MANY not MAY)

[Las Palmas]

Continental Conti Premium Contact since many years on many cars. Now they are Continental Conti Premium Contact 2.
Last a long time, fine in dry and wet, reasonably quiet.

[MadJam250]

Thanks for all the recommendations 

[Linas.P]

For longevity I still think Michelin is king. Regarding having all-season tyres is a choice - many people thinks that all-season will always have better grip, but that is not true. Depends where you live, depends what sorts of roads you are driving on. It is fact that summer tyres would be safer on dry roads as long as temperature remains 8C+, most premium summer tyres are as well very good on wet roads again as long as temperature drops below 8C. The biggest advantage of summer tyres over all-season is always going to be wear and fuel economy - there is just no way all-season tyres with softer compound could match the mileage and wear.

So my advise would be to go for good summer tyres if you in the city, and consider all-season tyres if you more int the country-side.

[BoutTime]

25 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

For longevity I still think Michelin is king. Regarding having all-season tyres is a choice - many people thinks that all-season will always have better grip, but that is not true. Depends where you live, depends what sorts of roads you are driving on. It is fact that summer tyres would be safer on dry roads as long as temperature remains 8C+, most premium summer tyres are as well very good on wet roads again as long as temperature drops below 8C. The biggest advantage of summer tyres over all-season is always going to be wear and fuel economy - there is just no way all-season tyres with softer compound could match the mileage and wear.

So my advise would be to go for good summer tyres if you in the city, and consider all-season tyres if you more int the country-side.

These are the first all-season tyres I've ever fitted. I toyed for years with fitting winter tyres. My Jaguar XF had them fitted when I first got it and I noticed the increased road noise when swapping them out for summer tyres.

I would possibly agree that so far the fuel consumption has been a little worse. But the temperatures have been lower anyway and we have had plenty of rain.

What I would say is that in the summer months a summer tyre will be better than a winter or all-season tyre, but the difference is nowhere near as stark when comparing how much worse they are in the winter. The difference is quite shocking. In fact it's well widely accepted that in the winter a 2WD car fitted with winter tyres is safer than a 4WD fitted with summer tyres. Especially in the snow. 4WD helps with accelerating but does nothing for braking. I've read a few motoring experts state that you would be better off running winter tyres all year round rather than summer tyres if safety is your primary concern. Especially with our climate. What muddies the water further is that not everyone fits premium summer tyres. So it's possible that a decent all-season tyre could out perform a lower quality summer tyre even in the summer. Plus we do have rain in the summer.

Having ran these now for a few weeks I'm already of the opinion that I wouldn't think of fitting anything else to my CT. Unless of course they prove to wear prematurely by some huge amount. They are extremely quiet (which makes a big difference to me in a hybrid), less harsh, and have incredible grip in the wet. Temperatures are only just approaching the 7 deg C threshold but remember the Cross Climates have a summer bias. I drive a mix of town, country and motorway miles all year round and for me these are the jack of all trades that I need.

[Linas.P]

Few points I agree with and few I where I don't..

Are premium all-season (say CrossClimates) better than budget summer tyres - absolutely... I don't even know why would anyone fit "budget" tyres on the car, because I consider that a false economy. So I agree here.

However, if we take two tyres for similar price e.g. CrossClimate vs. PS4 (actually cheaper), then PS4 will be better in any circumstances if ~7-8C+. Overall, CrossClimate would be sort of mediocre premium summer tyre when compared with most premium summer options in summer e.g. Dunlop Sportmaxx RT/RT2, ContiPremium and Sport Contacts 5-6, Michelin Primacy 4, PS4/4s etc. will be better tyres in summer. But when it comes to sort of mid-range like Avons, Falkens etc. I am not sure - maybe CrossClimate comes on top, maybe not.

And yes I agree that CrossClimate is more summer tyre than it is winter, but that comes to my next point - we do not have winters in UK! Yes it depends on where you are in UK and my view may be biased a little bit because I live in London, but there are between 2 days and 2 weeks of mild winter at most. That said I am quite confident that at least in South England summer tyres are better option for ~340+ days. And it is not like summer tyres just suddenly looses all the grip below 7-8C, they are gradually becoming less efficient.

