Alternative shocks absorbers for GS450H

[reid]

I have read with much interest the informative discussion raised following comments by 'Ziggy 1024' on the purposes and affects of 'Hybrid / Pwr' selections but I am more interested in seeking advice on the subject of using non - standard shock absorbers and ones that are not ride selectable.

I bought my GS450H two years ago and it has just passed its tenth birthday; I am delighted with this car.  However just after my original dealer warranty expired a new front shock absorber had to be fitted - ouch ! and at the last 'MOT' an advisory was raised that one of the rear shocks was 'misting'.  I assume therefore a replacement will be due within the next ten months, prior to the next  'MOT'.

I never select any other ' suspension/performance' mode though I have confirmed their serviceability during the original test drive with the dealer 26 months ago. I bought this car for its sublime 'magic carpet' ride and as I will not see my mid 70's again, I really have no wish to harden the suspension or change the gear ratios in the quest for more performance. Therefore  I seek advice as follows;

1/ Has anyone experience of replacing the original selectable shocks with good quality, regular non adjustable shocks and if so, with which brand / model. The cost savings must be considerable.

2/ Would it be a requirement to change all four shocks to  'regular' examples or could one spread the load to say the fronts one year and the rears the next? 

3/ Would this change cause warning  lights to to be permanently displayed?

4/ I accept that disengaging the original adjustable shocks would militant against a possible easy sale of the car in the future but quite honestly I have no intention of selling in the foreseeable future and already the car is into its eleventh year so resale values are already quite low. The standard factory shocks seem to be a constant source of high expenditure such that one wonders if they are really up to the job with such a heavy car.  I have looked also on the American version of this forum and the litany of complaints on this model's shock absorber makes for interesting reading.

Comments would be welcome.  Thank you.

[Britprius]

1 hour ago, reid said:

Has anyone experience of replacing the original selectable shocks with good quality, regular non adjustable shocks and if so, with which brand / model.

Hi Reid.

The GS non hybrid shocks are a strait swap for the adjustable hybrid shocks. The ride should be very similar to the hybrid versions, but without the stiffening when driven spiritedly. The non adjustable shocks are about 1/4 of the cost of the adjustable versions. 
The adjustable shocks are adjusted by a small motor mounted on top of the shocks, and these can be left in place "connected electrically" so that no warning lights appear on the dash.
The shocks could be replaced as axle pairs replacing just the fronts or rears as required. There is know physical difference to the look of the shocks, and unless some dismantling was done an insurance company would have great difficulty in knowing any such modification. 
Know spring compressor is required for changing the shocks making it a relatively easy job. I have changed shocks on my GS450H on the floor without any special tools. They take about 1 hour each to change.
I am in the same age category as yourself, but still enjoy the performance ability of the hybrid GS.
Any good units you have after doing the work could be sold on eBay greatly offsetting the cost of the new replacements. If a garage does the work for you insist that the old units are returned to you.

John. 

[reid]

Thank you very  much for your informative and comprehensive reply John and it seems that is the way I will go. I had hoped that someone might also suggest an alternative known make such as Bilstein or Spax as the shocks that Lexus fits to its cars do not seem to be particularly long lasting.

Still again - thank you.

[Mossypossy]

So are we saying that the extra weight of a hybrid GS does not warrant a stiffer shock?

[Britprius]

23 minutes ago, Mossypossy said:

So are we saying that the extra weight of a hybrid GS does not warrant a stiffer shock?

No it uses stiffer springs to take the extra weight. The shocks only dampen the movement, and in no way actually support the vehicle. 

John.

[Mossypossy]

Understood.

[200h]

try demon tweaks

https://www.demon-tweeks.com/uk/section/suspension/

add your car to the garage on the web site then search for your parts,

they sell road ,race & performance parts ,they are a well known for quality parts

[LexIS200Sport]

On 11/12/2020 at 4:50 PM, Mossypossy said:

So are we saying that the extra weight of a hybrid GS does not warrant a stiffer shock?

 

On 11/12/2020 at 5:17 PM, Britprius said:

No it uses stiffer springs to take the extra weight. The shocks only dampen the movement, and in no way actually support the vehicle. 

John.

I think there is more to that, John. For a given ride frequency, the force exerted by the damper is a function of both the spring stiffness and mass of the body.

If memory serves me well the GS450h is about 200kg heavier than the GS300 (with most of this added weight probably biased to the rear). Installing the shocks from a GS300 may cause the car to be underdamped, as the shocks don't exert adequate force to dampen the movement (and thus dissipate the energy) of the stiffer spring and heavier body. May not be an issue if the car is normally driven solo, but when loaded with 4 passengers + a full boot, I'm not so sure...

Speaking from personal experience, a good chunk of a vehicle's development time is spent tuning the springs and shocks as a matched pair.

