IS/CT/RC Discontinued in UK (and Europe?)

[Spacewagon52]

On 11/14/2020 at 4:28 PM, royoftherovers said:

I agree that software is improving and continue to be impressed.

I have not heard anything about  Tesla being sued as I don`t go looking for articles they seem to come to me. The one I posted above was in today`s paper and I would have posted it even had it said that the sun shines out of Tesla`s exhaust pipes Gang.

I watched part of this video and I do not think I could sit behind the wheel of a car that drives itself ...... I was genuinely nervous!

[royoftherovers]

15 minutes ago, Spacewagon52 said:

I watched part of this video and I do not think I could sit behind the wheel of a car that drives itself ...... I was genuinely nervous!

I sent the video to a pal who lives in Nottingham and has experience of living in the States and he made the same remark as you Davey.

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, Spacewagon52 said:

I watched part of this video and I do not think I could sit behind the wheel of a car that drives itself ...... I was genuinely nervous!

Quite opposite, I would fall a sleep as it is soooo boring... yet my dream would be the nightmare! Basically, you have to sit with your hands on the wheel, but do nothing like some sort of paperweight/slave! Just try it at your desk - turn the video of car driving on the road form drivers perspective, no sound no commentary and preferably not a rally stage, put one hand on the mouse, another on your keyboard and do nothing for 30 minutes, just sit there and watch. I am certain it will be the most boring 30 minutes of your life _{(p.s. don't do it, but you can imagine what I mean)}

Not sure if anyone have same issues, but driving aids makes me to lose focus from the road, bored and sleepy which is the last things you want on the road, I have few friends who are the same, one cannot even use cruise control. The worst places for me are 50MPH average speed limited roadworks, you set cruise control and just sit there basically doing nothing. Few times I nearly had accidents like that and statistically most pile-ups happens exactly in such circumstances. 

I always argued that I am much safer driver when speeding and focusing, rather than driving slowly and not focusing. And I am not promoting speeding, I am just saying that focusing on the road in front of you is most important, distracted driver is always most dangerous one.

[shafque]

I really hope that Lexus change there minds and brings the new generation (MK4) IS300 if not to Europe then to England!

[royoftherovers]

1 minute ago, shafque said:

I really hope that Lexus change there minds and brings the new generation (MK4) IS300 if not to Europe then to England!

Not a  snowball`s chance in hell, my friend.

[shafque]

I know it would affect sales of the current ES but whose stupid decision was that? 😨 I was looking forward to that. Audi, BMW and Merc still have current generations of there compact saloons. That was a stupid decision anyway!

[shafque]

13 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Not a  snowball`s chance in hell, my friend.

Hello there Roy, dont know if I shoudl write this here but is there an app i can use to access this website and forum?

[dutchie01]

2 hours ago, Mincey said:

.

“When I first got the car, I noticed it had heated rear seats, but after three months they disappeared. Now, if I want to pay for an upgrade, I can put them back. I have not done so — much to my kids’ disappointment — because Tesla want £300,” said Shapps, 52.

Blackmail?? Theft??

heres another one. at night i steal your left frontwheel and in the morning i knock on your door morning you can have it back for 300?

would you go tothe police?

[Linas.P]

Yes I find Tesla, software enabled features highly dubious, lacking transparency and suspicious.. sometimes outright anti-consumer and illegal.

If Tesla fitted seat heating on your rear seats, then the cost was transferred to you when you purchased the car, there is no way Tesla fitted the heaters for free anyway and just let you pay for enabling them. This may work like that in software world, but it does not in hardware. Point is - if hardware is fitted to your car then you have already paid for it. That is fact!

So if they disabled your heated seats unless you pay for using them, this is extortion, it should be illegal! What next paying monthly subscription for using built in autopilot.... ohhh wait that is already the case.. 😁

I do understand the concept, but it could work only one way... you could have hardware feature which is disabled due to software not being ready yet, because Tesla as a whole is beta project. With future updates they can enable it and that is what is often done on software projects (disabled features staying dormant until finished and then getting enabled). However, this should never be applied in opposite way, especially if you have hardware already in place and working.

[dutchie01]

Further to the EV Extravaganza.. Salesfigs EU market first 3 quarters lust in. and guess what?

EU sales for full Electric Vehicles

VAG group  87k

renault/nissan/mitsubishi   83k

tesla 63k

marketshare tesla went from 34% to 13%

Sales the netherlands last month VW ID3 2789..Tesla model 3 - 33. Model X and S neglectable.   

[shafque]

5 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

Further to the EV Extravaganza.. Salesfigs EU market first 3 quarters lust in. and guess what?

