IS/CT/RC Discontinued in UK (and Europe?)

[dutchie01]

Hey Linas, Ganzoom!

Savagegeese has a new video out on the tesla model3. This time about the top end performance model and the autopilot.

Any Thoughts?  

[royoftherovers]

Just watched it Bernard.Seems to offer a balance view.

It seems to me that given the Quantum leaps performance wise EV`s and European roads are incompatible as are EV`S and current European driving skills.

 

One way forward might be for all EV`S to be severely restricted performance wise, so that they are similar to current ICE specifications. This would lead to better harmonisation of EV`s and current roads/driving skills, thus producing longer Battery life and a dramatic improvement in pollution levels.

Thanks for the notification.

[Linas.P]

Roy, when you say European, maybe you actually mean British. If yes - then I agree with you, British roads and driving skills are certainly no good for 2.9s 0-60 cars. I am not saying Brits are alone in Europe, but Germany is stark contracts in terms of both the roads and driving skills. Besides amuricans drivers are not better than British and I would argue overall culture is much worse there, than anywhere in Europe.

That said I agree to some degree what you said about restricting EVs and I have partially touched on this previously. Tesla by design is just overkill for most of European cities in many ways. We don't generally commute in cars for 80-100 miles from suburban sprawl in the city on 8 lane motorways, we don't have parkings and other infrastructure dedicated to cars, but we have developed public transport etc. And for people living outside of the city or doing longer miles they are not good either. Simply said we just don't have use case for long range and fast EVs like Tesla here. The whole concept of the car is very much designed to cater for amurican middle class. 

Obviously, we both looking into it from different perspectives, but I feel we both going into the same direction. Considering differences between US and Europe - Tesla is overkill where it does not matter and it is compromised in areas which do.

[royoftherovers]

4 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Roy, when you say European, maybe you actually mean British. If yes - then I agree with you, British roads and driving skills are certainly no good for 2.9s 0-60 cars. I am not saying Brits are alone in Europe, but Germany is stark contracts in terms of both the roads and driving skills. Besides amuricans drivers are not better than British and I would argue overall culture is much worse there, than anywhere in Europe.

That said I agree to some degree what you said about restricting EVs and I have partially touched on this previously. Tesla by design is just overkill for most of European cities in many ways. We don't generally commute in cars for 80-100 miles from suburban sprawl in the city on 8 lane motorways, we don't have parkings and other infrastructure dedicated to cars, but we have developed public transport etc. And for people living outside of the city or doing longer miles they are not good either. Simply said we just don't have use case for long range and fast EVs like Tesla here. The whole concept of the car is very much designed to cater for amurican middle class. 

Obviously, we both looking into it from different perspectives, but I feel we both going into the same direction. Considering differences between US and Europe - Tesla is overkill where it does not matter and it is compromised in areas which do.

Linas, old Buddy, for the purposes of Brevity, I agree with you !

[Linas.P]

Besides, I have seen the video and I think it is great! There are so many spot on claims:

• 6 years ahead in technology, 6 years behind in quality and car building standard - that is spot on. 
• If you are tech person and don't understand much about the cars, you may not notice the terrible built quality, but if you car person and you coming from any entry exec car it will bother you - exactly.
• Has power of super car, but handles like mid range car - yes my experience in Model S.
• That they build like disposable gadgets 
• That it is unfair and stupid they charge 10k for you to do their job and help them build their system - I said the same, I would expect to be paid for baby-siting it. 
• etc. 

I really cannot disagree with anything in the video.

[dutchie01]

I find the lightspeed development of EVs highly fascinating. It is big, very big and it seems just the beginning. Already you see 0- 60 levelling out around 7 seconds ( ID3/4) Kia/Hyundai etc and the range seems to increase with every new model coming out. Such a terrible shame Lexus has nothing on offer at the moment. A Lexus EV that will blow your socks off would be  a wonderful thing. Top notch buildquality with the Lexus image, what could go wrong?

I also expect a great industry in dealing with batterypacks.  Not sure after how many years ( maybe 8?) the batterypack would need replacement but i am convinced those will be available at realistic prices?

[Linas.P]

Lexus has UX300e, which is not bad as a second car in household, the one which is used occasionally and only for nearby shopping trips, school runs and similar use, but it is not suitable for main and only car.

I think part of the reason why Lexus do no focus much on EVs at the moment (and I am sort of just giving excuses for them here) - as said in video Tesla has to cut a lot of corners to make Model 3 a £38k car. If Lexus builds EV car with quality of say IS, then the entry level will be £60k at least and it will be hard sell. Secondly, no matter the hype there is still no infrastructure for EVs and most people simply cannot have one, I know there is much debate about it,  but just very roughly I would estimate 75% of drivers who could afford EV have no means of charging one. I think for same reason Lexus stuck with their "self-charging" hybrids and never introduced PHEVs. If not for UK tax initiatives destroying Lexus hybrids, they are more efficient in practice than PHEVs, especially if you go past the 20 or so miles range. Finally, Lexus generally caters for more conservative and older buyers - the ones who would have an issue with technology and Tesla quality... so they are not really impacted as much by EVs.

What is more surprising is that Toyota is not leading the way, they pushed on hydrogen cell, which ended up failing (despite being better technology) and perhaps this put them behind. I am sure Toyota will be in the game much sooner and Lexus simply going to take tested and trusted EV technology when times comes for it. 

[dutchie01]

Incredible but true. Mercedes Benz Yesterday announced an investment of 70 billion (!) for EV development in the next 5 years.

This is now a game for the big boys

[paulrnx]

1 hour ago, dutchie01 said:

Incredible but true. Mercedes Benz Yesterday announced an investment of 70 billion (!) for EV development in the next 5 years.