The real cut-off for summer tyres is -1C, as soon as temps hits -1C and ice forms summer tyres will have 0 grip and so does all-seasons. It does not matter if you hit black ice on PS4s or Cross-Climates, outcome will be the same. So the only real benefit of all-seasons are conditions like "wet snow" (sludge) and temperatures between 0C and ~8C e.g. if we have a lot of snow but temperature stays around 0C and it is sort of freezing overnight and melting during the day, then this is where such tyres are beneficial. There are countries where such conditions are common for 6 months - like Eastern and Central Europe. In UK we simply don't have such weather... either is warmer or it is simply wet.. and when it freezes over during night it will be ice... and on ice the only thing which could save you is spikes.

How many driving wheels you have is sort of does not matter if none of the wheels have a grip, so this is fact - 2WD on winter tyres will be better than 4WD on summer tyres in winter.

I think the worst "feature" of all-season tyres is "false sense of security", because with summer tyres your grip will progressively become worse below 8C and thus you start driving more carefully as you can feel less grip. What all season tyres does they feel grippy all the way until they are not. And as I say when either summer or all-season tyre hits ice - there will be instantly no grip.

For the same reason I prefer the days when all season tyres were not popular in UK, before people simply wold not drive when it snows (and frankly that is better because Brits do not have experience driving on slippery roads), now people fit all season tyres and thy think they are gods and have infinite grip... and this results in more accidents when it goes below -1C.

 

 

 

[BoutTime]

For what it's worth to you (which may be very little 😉) I disagree with most of what you say. 7 Deg c decreasing is the point at which a winter tyre becomes beneficial over a summer tyre. For anyone traveling early hours in the winter as I have for many years this is a fair percentage of winter months.

Have a look at these results. I'd rather make do with a slight performance hit in the summer than a massive performance hit in the winter.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/92873/all-season-tyre-test-2019-results-by-category

[royoftherovers]

Thanks Ricky, I was just about to inform Linas that -1 should have been -7.

[Sundance]

As has been written, down here in the South snow is now so infrequent that I cannot see how the additional cost of fitting winter tyres can be justified, or even cross-climates, all-season or all-weather tyres for that matter, whatever the differences in branding might be. 🤔

Good quality standard (summer?) tyres should be fine in all weathers providing you're sensible. After all, before winter tyres arrived we did learn how to modify our driving styles in wet, cold, ice or snow, preferably not venturing out at all in the more serious conditions. That said, now that my car is RWD whereas my previous was FWD I shall probably invest in a reliable pair of snow socks, or maybe even chains, for the rare occasion that I might get caught out. 🙂

Of course in many European Countries the fitting of winter tyres is obligatory so when you buy a car you automatically include two sets of rubber and have to store the set that's not in use ... at a cost naturally. But in the UK? ... no ... especially not south of Watford! 😉

[BoutTime]

12 minutes ago, Sundance said:

As has been written, down here in the South snow is now so infrequent that I cannot see how the additional cost of fitting winter tyres can be justified, or even cross-climates, all-season or all-weather tyres for that matter, whatever the differences in branding might be. 🤔

Good quality standard (summer?) tyres should be fine in all weathers providing you're sensible. After all, before winter tyres arrived we did learn how to modify our driving styles in wet, cold, ice or snow, preferably not venturing out at all in the more serious conditions. That said, now that my car is RWD whereas my previous was FWD I shall probably invest in a reliable pair of snow socks, or maybe even chains, for the rare occasion that I might get caught out. 🙂

Of course in many European Countries the fitting of winter tyres is obligatory so when you buy a car you automatically include two sets of rubber and have to store the set that's not in use ... at a cost naturally. But in the UK? ... no ... especially not south of Watford! 😉

Winter tyres and all-season tyres are an entirely different proposition to snow tyres. This is not about snow. Have a look at the results I've linked. And that isn't the only information available online. I'm speaking from first hand experience. And Im from the South East and now live in the South West.

To suggest the cut off for summer tyres is -1 Deg c is wide of the mark and contradicts all if the data available.

[Linas.P]

43 minutes ago, BoutTime said:

Winter tyres and all-season tyres are an entirely different proposition to snow tyres. This is not about snow. Have a look at the results I've linked. And that isn't the only information available online. I'm speaking from first hand experience. And Im from the South East and now live in the South West.

