Upper Arm Bushings - LS460

[Gibbon62]

Hello All. 

 

Sorry if my topic is going to prompt a universal groan across the forum, but I am going to raise the perennial control arm issue again. 

After progressing through the IS and the GS I recently bought a used LS460 privately - 2009 and with 76K on the clock. Generally the car is in really good condition, the interior is immaculate and apart from needing a light correction the paint is in good shape too. 

The car has spent it its life in the dealer network and back in June it had a Visual Safety Report and this identified an advisory that was "NSF and OSF upper arm bushes torn" - quoting a £2800 repair. The car drives fine, but I plan on keeping it a good few years so want to get it sorted at some point. 

I know that this is a fairly common issue and there are more cost effective solutions. I called a local Bristol independent Lexus/Toyota specialist and they told me that would not do the work as previously they had issues with calibrating and suggested that the main dealer would be the best option. This threw me a bit. 

Is this calibration issue a real problem? The internet is awash with people replacing the bushings in their shed for £20 and they don't seem to mention calibration. 

I am happy to spend decent money getting it sorted, does any one have any experience of getting these done in the Bristol area? Is a indie suspension the best place to go?

ANY help would be appreciated.

Thanks. 

John

[Malc]

on our old fashioned Ls400s the UCAs ( upper control arms )  are about £550 each from Lexus but 50% of that for original Toyota parts imported from, say, Amayama / Rockauto ....  and fitting isn't too much of an issue AND they last about 150k - 200k miles 

NOW, your car is highly technical and no doubt requires some specialist attention for most mechanical and all other stuff ..........  but at £1400 a corner, blimey, that sounds ludicrous

Are they MOT Advisory worn too at this stage ?  could it be over zealous advisory by the Lexus main dealer ?

Someone hopefully, with a Ls460 will be reading your Post and bring some sensible " comfort "

Malc

[Gibbon62]

Hi Malc, thanks for the reply. No, clean bill of health on the MOT in August, no advisories. In fact it has passed all its MOTs since the dawn of time.

Yes, it could be over zealousness on the part of the technician. What I haven't done yet is actually take the wheels off and have a good look - once you can see a problem you can quantify a problem. 

I really don't mind sinking a couple of grand in to this car to keep her in good shape, I live by the "expensive new, expensive used" ethos and am planning a few preventative maintenance items such as a gearbox oil change - but 3 grand on what is effectively a rubber doughnut feels crazy to me. 

Thanks again. 

[cruisermark]

hi

I think the most cost effective to fix this would be to find another garage who have a press - then buy the bushings and get them changed over.

I've had a look at this video and it wont be too difficult for a garage to do - just need to be methodical

 

[Gibbon62]

Hi Mark. I saw this video too, which is why I am surprised the Lexus independent was so reluctant to get involved. We need people to be a bit creative if we are going to keep these cars on the road. I have a couple of decent chaps near me so will see what they say. I think people get nervous because the LS is a fairly complex beast. 

 

 

[steve2006]

Buy one get one free from Amayama ( excluding HMRC involvement !)

This is apparently another “ Out of Production” part......seemingly becoming popular even on later models.

[Gibbon62]

Hi Steve, I see them. I could buy them and get someone to replace them, I was just worried about the calibration issue. Will they need calibrating and is this a faff?

The last thing I want to do is replace them and somehow make the car worse.......and then have to take it to Lexus, tail between my legs, to get them to calibrate......

Cheers!

John

 

[Malc]

maybe just ask someone at Lexus .....  what needs calibrating with these ?

is there a manual you can see / look at to explain it all better ?

Malc

[cruisermark]

56 minutes ago, Gibbon62 said:

Hi Steve, I see them. I could buy them and get someone to replace them, I was just worried about the calibration issue. Will they need calibrating and is this a faff?

The last thing I want to do is replace them and somehow make the car worse.......and then have to take it to Lexus, tail between my legs, to get them to calibrate......

Cheers!

John

 

One thing I noticed in the video is that his car did not have air struts.

So having read your comment again I remembered something: a few years back a guy on this forum had a problem with his 430 - the ride height sensors failed meaning his car would not rise to the correct level - he decided to buy the sensors and have them replaced at his local garage - the garage managed to fit them but could'nt get the car to rise - he then had to have the car recovered to Lexus to have it recalibrated.

So thinking about your situation - if the struts need to be removed then there may be some truth in what the garage is saying 

So I think you will need to speak to a few more people/garages to gather some more information

[Gibbon62]

Hello Mark and Malc. 

