My new (used!) GS450h - a few questions

R.S.C. · October 29, 2020

Apparently the tyres are an acceptable standard and Lexus Sidcup won’t change them unless it’s at my cost.
Disappointing that this is an acceptable tyre for the car through a Lexus Dealership.
I may pass this up to Lexus UK as previously advised.

royoftherovers · October 29, 2020

22 minutes ago, R.S.C. said:

Apparently the tyres are an acceptable standard and Lexus Sidcup won’t change them unless it’s at my cost.
Disappointing that this is an acceptable tyre for the car through a Lexus Dealership.
I may pass this up to Lexus UK as previously advised.

Have you pointed out that a low cost tyre fitted on to a vehicle capable of 155mph and 0-60 in less than 60 seconds is an unacceptable practice and you will if necessary take the matter up on this with Lexus U.K.and the H&S Executive, The Motor Ombudsman et al?

Hangie · October 29, 2020

As for 155mph if they got correct speed rating then they will not fall apart at least - different matter if you will be brace enough to go so fast on them 😉

R.S.C. · October 29, 2020

17 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Have you pointed out that a low cost tyre fitted on to a vehicle capable of 155mph and 0-60 in less than 60 seconds is an unacceptable practice and you will if necessary take the matter up on this with Lexus U.K.and the H&S Executive, The Motor Ombudsman et al?

I did have that as a phone conversation at which point the sales person said he would pass it up to the service manager who would contact me the next day. There was no contact. But an email the day after that from the sales person to say Service manager said they would not change the tyres.

royoftherovers · October 29, 2020

Put in all in writing to the Dealer Principal and copy it to the Organisations I have mentioned.

I bet the Daily Mail would be interested at some point?

Linas.P · October 29, 2020

On 10/27/2020 at 8:07 PM, R.S.C. said:

They did replace those two tyres with the Fullrun FrunTwo budget tyres that they stock!

(I’m surprised that they even stocked them!)

Simple question - would Lexus fit such tyre on the vehicle from the factory... and answer is obvious - NO! As such dealership should not have parts in stock which would not be acceptbale quality for the car manufacturer to fit.

If they do, then they should not - that is disgusting and simply unacceptable. Definitely the case for Lexus UK to get involved.

Have they touched on point that they fitted two very different tyres on the front?

10 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

I bet the Daily Mail would be interested at some point?

That would be interesting story! I would imagine not great for a brand...

R.S.C. · October 29, 2020

23 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Have they touched on point that they fitted two very different tyres on the front?

No. Not at all.

I’ll follow the advice and write the whole experience down. Most of it was done already when I emailed following advice above (thank you!). I’ll add to it then send.
I would have thought to Lexus UK alone with the suggestion of ‘if no satisfactory resolution then to ombudsmen H&S etc’ - unless you’d advise cc everyone from the outset??

royoftherovers · October 29, 2020

5 minutes ago, R.S.C. said:

No. Not at all.

I’ll follow the advice and write the whole experience down. Most of it was done already when I emailed following advice above (thank you!). I’ll add to it then send.
I would have thought to Lexus UK alone with the suggestion of ‘if no satisfactory resolution then to ombudsmen H&S etc’ - unless you’d advise cc everyone from the outset??

I suggest --the Dealer Principal and copy to Lexus U.K. first, then others if necessary.

Linas.P · October 29, 2020

10 minutes ago, R.S.C. said:

I would have thought to Lexus UK alone with the suggestion of ‘if no satisfactory resolution then to ombudsmen H&S etc’ - unless you’d advise cc everyone from the outset??

I think the Lexus UK in this case should be sort of on your side, sort of "independent mediator", so no point making threats to them. ‘if no satisfactory resolution then to ombudsmen H&S etc’ - this is the part for the actual Dealership, because responsibility to prepare the car to the satisfactory standards lies with them and not Lexus UK itself. Lexus UK is just interested party on the consumer side, because obviously they are the ones who wants you to have good experience with the brand "within reason", so if they think Dealerships misrepresents the brand they can "poke" them.

.... actually to add. I would be interested to see what is Lexus UK positions on their dealerships stocking Qingdao Fullrun tyres. Certainly, this cannot be globally or even nationally accepted standard.

johnatg · October 29, 2020

I found this - I rather think that an accountant-driven customer service department is going to think 'why not?'

https://tirereviewsandmore.com/fullrun-tire-reviews/

And if that is a general view within the tyre industry, it will be hard to get anywhere with ombudsman and any other mediator. I rather think it's time to cut your losses (and stress). Either go somewhere safe to explore the performance of these tyres and see if you can live with them, or just chuck them away and buy some decent mainstream tyres.

I now feel rather relieved that the dealer I bought my car from didn't succumb to my request to fit new tyres in place of two which earned advisories ('worn on inner edge' and 'surface tread breaking up') at the MoT carried out on the day the car was delivered to me. Very shortly after I got the car I chucked the two tyres away and bought a pair of Goodyear F1 Asymmetric 5.