To suggest the cut off for summer tyres is -1 Deg c is wide of the mark and contradicts all if the data available.

I think you taking my statements "little bit" extremely...

First of all by "cut-off" I meant - there is no grip at all. And that will be temperature where H2O turns solid... same temperature applies to both summer and all-season tyres, even most winter tyres could not grip on ice. The only thing which grips ice is metal studs - but in UK you will lose them all long before you find ice (not to mention they damage roads). If you think that all season tyres are better on ice then clearly you haven't tried using all season tyres on ice. But I agree that summer tyres are increasingly less efficient when temperature drops below ~7-8C.

Secondly, I mentioned quite clearly that choice to get all season tyres depends on what you need. If you live in rural area, up north or if as you mentioned you do a lot of driving in early morning, when you might have roads freezing overnight, then this is good enough reason to consider all-season tyres. I have no issue with that.

However, based on my experience driving on UK roads for over 12 years I could count days of "winter" on my fingers. Yes perhaps snow melts down before I wake-up , or it happens to be non-working day, but as far as I can remember it was only dozen times when I got into car on summer tyres and thought to myself "damn it is slippery today, I need to drive carefully".

Overall, I just want to point our that all-season tyres are the type which has most misconceptions about them. The are not winter tyres, they are no good on ice, they are not better than summer tyres in terms of dry and even wet grip, they do not work below -1/0C. So what they really do? They are generally better for autumn/spring weather where you more likely to encounter mud, slush snow, maybe some rotting leaves or puddles. They do perform better by having little bit softer compound and more aggressive thread pastern with deeper grooves they can provide more grip in such conditions. However, if you have dry road even at say 2C, simple summer tyre will outperform all-season tyre - unless one of above conditions are present.

These is big misconception with temperatures as well - sometimes it is the air temperature which matters, sometimes it is road temperature and sometimes it is actual tyre temperature. For this reason is entirely possible to destroy winter tyre if you driving on dry motorway @70MPH even in -40C. Why? Because at high speed the tyre itself could easily overheat and then it will shred itself to pieces. For the same reason even at say 2C, if you summer tyres are up-to temp and road is dry they will grip quite well. Difference is that your all-season tyres will be grippy from get go, but you need to cover few miles for summer tyres to warm-up.

Finally, what magazines says you need to take with pinch of salt - in the end of the day their business is to promote car products and they want you to buy tyres. I am not saying that what they saying is outright false, they do compare certain tyres like for like etc. But the actually reason whenever to have certain type of tyres is often forgotten on not well justified. And this not only includes all-season tyres... likewise do you really need UHP tyres if your cars has 150hp and you just driving around town - I argue that you don't, but magazines will tell you that you must have the best and that is Michelin PS4S!

55 minutes ago, Sundance said:

That said, now that my car is RWD whereas my previous was FWD I shall probably invest in a reliable pair of snow socks

 Just don't - what is the point of having RWD then! 😁

 

[BoutTime]

Linas did you read the test? The results aren't something I'd take with a pinch of salt. We can disagree on this that's fine. I've made my choice based on personal experience and a fair bit of research.

I've hit a roundabout at 0330 in the morning in a light dusting of snow. I've been unable to get off a drive and out of a road due to snow. I've held up 15 cars from getting into a carpark. Yes this was all in BMW but once when I was stuck in snow a friend of mine had to tow me out of a carpark. He goaded me by performing doughnuts in his own car when mine couldn't move an inch. What car was he driving? A BMW with winter tyres.

Also bare in mind that the Cross Climates were developed from a summer tyre.

[Linas.P]

Ohhh.. these are my favourite threads ! I have expected this will end-up exactly in the same way... 😁

Did I criticised your choice? No... I am sure you have your reasons and your choice of Cross-Climates is well justified. However, I have never experienced below in UK over 12 years driving (and yes, I never leave home by 03:30 and my car is parked in underground garage, so my experience will be different):

42 minutes ago, BoutTime said:

I've hit a roundabout at 0330 in the morning in a light dusting of snow. I've been unable to get off a drive and out of a road due to snow. I've held up 15 cars from getting into a carpark. Yes this was all in BMW but once when I was stuck in snow a friend of mine had to tow me out of a carpark. He goaded me by performing doughnuts in his own car when mine couldn't move an inch. What car was he driving? A BMW with winter tyres.

