IS/CT/RC Discontinued in UK (and Europe?)

[royoftherovers]

30 minutes ago, ganzoom said:

@royoftherovers Am suprised you haven't come across US owners who sued Tesla for 'mis selling' Autopilot, they won a court case in the US, Tesla refunded each of them $100......In return for the $100 they will never get access to the new Autopilot software that is now coming, great outcome for those owners, that $100 must be really worth all the effort :).

 

 

I agree that software is improving and continue to be impressed.

I have not heard anything about  Tesla being sued as I don`t go looking for articles they seem to come to me. The one I posted above was in today`s paper and I would have posted it even had it said that the sun shines out of Tesla`s exhaust pipes Gang.

[dutchie01]

With all respect for Tesla but its small change really as the German powerhouses have come on steam. VAG announced yesterday they will invest 60 BILLION euros in the next 4 years to develop electric/hybrid cars and digital technologies. They plan to build 75 variants of electric car and 60 hybrid vehicle models. 

Tesla could be the lonely cyclist that escaped the peloton in the cycling race.  Once the peloton comes on steam there is no stopping them.. 

[matt8]

3 hours ago, Mincey said:

It's behind a paywall John - shame as it (and several other stories there!) looked rather interesting. Can you do a copy and paste perhaps... 😉

If you're a desktop user and are happy manually installing Chrome extensions:

https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome

[Martin J]

On 11/13/2020 at 10:54 PM, paulrnx said:

No doubt in my mind that Lexus has remained a niche marque in the UK partly due to the narrow choice of engines in their line-up. Agreed. It might have been different had they done so and we might not now be discussing this thread.

Absolutely - there's a chicken/egg thing about low volumes not making it worth importing more variants, leading to low volumes (and as I've noted in another thread, what a great car an NX450h might have been).

[Mincey]

12 hours ago, matt8 said:

If you're a desktop user and are happy manually installing Chrome extensions:

https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome

That works a treat - many thanks!

[paulrnx]

My previous Jaguar XE automatically applied the brakes in a non-dangerous situation. I was slowing down about to enter a 30mph limit and the road was bending slightly the left with a pedestrian island in the middle of the road. Despite me having both hands in the wheel and being in full control of the car and not going too fast my car applied the brakes and The dash lit like a Christmas tree. Luckily the brakes were only applied for about a second. A few days later exactly the same road and conditions and I had another warning on the dash but brakes were not applied this time. Scary and you lose confidence in the car. Can’t think what that Tesla driver is thinking with his experiences. One of the reasons I now drive a Lexus again to be honest. I think autonomous driving is a pipe dream and it will never be sufficiently safely achievable but it is something that the industry seems hell bent on pursuing. And there are early adopters driving round treating their cars like a beta release of Windows. A blue screen of death is just not the same as death. Not worth it and fairly stupid in my opinion.

[paulrnx]

It is one of the reasons why I’m having a dashcam fitted once lockdown ends to be honest. I’m seeing more and more Teslas on the road where I live and I do wonder how many are not fully driving them.

[Mincey]

Maybe I'm just an old doddering fart, but the first time my IS's crash warning activated, I nearly soiled myself. It was in a situation where I was fully in control - I'd just pulled onto a main road and was slowly weaving between parked cars either side of the road when all hell broke loose with flashing lights and bongs. Perhaps a "this is what it will do in an emergency" mode would be handy so the salesman can demonstrate it before you have a "New pants Umpire" moment on the road....

[royoftherovers]

25 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

It is one of the reasons why I’m having a dashcam fitted once lockdown ends to be honest. I’m seeing more and more Teslas on the road where I live and I do wonder how many are not fully driving them.

Steer clear amigo !

[paulrnx]

7 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Steer clear amigo !

Will do my friend! 😂

[Linas.P]

15 hours ago, Martin J said:

Absolutely - there's a chicken/egg thing about low volumes not making it worth importing more variants, leading to low volumes (and as I've noted in another thread, what a great car an NX450h might have been).

Indeed - Porsche Macan competitor... Those are selling like hot cakes in UK, I was told there was 2 years waiting list when it launched!

Or RC450h for that matter... I am quite confident that was a plan at some point, otherwise what was the point putting GS sub-frame in the front. Likewise they kind of abandoned CT - whereas I am not fan of the engine in RC200t or 300h, I consider that both engines would have made CT quite exciting little car.

What is the most surprising to me is that they have all those engine options already on the shelf and it seems with very little development they can get them into all the models, in some cases they even have them in other markets (like IS/RC350) - so I really do not understand why they don't take advantage of bringing them in...

But hey... what are we talking about here - they went and developed IS mk4 which from all reviews seems like great car and they decided not to import it to entire Europe... how does that make sense?!

[Overland]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

But hey... what are we talking about here - they went and developed IS mk4 which from all reviews seems like great car and they decided not to import it to entire Europe... how does that make sense?!

I think for their marketing and sales people it does.

Reading this topic it seems the people in EU and UK prefer SUV, miniSUV and very soon the microSUV as it seems Lexus would launch some SUV based on Yaris.