Incidentally I complained to Lexus UK and they told me that policy is that tyres on Lexus-approved used cars are only replaced if the tread is less than 3mm. (I didn't discuss 'what with?')

royoftherovers · October 29, 2020

That`s a good find John.

See this https://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rtest.pl?rt_rubrik=pkw_sommerreifen&rt_profil=111110473&language=EN&dsco=110

The OP must do as he wishes. Had it been me I would have hoped to have agreed specific terms in writing before agreeing to purchase.

We will see what happens.

R.S.C. · October 29, 2020

Fair points above - it certainly is something that I should have clarified/agreed in writing including the detail of what replacement tyres.

Interesting reviews and I take the point that as long as they meet a minimum standard there is no reason why a company couldn't use them. However, I would have expected that an equivalent replacement to that originally specified for the car would have been used particularly by a Lexus Dealership; if they weren’t willing to pay for more than budget then the options should have been available for me to specify (though understand that perhaps I shouldn’t have assumed an equivalent standard to the original would be used)

I’ll update once I have a reply to the email.

Thanks all for your support and advice.

Vlady · October 30, 2020

Good Luck @R.S.C.!

R.S.C. · October 30, 2020

This is the response I had from Lexus UK:

“Unfortunately, it is hard for us to comment on conversations between you and Lexus Sidcup, as we were not privy to these. However, I have spoken with Lexus Sidcup who confirmed they would not fit premium tyres to a used car over 4 years old with 90,000 miles. Nevertheless, I recognise and understand your disappointment with the different tyres....”

They said that a named person at Lexus Sidcup Will contact me to investigate, discuss and address concerns.

royoftherovers · October 30, 2020

1 minute ago, R.S.C. said:

This is the response I had from Lexus UK:

“Unfortunately, it is hard for us to comment on conversations between you and Lexus Sidcup, as we were not privy to these. However, I have spoken with Lexus Sidcup who confirmed they would not fit premium tyres to a used car over 4 years old with 90,000 miles. Nevertheless, I recognise and understand your disappointment with the different tyres....”

They said that a named person at Lexus Sidcup Will contact me to investigate, discuss and address concerns.

Progress indeed Raj.

Be polite,but firm.

Lexus and Cheap Chinese tyres do not coexist. Mention Linas`s point re mixing tyres and ask the person who contacts you"how would you feel If you`d spent the money I have and were left feeling cheated?"

Good luck and best wishes.

R.S.C. · November 3, 2020

Nobody contacted me so I called them today. Apparently Lexus Sidcup are happy with fitting Budget FullRun FrunTwo Tyres and don't see the issue or concerns -despite spelling it out.

They offered to replace the only two decent tyres (although both different models) on the car with the same FullRun for a full set! They then offered to replace all 4 tyres for a fee of £300 to cover the difference in cost of budget v premium....

Linas.P · November 3, 2020

On 10/29/2020 at 5:58 PM, johnatg said:

I found this - I rather think that an accountant-driven customer service department is going to think 'why not?'

https://tirereviewsandmore.com/fullrun-tire-reviews/

They should have gone for : https://tirereviewsandmore.com/lexani-tire-reviews/

Nobody would even notice 😁

23 minutes ago, R.S.C. said:

Nobody contacted me so I called them today. Apparently Lexus Sidcup are happy with fitting Budget FullRun FrunTwo Tyres and don't see the issue or concerns -despite spelling it out.

They offered to replace the only two decent tyres (although both different models) on the car with the same FullRun for a full set! They then offered to replace all 4 tyres for a fee of £300 to cover the difference in cost of budget v premium....

Well, that is still progress. Can they breakdown the cost of £300 e.g. what tyres they are planning to fit and what is the discount applied? For example if they say they they will fit Michelin Pilot Sport 4s (which costs ~£140-180 each) then I would say that is "fair offer". If however they are thinking Bridgestone Potenza S001s (which are like £86-89) then "no thank you"!

Either way, stick to your guns, have it in writing - your statutory rights period is still not finished and even after that it counts as log as you raised the issued with them straight away. Make it clear you not just "wondering", but actually want your communication to be be treated as complaint. Then do your research and set-out expectation e.g. they say "yes we will fit Bridgestone Potenza S001s" - fine... you can comeback saying "I have checked and they cost £344 to fit anyway, so I cannot see what is your contribution to solving this issue, however I accept contributing fair sum of £XXX (say £170) towards replacement".