And did I say Cross-Climates are bad tyres? No... they are one of the best tyres on sale and only beaten by leading UHP tyres when temperatures are ~8C+ or roads are clean from all the junk.

What I said is simply that based on my experience weather which would require all-season tyres is rare occurrence. And in weather which I have experienced would not benefit from all-season tyres. 

Besides when you say below, what tyres you comparing it with? Was that original Bridgestones on CT?

On 11/11/2020 at 4:38 PM, BoutTime said:

Noticeable improvement for me. Quieter, less harsh, and incredibly grippy in the wet.

 

[BoutTime]

1 minute ago, Linas.P said:

Ohhh.. these are my favourite threads ! I have expected this will end-up exactly in the same way... 😁

Did I criticised your choice? No... I am sure you have your reasons and your choice of Cross-Climates is well justified. However, I have never experienced below in UK over 12 years driving:

And did I say Cross-Climates are bad tyres? No... they are one of the best tyres on sale and only beaten by leading UHP tyres when temperatures are ~8C+ or roads are clean from all the junk.

What I said is simply that based on my experience weather which would require all-season tyres is rare occurrence. And in weather which I have experienced would not benefit from all-season tyres. 

Besides when you say below, what tyres you comparing it with? Was that original Bridgestones on CT?

 

I've been driving for 30 years in the UK. The examples I gave above all happened in the space of 6 years. The tyres I removed from my CT were Yokohamas on the front and Nexen on the rear. I also didn't say you criticised my choice. And as for why these are your favourite threads that also is lost on me.

You also appear to drive an RC which is a completely different type of car to a CT. You may not wish to take the small compromise in summer performance. I on the other hand need a car that is safe to drive all year round from very early in the morning to very late at night, on motorways, country lanes, around town and on A and B roads. A car that I can leave in an airport carpark in the middle of winter for a week at a time and know I've got a good chance of getting out of the carpark when I collect it.

All-season tyres may not suit you, but they are exactly what I need.

[Sundance]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

Just don't - what is the point of having RWD then! 😁

 

I'm sure you know very well that RWD gives better overall handling and arguably improved fuel economy whereas FWD affords the driver much better traction in slippery conditions ... and it's nice to have the choice don't you think? 🤔

Although to get a proper answer to your question you might wish to pose it to car manufacturers.  Historically I guess that cost might have been near the top of their reasons but in more modern times maybe less so. 🙂

All I'm suggesting is that when I'm in a RWD vehicle with summer tyres in snowy conditions my choices are (1) don't go out or (2) drive carefully with the added option of snow socks or chains to assist if conditions get difficult. 😉

[Linas.P]

12 minutes ago, BoutTime said:

1. The tyres I removed from my CT were Yokohamas on the front and Nexen on the rear.

2. I also didn't say you criticised my choice.

3. And as for why these are your favourite threads that also is lost on me.

4. All-season tyres may not suit you, but they are exactly what I need.

1. And that explains your experience - but could you say the same if you compare that with say Dunlop Sportmaxx RT2 or Michelin PS4? Probably no, because I know for fact both would be quieter, more comfortable and actually grippier in most circumstances, with exceptions which we have both outlined above.

2. Exactly, because you made right choice... the only thing I am asking the OP/reader here is to consider whenever they have circumstances like you and whenever all-season tyres are as well the best choice for them.

3. That was irony...

4. Exactly, my point...

I was trying to dig through archive of my pictures, because one of those rare events where I kind of wished I had winter tyres happened few years ago when "beast from the east hit" and this is the condition when I arrived to the office ~9AM:

So by 9AM the temp was already +4C and although entry to car par was little bit dodgy overall I had no issues getting to work on my Dunlop Sportmaxx RT2s at the time. What I am trying to say is that even in historic one in the life-time storm London remained in condition which didn't require winter or all season tyres. And even if it would I would rather work from home than fit different tyres... But again everyone to their own!

 

[RK1975]

I've just had Mitchellin PS4 put on all corners.  They're fab.  Handle very well.  The fitter recommended a higher load rate for increased wear (something about potholes), but also advised not to go with a higher profile as "it would look daft"!  So I've stuck with the 45 profile on his advice and he is highly rated.