I think Mark may have hit on the issue, its the air suspension that perhaps creates the need for calibration. In fact now I recall my conversation with the local indie he did ask if it has the air suspension and at that point he mentioned the calibration issue so it would make sense. 

I will call around a few places, what I need is a company understands such things, and not just your average garage. 

Right now the car rides fine, and I wont be doing many miles, so I need to get the wheels off and take a look for myself, if they are slightly worn I can live with it for now, but if they are falling apart I will need to act soon. 

And then it raises the questions about all the other arms and bushing......

 

[cruisermark]

I I have looked through the forum and found the post which i was referring to

 

[Cotswold Pete]

3 hours ago, Gibbon62 said:

 

ANY help would be appreciated.

 

Give Osaka in Newport a call, they have done roll bar bushings on my 400, so surely your bushings not a problem.  

Have had them do a few things with my LS, and they know their Lexus and Toyotas inside out.

AND you do not need to pay to go over the Bridge these days

[Gibbon62]

Thanks Mark. 

Hmm, that would make sense. These are complicated cars. I am tempted when the time comes to take a punt on getting them changed at a local garage and see how they get on, but in the knowledge that if it is all messed up when they have finished I might need to swallow my pride and stubbornness and take it to the main dealer who have the wizardry to fix it. 

It is a gamble that might work out, or might not. 

And maybe a fellow forum user will pop up with a garage who has the know how to do it properly. I don't mind spending money on keeping a nice car, but I hate wasting it. 

[Gibbon62]

Hi Pete, I saw them when I googled "Toyota independents near me" but wasn't sure what the score was. I will give them a call and let you know the outcome. Cheers. John. 

 

[cruisermark]

20 minutes ago, Gibbon62 said:

Thanks Mark. 

Hmm, that would make sense. These are complicated cars. I am tempted when the time comes to take a punt on getting them changed at a local garage and see how they get on, but in the knowledge that if it is all messed up when they have finished I might need to swallow my pride and stubbornness and take it to the main dealer who have the wizardry to fix it. 

It is a gamble that might work out, or might not. 

And maybe a fellow forum user will pop up with a garage who has the know how to do it properly. I don't mind spending money on keeping a nice car, but I hate wasting it. 

That might be an idea

A member here "the acre" replaced all 4 of his air suspension struts on his 430 by himself on his drive and they worked fine

[Gibbon62]

Hi Pete.

I just called them and spoke to Carl. He confirmed that changing them on an air suspension car is more of a faff then on a standard suspension car, but didn't seem to think the calibration would be a huge issue. They don't see many 460s so he is going to do some digging for me. Nice chap, really helpful and gave me good vibes. We will see what the outcome is. I am sure I can save some money over the £3k Lexus quote, but it may still cost a penny or two. 

I really need to get the wheels off and get some "ground truth".  

[Gibbon62]

Hi Pete.

I just called them and spoke to Carl. He confirmed that changing them on an air suspension car is more of a faff then on a standard suspension car, but didn't seem to think the calibration would be a huge issue. They don't see many 460s so he is going to do some digging for me. Nice chap, really helpful and gave me good vibes. We will see what the outcome is. I am sure I can save some money over the £3k Lexus quote, but it may still cost a penny or two. 

I really need to get the wheels off and get some "ground truth".  

[Gibbon62]

9 minutes ago, cruisermark said:

That might be an idea

A member here "the acre" replaced all 4 of his air suspension struts on his 430 by himself on his drive and they worked fine

Braver and more mechanically minded then I am......what a legend. 

 

[Gibbon62]

On 10/27/2020 at 3:34 PM, Gibbon62 said:

Hi Pete.

I just called them and spoke to Carl. He confirmed that changing them on an air suspension car is more of a faff then on a standard suspension car, but didn't seem to think the calibration would be a huge issue. They don't see many 460s so he is going to do some digging for me. Nice chap, really helpful and gave me good vibes. We will see what the outcome is. I am sure I can save some money over the £3k Lexus quote, but it may still cost a penny or two. 

I really need to get the wheels off and get some "ground truth".  

Hi Pete. 

 

Just a quick update. I took the wheels off to take a look, thought it may be useful to others to post the pictures. I can see that the bushings are in fact worn - if you zoom in you can see that the rubber is chewed up. I have sent the pictures over to Carl at Osaka for an opinion. I am still hoping I can simply replace the bushings, and not the entire arm. I will let you know the outcome. 

 

Cheers. 

 

John

[cruisermark]

Probably note worthy also is to check these when buying one - its a heavy car and clearly these to take a beating

[ambermarine]

There is a vid showing the replacement of the bushings in the control arms pressed in and out  with a bearing press.