Finally, remember nuclear option - you can literally return the car, they would agree to anything else but that. Use it wisely thought, because you can only use it once. Very good advise from @royoftherovers above - "how would you feel If you`d spent the money I have and were left feeling cheated?" if you as well combine it with "I am really reluctant, but if you continue to ignore this issue I may need to return the car, because X ( e.g. you lost trust in their service)". Ouch!

johnatg · November 3, 2020

Re FullRun tyres - found this thread:

https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/fullrun-tyres-a-word-of-warning.76202/

OK - quite a different car but still interesting (terrifying)

Incidentally, I'm horrified that a lot of the people there seem to think you should have the best grip tyres on the front. No, no, no - the best grip tyres should always be on the back, regardless of which wheels are driven.

Sent from my PSP7551DUO using Tapatalk

royoftherovers · November 3, 2020

1 hour ago, R.S.C. said:

Nobody contacted me so I called them today. Apparently Lexus Sidcup are happy with fitting Budget FullRun FrunTwo Tyres and don't see the issue or concerns -despite spelling it out.

They offered to replace the only two decent tyres (although both different models) on the car with the same FullRun for a full set! They then offered to replace all 4 tyres for a fee of £300 to cover the difference in cost of budget v premium....

Follow the spirit of Linas`s reply.

4 CROSS CLIMATES or equivalent in my view would be acceptable and let them retain the ones currently on your vehicle.

Avoid discussing with a Sales person unless they can demonstrate that they have authority to agree a deal with you..

Point out that they have caused you a great deal of angst which if you put a value on it would be considerable.Make them feel guilty.

Good luck.

R.S.C. · November 3, 2020

Forgot to mention in my post earlier.... their alternative to budget or premium upgrade was to return the vehicle....

They specified Bridgestone Potenza’s.
offered also Continental or Yokohama but didn’t say which specifically.

all of the above is confirmed in writing.

I have to say I’m still surprised and a little disappointed by the standard that is being applied for these cars and customer service.

royoftherovers · November 3, 2020

18 minutes ago, R.S.C. said:

Forgot to mention in my post earlier.... their alternative to budget or premium upgrade was to return the vehicle....

They specified Bridgestone Potenza’s.
offered also continental or Yokohama but didn’t say which specifically.

all of the above is confirmed in writing.

I have to say I’m still surprised and a little disappointed by the standard that is being applied for these cars and customer service.

If you have no confidence in the Dealer, now or for the future, then walk away.

Do not do so if you can reach an acceptable compromise and believe that going forward the relationship will work.

Linas.P · November 3, 2020

Ok, I see - so they didn't even wait for you to use the "nuclear" option. I guess there wasn't much money to make on the sale if they so happy to take it back.

My final advise would be "to make them feel guilty", just say - that you feel cheated as these cheap tyres are same like "generic/fake parts" and are below expectations for the premium car from official dealership. As well if their offer is Potenzas, then maybe you could at least negotiate the price down say £150 or £200 instead of £300. Because £300 is literally the price they cost - no discount, you can go anywhere and just fit the tyres for the same price anyway, so I don't see what is their offer here.

R.S.C. · November 3, 2020

I think the cost saving is about £200 (Bridgestone RE050).

I don’t have confidence in Lexus Sidcup. The car is great. I am disappointed by this purchase experience though. I thought I would write again to Lexus UK and may also share the discussion from this forum too - I expected a higher standard from a Lexus Dealership (unreasonable?).

They dont offer the Michelin’s; I assume this is the same for the whole Jemca franchise.

Linas.P · November 3, 2020

8 minutes ago, R.S.C. said:

I think the cost saving is about £200 (Bridgestone RE050).

Yes, I underestimated the cost of Brigestones on 19" wheels, especially wider rears. RE050 isn't bad tyre either, but just very sporty summery tyre, not great on fuel economy, not great in winter either.

That said maybe £300 represent reasonable discount. This is something you will have to decide.

10 minutes ago, R.S.C. said:

I expected a higher standard from a Lexus Dealership (unreasonable?).

Absolutely reasonable - as I said some OE tyres are not great, but they represent minimum standards i.e. entry level Dunlop, Brigestone tyres. I don't like them, but I understand how dealership could justify fitting them "if they good enough to be fitted on brand new cars from factory, then they good enough to stock and provide on used cars".

Having 3 different tyres on the car and some dodgy no-name brand which is outright dangerous is not level of service one would expect from Lexus, or any any official brand dealership. I mean Ford fits Michelin Pilot Spot 4 (not s) on Fiesta, how on earth it is acceptable to have no-name on Lexus?!

As I said, sadly you were in very disadvantaged situation, basically getting the car without properly checking it (I know you explained the circumstances, so I don't blame you).

I guess the lesson here - never agree the car sale without inspecting it carefully. Even if it official franchise, never let your guard down.. I nearly got in trouble with my brakes as well - luckily I had e-mail trail discussing them.

I would definitely, write to Lexus UK just to summarise your experience - I would be hugely disappointed to find such tyres on the car. I would literally say - are you for real guys?!