EU sales for full Electric Vehicles

VAG group  87k

renault/nissan/mitsubishi   83k

tesla 63k

marketshare tesla went from 34% to 13%

Sales the netherlands last month VW ID3 2789..Tesla model 3 - 33. Model X and S neglectable.   

Thats some good news. I hate the Tesla Brand. Cant wait for next year to check out the new UX300e

[Linas.P]

12 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

Tesla model 3 - 33. Model X and S neglectable.   

I feel like even 33 is neglectable as well... but so is Lexus sales in UK 😁

The stats overall makes total sense, not repeating myself too much, but if you remember I mentioned that Tesla is largely designed for Amurican urban/sub-urban commute where public transport is not developed, it does makes sense there, but it makes much less sense in European cities which are more tightly packed and better connected.

As such in EU cars like ID or Honda-e, or simple Leaf makes more sense than Tesla. Yes they don't have Tesla range, but they are not being used to travel far. The EV purpose in EU is to be second car and sort of glorified shopping trolley, not the primary car to commute from and to work. In most cities you can't even commute to work by car at all and people simply use public transport which unlike in US is fairly comprehensive (still stinky thought... at least in UK).

In the end of the day owning Tesla becomes more of a status symbol, like owning latest Iphone or monitor stand for £999. Could you make calls, use whatsapp, facebook, open email and take decent pictures on 350EU/£ smartphone?! Yes absolutely you can... yet people still buying £1000 iPhones, not as a smartphones, but simply as a status symbol. I increasingly think that Tesla is apple of the car world. And people are increasingly paying unjustified premium for Teslas and accept all the issues as if they are not there (fan-boys/girls). 

[royoftherovers]

2 hours ago, shafque said:

Hello there Roy, dont know if I shoudl write this here but is there an app i can use to access this website and forum?

Not that I know of Mo. Others may write in know of one.

I just keep the Forum web address on my favourites/bookmarks.

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

Yes I find Tesla, software enabled features highly dubious, lacking transparency and suspicious.. sometimes outright anti-consumer and illegal.

If Tesla fitted seat heating on your rear seats, then the cost was transferred to you when you purchased the car, there is no way Tesla fitted the heaters for free anyway and just let you pay for enabling them. This may work like that in software world, but it does not in hardware. Point is - if hardware is fitted to your car then you have already paid for it. That is fact!

So if they disabled your heated seats unless you pay for using them, this is extortion, it should be illegal! What next paying monthly subscription for using built in autopilot.... ohhh wait that is already the case.. 😁

I do understand the concept, but it could work only one way... you could have hardware feature which is disabled due to software not being ready yet, because Tesla as a whole is beta project. With future updates they can enable it and that is what is often done on software projects (disabled features staying dormant until finished and then getting enabled). However, this should never be applied in opposite way, especially if you have hardware already in place and working.

Most Tesla drivers will not have bought the cars with their own money.

If they had done so, they would have complained more and been less accepting of the multitude of build and paint quality problems.

[royoftherovers]

49 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

I feel like even 33 is neglectable as well... but so is Lexus sales in UK 😁

The stats overall makes total sense, not repeating myself too much, but if you remember I mentioned that Tesla is largely designed for Amurican urban/sub-urban commute where public transport is not developed, it does makes sense there, but it makes much less sense in European cities which are more tightly packed and better connected.

As such in EU cars like ID or Honda-e, or simple Leaf makes more sense than Tesla. Yes they don't have Tesla range, but they are not being used to travel far. The EV purpose in EU is to be second car and sort of glorified shopping trolley, not the primary car to commute from and to work. In most cities you can't even commute to work by car at all and people simply use public transport which unlike in US is fairly comprehensive (still stinky thought... at least in UK).

In the end of the day owning Tesla becomes more of a status symbol, like owning latest iPhone or monitor stand for £999. Could you make calls, use whatsapp, facebook, open email and take decent pictures on 350EU/£ smartphone?! Yes absolutely you can... yet people still buying £1000 iPhones, not as a smartphones, but simply as a status symbol. I increasingly think that Tesla is Apple of the car world. And people are increasingly paying unjustified premium for Teslas and accept all the issues as if they are not there (fan-boys/girls). 

You both mean "negligible?"

[Linas.P]

26 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

You both mean "negligible?"

I just quoted like for like - actually I quite like "neglectable" as a word to describe Lexus "strategy" in UK i.e. the number of sales which is so small that one would not feel the difference if they simply neglected the market all together.... so they did.

True fanboys can turn a blind eye, even when paying their own money! Look at the fashion brands - people pay thousands for t-shirts which are made in the same sweat-shop as other non-branded ones for £8... and they do not complain, nor have issues with colour which fades with single wash, nor they have issues with seams which rips apart after single use.. as long as it has brand logo on it.