[Britprius]

1 hour ago, LexIS200Sport said:

I think there is more to that,

While I agree that the damping for the GS300 "may" be less than the 450H overall the 300 will be damped somewhere in the middle of  the optimum setting of comfort against road holding, and load carrying. The 450 can have a setting that covers most scenarios. However it is a fact that the shocks do not carry the actual vehicle weight. The springs alone do this. Unless the shocks adjust automatically a single setting standard shock will only be correct on the 300 for one particular set of conditions that will not be that different to a 450 used for "comfortable" driving.

John 

[450 hh]

hi , l m looking for a part number for my gd450H 2008 rear shock absorbers, the local dealer is looking for 400 each , trying to source a little cheaper but need the part number apparently 

Thanks 

[Steven Lockey]

On 11/12/2020 at 5:17 PM, Britprius said:

No it uses stiffer springs to take the extra weight. The shocks only dampen the movement, and in no way actually support the vehicle. 

John.

Yes but heavier car means the same movement has more momentum that needs to be dampened to have the same effect. 
Its not a matter of taking the load.

 

 

On 11/11/2020 at 12:47 PM, reid said:

I bought my GS450H two years ago and it has just passed its tenth birthday; I am delighted with this car.  However just after my original dealer warranty expired a new front shock absorber had to be fitted - ouch ! and at the last 'MOT' an advisory was raised that one of the rear shocks was 'misting'.  I assume therefore a replacement will be due within the next ten months, prior to the next  'MOT'.

I never select any other ' suspension/performance' mode though I have confirmed their serviceability during the original test drive with the dealer 26 months ago. I bought this car for its sublime 'magic carpet' ride and as I will not see my mid 70's again, I really have no wish to harden the suspension or change the gear ratios in the quest for more performance. Therefore  I seek advice as follows;

1/ Has anyone experience of replacing the original selectable shocks with good quality, regular non adjustable shocks and if so, with which brand / model. The cost savings must be considerable.

2/ Would it be a requirement to change all four shocks to  'regular' examples or could one spread the load to say the fronts one year and the rears the next? 

3/ Would this change cause warning  lights to to be permanently displayed?

4/ I accept that disengaging the original adjustable shocks would militant against a possible easy sale of the car in the future but quite honestly I have no intention of selling in the foreseeable future and already the car is into its eleventh year so resale values are already quite low. The standard factory shocks seem to be a constant source of high expenditure such that one wonders if they are really up to the job with such a heavy car.  I have looked also on the American version of this forum and the litany of complaints on this model's shock absorber makes for interesting reading.

Comments would be welcome.  Thank you.

If the shock is functioning fine, don't replace it cos of 'misting' Mine had misting on the last 5 MOTs before it actually failed. 
Even if it completely fails, just means the ride is a bit 'bouncy'. Won't cause the car to be undriveable in any way. 

Only problem I can see from going to adjustable to non-adjustable is the car handling. Fairly sure the computer automatically
stiffens the shocks when cornering, accelerating on rough roads e.t.c. 

I had zero warning lights with dead shocks so you shouldn't get any with replaced shocks either.

I spent the £2k replacing all the shocks with originals. Honestly, unless you get a good deal, I think enough of that was labour, the
few hundred £ difference is worth getting originals IMHO.

[johnatg]

I don't think there's any automatic adjustment. If you switch to Sport+ mode you get (considerably) stiffer shocks, otherwise they just do their basic job. At least on my GS300h - are GS450h different suspension-wise? I very rarely use Sport+. (I'm talking Mk4 GS here - were Mk 3 different?)

[KayCee]

I do believe Stephen is correct  i sometimes Take bends a bit sharpish  and it is very rare i am in Sport or Sport + and i Have nil body roll so i think something happens with the shocks i do believe they  compensate the body roll

I may be wrong  but i am sure some of the bends i have took the back end would have let go but the car as been firmly planted to the road

 

[Adigl82]

On 11/11/2020 at 2:01 PM, Britprius said:

Hi Reid.

The GS non hybrid shocks are a strait swap for the adjustable hybrid shocks. The ride should be very similar to the hybrid versions, but without the stiffening when driven spiritedly. The non adjustable shocks are about 1/4 of the cost of the adjustable versions. 
The adjustable shocks are adjusted by a small motor mounted on top of the shocks, and these can be left in place "connected electrically" so that no warning lights appear on the dash.
The shocks could be replaced as axle pairs replacing just the fronts or rears as required. There is know physical difference to the look of the shocks, and unless some dismantling was done an insurance company would have great difficulty in knowing any such modification. 
Know spring compressor is required for changing the shocks making it a relatively easy job. I have changed shocks on my GS450H on the floor without any special tools. They take about 1 hour each to change.
I am in the same age category as yourself, but still enjoy the performance ability of the hybrid GS.
Any good units you have after doing the work could be sold on Ebay greatly offsetting the cost of the new replacements. If a garage does the work for you insist that the old units are returned to you.

John. 

Good evening John. Hope you still around, as I need some advice of what’s the part number , or a website ehere can I get the non hybrid suspension as I really need to replace all 4 , due to a fail pre mot, and my next mot is due pretty soon. 

Thanks