Everybody want a Sedan should buy a ES, this is what they stated.

[Linas.P]

2 minutes ago, Overland said:

I think for their marketing and sales people it does.

Reading this topic it seems the people in EU and UK prefer SUV, miniSUV and very soon the microSUV as it seems Lexus would launch some SUV based on Yaris.

Everybody want a Sedan should buy a ES, this is what they stated.

But if that is the case, why bother developing IS mk4 at all? Yes it would make sense if they dropped the model worldwide - no money wasted for developing and certifying new car as sales volumes does not make sense for such expense.

However, they have already spend all the money developing the model and now only artificially limiting themselves by simply not selling it?!

[Overland]

16 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

But if that is the case, why bother developing IS mk4 at all? Yes it would make sense if they dropped the model worldwide - no money wasted for developing and certifying new car as sales volumes does not make sense for such expense.

However, they have already spend all the money developing the model and now only artificially limiting themselves by simply not selling it?!

Yes, I agree of course.

But who know what’s in the mind of them?

Do you remember when they developed the IS220D? Made after the EU managers force Lexus to offer an engine that “surely the Italian, German and East European need and would buy” promising high selling?

An epic failure never seen in the story of Lexus.

While in Japan several times for my work and visit the main Tokyo dealer and the Intersect concept showroom, talkin with managers I learn that they do what their subsidiaries say them.

If from Eu the common opinion of the dealers is that sedans does not sell, and if they include in this weird axiom also sport lineup like the RC, I suspect that some manager in Japan believe them.

The result it seems clear: more SUV, only two sedan in which one is only if you have a “chaffeur” (LS) and nothing in the middle.

Unless you live in the USA or Japan where the range is wide, really well balanced and with several options.

 

 

[Linas.P]

7 minutes ago, Overland said:

Do you remember when they developed the IS220D? Made after the EU managers force Lexus to offer an engine that “surely the Italian, German and East European need and would buy” promising high selling?

An epic failure never seen in the story of Lexus.

The IS220d actually sold quite well, the problem was that engine was notoriously unreliable... and that is an issue for the brand which recognition is build primarily on reliability and build quality. At the same time Germans were at the top of their game with diesels, making them more reliable, more powerful and more fuel efficient.

Second issue was that it was offered only with manual gearbox which had rather weird ratios... perhaps ok in other European countries, but in UK one would have to drive in 5th gear in motorway.

On top of that, they again brought only single model with 2.2l engine to compete against 1.8, 2.0, 2.2, 2.5 and 3L competitors. If they had like 1.8, 2.2 and 3.0L diesels with both manual and automatic transmissions I am sure the model would have been much more competitive.

So Lexus diesel offering never had a chance in the first place. 

Potentially you are right - European subsidiary management may be hyper retarded and Japanese just gives them too much of the control locally. Instead of focusing on promoting Lexus brand in Europe as long term leader, they simply focus on profit here and now, but making brand less relevant with each year.

[Overland]

11 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

.Instead of focusing on promoting Lexus brand in Europe as long term leader, they simply focus on profit here and now, but making brand less relevant with each year.

That’s it

[paulrnx]

I wonder if they’ll reverse their decision in the future?

[dutchie01]

little chance. we have to remember that Lexus is operated as a global brand alike toyota. The USA and China are the main areas but Japan, wider Asia and the middle east also play their role. European sales are good for 11% ot the total volume and the UK? Less than 2 %. Also, There is no 1 Europe. For a non European manufacturer it will be complicated to be successful as most markets have home production and national preferences. Think Germany, France, Italy. So any decision about range/models/engines is made with Global interest only. ( here you also have why Lexus is not in a hurry with EV)  On top of that customers just dont want saloons anymore and everybody wants a crossover/suv. As Lexus always need a solid businessmodel that is what they will develop and build. At the moment 70% of all is Crossover/Suv. Regarding the new IS it is a heavily reworked IS not a new model. I guess they will let this model roll out until sales dry up and thats it. I personally think this is the best IS ever and if it would come to this side of the ocean i certainly would go for it. But... The outgoing IS was no success and the "new"model is too old under the skin to be competible with the 3 series etc.  

[Overland]

This is a rough translation of a recent article from a newspaper in Italy.

Bold are mine.

“SUVs and Crossover: hope for a car world in crisis again

Il Domani / by Redazione / 16d

It rains in the wet.

The three-month forced lockdown, in virtually every corner of the world, has dealt yet another blow - albeit not fatal - to the auto industry.

A car sector that was already experiencing moments of great crisis. To get out of it? Simple, brands continue to focus on the segment that has kept them afloat - and in some cases thrived - in recent years. That is Suv and Crossover.

For 2021, all major brands will be out with new models and new trim levels.To try to move a market where in all likelihood not even the substantial bonuses allocated by the bulk of European governments will be able to bring sales back to what they were, now many years ago.

Reduction in spending? No problem, Crossover today are within everyone's reach

Of course, the crux of spending remains, especially in a Europe where the crisis has hit hard and which will in all likelihood leave the middle class with less access to finance and savings.This demand for cars in the segment, without however spending a fortune, will most likely be answered by the Crossover, which today are also included in the price list with settings definitely within everyone's reach.