[PaulWhitt20]

Hello there Roy, dont know if I shoudl write this here but is there an app i can use to access this website and forum?

Try Tapatalk.


Thanks
Paul

[paulrnx]

Just think about cars driving themselves and not allowing drivers to take control. Linas would have no choice but to keep to the speed limits! 😂😉

Joking aside I would have serious concerns about owning a Tesla. To the point where I wouldn’t buy one not ever. A Taycan or an iPace definitely but not a Tesla with panel gaps like my first ever car, a 1973 Hillman Hunter.

[paulrnx]

6 hours ago, Linas.P said:

I just quoted like for like - actually I quite like "neglectable" as a word to describe Lexus "strategy" in UK i.e. the number of sales which is so small that one would not feel the difference if they simply neglected the market all together.... so they did.

True fanboys can turn a blind eye, even when paying their own money! Look at the fashion brands - people pay thousands for t-shirts which are made in the same sweat-shop as other non-branded ones for £8... and they do not complain, nor have issues with colour which fades with single wash, nor they have issues with seams which rips apart after single use.. as long as it has brand logo on it.

Neglectable. I like that word! It’s now in my vocabulary 😀

[Linas.P]

31 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

but not a Tesla with panel gaps like my first ever car, a 1973 Hillman Hunter.

And even then if you the lucky one... Tesla panel gaps are not that big, it is much more about how inconsistent they are. What surprises me most is that back in the day carswere assembled by hand and had flimsy bodies fit on ladder chassis. The whole car alignment was a difficult process as it wasn't enough just to fit individual panels, there were certain sequence in which panels have to be aligned for it all to work. Obviously, this process took long time so probably wasn't done well on cheaper cars very well. Not only Hillman Hunter, but to be honest on any stuff British Layland did - going on strike was more popular than aligning panels gaps for sure.

Either way, we are long past ladder chassis design and even flimsiest uni-body cars no longer have such issues, nor the cars are hand built. So panel gaps are simply no longer an issue in modern cars - the only time you see issues is if car was in accident and whole frame is twisted. Robots don't make mistake either, it is not like robot fit's parts inconsistently. As such it is beyond me how Tesla could not get it right...

But I am sure it will be fixed - they will release software patch for alignment soon.. I have heard they doing that on weekly basis now!

[paulrnx]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

And even then if you the lucky one... Tesla panel gaps are not that big, it is much more about how inconsistent they are. What surprises me most is that back in the day carswere assembled by hand and had flimsy bodies fit on ladder chassis. The whole car alignment was a difficult process as it wasn't enough just to fit individual panels, there were certain sequence in which panels have to be aligned for it all to work. Obviously, this process took long time so probably wasn't done well on cheaper cars very well. Not only Hillman Hunter, but to be honest on any stuff British Layland did - going on strike was more popular than aligning panels gaps for sure.

Either way, we are long past ladder chassis design and even flimsiest uni-body cars no longer have such issues, nor the cars are hand built. So panel gaps are simply no longer an issue in modern cars - the only time you see issues is if car was in accident and whole frame is twisted. Robots don't make mistake either, it is not like robot fit's parts inconsistently. As such it is beyond me how Tesla could not get it right...

But I am sure it will be fixed - they will release software patch for alignment soon.. I have heard they doing that on weekly basis now!

They are releasing a patch as we speak now

[Linas.P]

29 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

They are releasing a patch as we speak now

But you may need to pay subscription for it, so don't get carried away - £22.99/month so that your panel gaps stay straight!

[ganzoom]

Ah I see you guys have moved on to panel gaps and cannot understand the concept of paying for software......its almost like some of you guys are about 3 years behind how the real world thinks. Those 'debates' on Tesla have been going on for a while now, but why not write to Bill Gates and ask him why people should pay for software at all, or Adobe why they moved to cloud based subscription model :).

Meanwhile the latest FSD updates means these cars will overtake cyclists by themselves......When was the last time Lexus added a feature to our IS? Was it never or did I miss the update:).

 

 

[ganzoom]

Going around parked cars and cyclists is now clearly part of the code...

://twitter.com/kimpaquette/status/1327701134904070144?s=20

And no driver intervention needed on a long drive.....How long will it take Lexus to deliver these capabilities to our IS, could someone let me know please?

Why would we buy another IS when a Model 3 now ineffect costs the same?? Why would I choose to spend the same ££££ on a car that will never ever have the technology to improve its capabilities after delivery?? 

 

 

[Mincey]

I must admit that I'm a very bad passenger and will go out of my way to drive rather than be driven. Putting my faith in the driving abilities of another human who can at least tell the difference between a softer hedge and a solid wall (see earlier post re James May) and a computer which can't, I'd prefer the human option.