This is now a game for the big boys

Big numbers those! I’ve always said that Tesla will be in trouble when real car manufacturers hop onto the EV bandwagon. They’ll just execute so much better than Tesla.

[royoftherovers]

3 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

Big numbers those! I’ve always said that Tesla will be in trouble when real car manufacturers hop onto the EV bandwagon. They’ll just execute so much better than Tesla.

I`ve been waiting for months for Musk to sell his stake in Tesla. He has a good deal of development expertise that would attract competitors.

[ganzoom]

5 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

Hey Linas, Ganzoom!

Savagegeese has a new video out on the tesla model3. This time about the top end performance model and the autopilot.

Any Thoughts?  

 

Aside from what software changes are coming to our Tesla I actually very little interest in new cars. Our IS300H is now coming up to 6 years old and my wife has little interest in replacing it, our Tesla will be kept for pretty much forever. 

I spent over 1hr on this today, despite the sleet/rain/wind loved it 🙂 

[paulrnx]

2 minutes ago, ganzoom said:

 

Aside from what software changes are coming to our Tesla I actually very little interest in new cars. Our IS300H is now coming up to 6 years old and my wife has little interest in replacing it, our Tesla will be kept for pretty much forever. 

I spent over 1hr on this today, despite the sleet/rain/wind loved it 🙂 

Your Tesla won’t last forever though 😀

[royoftherovers]

1 minute ago, paulrnx said:

Your Tesla won’t last forever though 😀

Paul, he means as in  "sealed for life"

[paulrnx]

Define life for me? 😀

[dutchie01]

12 minutes ago, ganzoom said:

 

I spent over 1hr on this today, despite the sleet/rain/wind loved it 🙂 

Thats a pretty impressive bike Gang

[royoftherovers]

2 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

Define life for me? 😀

You have NOT been reading enough of this forum young man!

Sealed for life to the motorist means sealed for life.For the manufacturer it means for the life time (production run) of the model, usually has been 6/7 years.

[paulrnx]

Doesn’t Tesla just upload you a brand new car after 7 years whilst you are asleep and without you knowing or even asking for it?

[ganzoom]

12 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

Your Tesla won’t last forever though 😀

I've done less than 300 miles in 6 weeks in the Tesla, our IS has seen about 200 miles. 

I've covered about 250 miles on the pedal bike commuting in the time period. 

I recon we could easily drop down to a 1 car family, the IS would be the one to go if forced, but the Tesla is the one which would release most capital if sold (£50kish).

But luckily both cost hardly nothing to maintain/run - especially with the low mileage, so we'll just be keeping both.

 

[ganzoom]

11 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

Thats a pretty impressive bike Gang

This is my 'summer' bike, its 10 years old next year, still on original 105 shifters/chain ring. I just replaced the brakes recently for £70, compared to cars pedals are simply so much more sustainable and fun. 

 

I have a big birthday coming up in a few years time, I have my eye on something like this.....The problem is because pedal bikes age so well, a £8K+ 'super bike' will be hardly any quicker than what I have now, so it's very hard to justify getting a brand new bike. 

[paulrnx]

3 minutes ago, ganzoom said:

I've done less than 300 miles in 6 weeks in the Tesla, our IS has seen about 200 miles. 

I've covered about 250 miles on the pedal bike commuting in the time period. 

I recon we could easily drop down to a 1 car family, the IS would be the one to go if forced, but the Tesla is the one which would release most capital if sold (£50kish).

But luckily both cost hardly nothing to maintain/run - especially with the low mileage, so we'll just be keeping both.

 

Insurance. Road tax. Depreciation. Servicing. Consumables. Fuel / charging. Must be a bit more than hardly nothing I would think surely?

[paulrnx]

2 minutes ago, ganzoom said:

This is my 'summer' bike, its 10 years old next year, still on original 105 shifters/chain ring. I just replaced the brakes recently for £70, compared to cars pedals are simply so much more sustainable and fun. 

 

I have a big birthday coming up in a few years time, I have my eye on something like this.....The problem is because pedal bikes age so well, a £8K+ 'super bike' will be hardly any quicker than what I have now, so it's very hard to justify getting a brand new bike. 

Nice bike that first one.

[ganzoom]

1 hour ago, paulrnx said:

Insurance. Road tax. Depreciation. Servicing. Consumables. Fuel / charging. Must be a bit more than hardly nothing I would think surely?

You are quite right, but the car are fully owned so no finance costs, £20 and £0 VED, insurance is under £900/year for both, servicing is £0 on the Tesla and £250 on the IS, MOT £70 for both, fuel costs 10p/mile on the IS and 2.5p/mile on the Tesla, tyres are 1.5p/mile for the Tesla and 1p/mile on the Lexus.

So all in to do 10k between 2 cars its £2k/year up keep. Not 'free' but nothing to loss sleep over, however still £5/mile.....An autonomous taxi service at £1/mile would be 1/5 the cost ;).

 

[ganzoom]

 

1 hour ago, paulrnx said:

Nice bike that first one.

I do have a soft spot for Treks after doing the LEJOG on an effective early 2000 period USP replica Madone. 

Fantastic things pedal bikes 🥰.

[ganzoom]

7 hours ago, ganzoom said:

.So all in to do 10k between 2 cars its £2k/year up keep. Not 'free' but nothing to loss sleep over, however still £5/mile.

Just realised I did the maths total wrong!

20p per mile, which is much better, so very little reason to sell or change cars :).

[Thackeray]

11 hours ago, ganzoom said:

You are quite right, but the car are fully owned so no finance costs,

If a Tesla costs, say, £60,000 and it depreciates 45% in the first three years, that's about £9,000 per year. Somebody must be paying for this and I suspect it's the owner.