Driving a car of this type - it should be clear to everyone - is no longer an exclusive for a few.

Will SUVs suffer the most? In all likelihood, yes, even if even in that segment something is moving downwards.

Safety and comfort in the first place

There is something that, even in times of crisis, motorists do not seem ready to give up.They are safety and comfort, characteristics of a car inherent in functionality.

Safety and comfort to which SUVs and crossovers have become accustomed to motorists all over the world.

And even in a moment of crisis as they have not seen for some time, motorists will not be ready to give it up.

Driving an SUV or a good Crossover, of those that are marketed by the best brands, completely changes the perspectives of those who are driving.

And once the outlook is changed, going back to an old sedan just seems impossible.

SUV and Crossover: ready to play the charge again

The pessimists point to the saturation of the car world and above all to the growing inconvenience of this vehicle, at least in big cities.

SUV and Crossover, however, have shown that it is not the desire for cars that has disappeared, but the desire for a certain type of car.

SUV and Crossover have gone, in previous years, against any kind of forecast, up or down, showing that there is still the heart of innovation beating fast in the main European car brands.Whether they are able to save the sector once again - and in such open crisis conditions - we will only find out by living.

The fact is that if you glimpse a light, albeit dim, at the end of the tunnel, the credit must absolutely be ascribed to SUVs and Crossover.

Investing in cars even in times of crisis

Our advice for motorists is to make a little effort and continue to prefer brands and segments that can actually give adequate performance, especially in terms of safety and driving comfort.

We travel tens of thousands of kilometers by car, exposed to important risks both on urban and extra-urban roads.

Saving on safety and quality of the vehicle that accompanies us does not seem to be a good idea, even during a difficult moment of crisis like this.”

[Mincey]

It's disappointing that the new IS isn't coming here. When the original IS was announced in 1999, I was already trying to decide between an Impreza or an Accord Type R. I saw the IS, test drove one and have sat in very little other than IS's in the following 21 years. I'm not sure I'm ready for an SUV and the day I find myself looking at a BMW/Mercedes/Audi logo on a steering wheel will be the day I phone the men in the white coats to come and take me away.

[Spacewagon52]

I drive in both camps - saloon and SUV. The two BIG advantages of an SUV is the high driving position and the practicality for moving various loads when you have a family. For a retired couple a saloon makes sense. If you have a largish dog then an SUV type vehicle is essential. No way would I let my Labrador get into the back of my LS 400 even if the back seats were covered in hard plastic!

Choice of cars for, lets call us, "car enthusiasts" is much more than just practicality. Style, comfort, power, design all play a part in our car choices. Peeps on this site are very discerning customers. However, practicality has to come into the mix for everyone - including the run to the local refuse re-cycling centre. My father always bought cars with a large boot - very few SUV's to speak of in the 1960's - because we had camping holidays. He did not like estate cars because he felt they were too noisy and you had to cover anything valuable in the back - I don't remember retractable covers for estate cars back then?

The bottom line is that our choices are personal but also to some extent a compromise, especially on cost. 

The answer is a large practical car that gives excellent mpg, has a large gutsy engine, comfortable ride, and lots of toys for people who want them.............. what fits that bill?

 

 

RX 450h ?

[Mincey]

Just saw this on the Honest John forum:

From an article this morning in The Times detailing that James May and Grant Shapps, both Tesla owners, experienced unannounced software updates and their effects.

"For May, it was as if there was a ghost in the machine when his car — a Tesla Model S — was tugged towards the middle of a narrow road as he hugged the verge to avoid oncoming traffic.

It was a feature that May, 57, did not know that his car had acquired until the drama on a Wiltshire country lane.

“A message came up saying, ‘Corrective steering applied for your safety’,” said May. “I thought: it’s actually not for my safety, because there’s a b***** great tractor coming the other way.”

(Read the handbook James?)

"Shapps, who is overseeing the government’s roll-out policy on automated cars, was also caught unawares by over-the-air changes made by Tesla to the £44,000 Model 3 that he bought last year. When the heating in the rear seats went cold, he assumed there was a malfunction until he learnt that it had been turned off.

“When I first got the car, I noticed it had heated rear seats, but after three months they disappeared. Now, if I want to pay for an upgrade, I can put them back. I have not done so — much to my kids’ disappointment — because Tesla want £300,” said Shapps, 52.

[Mincey]

Oh and this is quite interesting too: https://electrek.co/2020/08/27/tesla-hack-control-over-entire-fleet/

[royoftherovers]

25 minutes ago, Mincey said:

Oh and this is quite interesting too: https://electrek.co/2020/08/27/tesla-hack-control-over-entire-fleet/

I read the first one too James and just shrugged my shoulders Those of us that have been around a bit have no need to be messianic about these things. Let`s just sit back and see what transpires.

I should imagine that Ralph Nader "unsafe at any speed" is turning in his grave.

[Spacewagon52]

I am afraid if that happened to me the car would be going! 

No thank you Mr Musk! I will continue to drive my dinosaur!