IS/CT/RC Discontinued in UK (and Europe?)

[dutchie01]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

Yes... sorry that is not future for me. I don't think that I don't like cycling - I love cycling, I grew up cycling, I even did that competitively (thought I was 12 years old) and I did cycle to work when I was 15-16. And this exactly describes my view very well - the only reason why would anyone use bicycle for commuting is if they are kids and cannot have driving license, are too poor to own a car or you doing it for leisure. I still cycle for leisure and I love it, but commuting on bicycle is (in my opinion) retarded, it is backwards, it is not progress and certainly it not future. It is actually more outdated than riding a horse (which I love to do for leisure as well), because when you ride an animal of any sort that is already a progress as you using somebody else muscle strength to move you along, preferably somebody on 4 legs as they are better suited for long distances. Using your own muscles to travel that is stone age level retarded, we are better than that. 

What is next? no food unless it is grass? 

Not sure about the UK but overhere in Holland 52% of employees live within 15km from work. From this group 38% use a bike as daily commute. These are 2018 figures and this year these will have gone up massively as due to Covid people do not want to use public transport. Calling these people retarded and backwards is not thatc clever one could say. As a matter of fact i do think it is future and progress. Talking about progress, ever seen an electric bike these things will cost up to 5500 Euros! Maybe futire could be driving an Ev bike for short distance, and EV cars for the rest? And horses? well seen that been there, didnt really work did it, nice for a hobby but forget the rest. 

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, dutchie01 said:

Not sure about the UK but overhere in Holland 52% of employees live within 15km from work. From this group 38% use a bike as daily commute. These are 2018 figures and this year these will have gone up massively as due to Covid people do not want to use public transport. Calling these people retarded and backwards is not thatc clever one could say. As a matter of fact i do think it is future and progress. Talking about progress, ever seen an electric bike these things will cost up to 5500 Euros! Maybe futire could be driving an Ev bike for short distance, and EV cars for the rest? And horses? well seen that been there, didnt really work did it, nice for a hobby but forget the rest. 

I guess overall - fair enough. We don't need to agree on it... but it seems that in general we do agree. So really we just don't agree on details... just to be clear, I didn't say that people who are cycling are retarded, what I said is that considering cycling as primary method of transportation and future of transportation is retarded.

I will start in reverse order... So you say horses are "nice for a hobby but forget the rest" - that is exactly how I see bicycles. I cannot see any reason why a person who can otherwise drive a car would voluntarily choose to cycle instead. It just absolutely makes no sense for me. Now you see where I coming from? For me car is just absolutely, in any way, shape or form superior way of transportation unless situation is exceptional. And I had such exceptional circumstances in my life - when at school I had car and in winter I would drive to school, but school was 2 km away, so as soon as weather was acceptable ~March to October I was cycling to school. For 2 km travel on pedestrian paths and gardens the bicycle was better option indeed, but that was exceptional and not norm.

Electric bike costing 5500 euros is as well ridiculous, overall bicycle prices are ridiculous. And here I agree with you. 5500 euros is not even the most expensive one - how comes some bicycles costs £10,000 and £20,000 ?! it is just cannot be explained and stupid. You can buy best superbike, brand new BMW S1000RR costs £15,000, so how comes bicycle costs £20,000? I would say that any bicycle costing over £1000-£2000 is absolute madness - what is so expensive there?!

Now in terms of stats you have mentioned I am sure they are correct. However, there are several differences in UK -  Holland is basically flat, UK isn't. Holland has cycling infrastructure, UK doesn't.. all the infrastructure we have is unsuitable, it is nothing else but empty words and politics. Bicycle lanes are just painted on the street and conflicts with traffic making it extremely dangerous to both drive and cycle, roads surface is terrible even when you driving, but it is outright dangerous on bicycle. Further we on average live far further from work than you do in Holland. I don't know what the average is, but I live 28km from work and that is considered "close", many people travel from different cities. The whole thing is highly toxic, because government deliberately creates conflict between motorists and cyclists, if you see how cycling infrastructure is made here it is obvious that conflicts will happen. Why it is like that then? Because, it is convenient for government - whilst two parties fights, one is always at fault and other literally dies, the politicians can continue to ignore the needs of both.

Here are some stats: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/877039/commuting-in-england-1988-2015.pdf

Other example, no so long ago I was in China and I remember saying that, if we would have infrastructure like in China I would even consider cycling, they have proper separation, dedicated cycling roads and that makes sense. In UK we don't and the only way to cycle in UK is to put yourself in danger and your health at risk. For my leisure I often cycle more than 28km needed to work, often between 30-50km. But there is huge difference between enjoying yourself on nice forest path in the nature or on the beach and fighting for every inch with buses and truck on dirty and polluted streets. And that is why I do not consider "commuting on a bike" to be a norm.

Finally, it depends what work are you doing... if I am expected to wear suit and tie at work, then sorry cycling is not an option for me (nor public transport in my opinion). The only thing I accept as suitable is going to underground parking, getting into clean air-conditioned car, driving directly to another underground car park and getting into the lift. No exposure to elements, stinking or sick people and no sweating. Sure if I am some sort of street artist maybe cycling and ripped jeans goes together very well 😁 

[ganzoom]

4 hours ago, Linas.P said:

 commuting on bicycle is (in my opinion) retarded, it is backwards, it is not progress and certainly it not future. 

Whoo, what can I say, with logic like that there is actually nothing to say.

 

 

[Linas.P]

5 minutes ago, ganzoom said:

Whoo, what can I say, with logic like that there is actually nothing to say.

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

... just to be clear, I didn't say that people who are cycling are retarded, what I said is that considering cycling as primary method of transportation and future of transportation is retarded.

You welcome!

[doog442]

 

1 hour ago, ganzoom said:

Whoo, what can I say, with logic like that there is actually nothing to say.

 

 

Its like going back to the dark ages isn't it ? The future is public transport  and cycling (taking EV's out of the equation for the minute) Both have the lowest carbon footprint. I commuted for years by bicycle (and often wore a suit at the other end). We will never catch up with the Netherlands but can follow Germany, Belgium and Denmark for example who have made massive inroads. I've cycled extensively throughout Europe and the cycling commuting culture is huge and perfectly normal so we're playing catch up constantly.

[Linas.P]

48 minutes ago, doog442 said:

Its like going back to the dark ages isn't it ? The future is public transport  and cycling (taking EV's out of the equation for the minute) Both have the lowest carbon footprint. I commuted for years by bicycle (and often wore a suit at the other end). We will never catch up with the Netherlands but can follow Germany, Belgium and Denmark for example who have made massive inroads. I've cycled extensively throughout Europe and the cycling commuting culture is huge and perfectly normal so we're playing catch up constantly.

OMG..  cyclist apologists... this point of view is so convenient for politicians, they are so glad that majority of people are so easily manipulated like you, because why improve roads, why develop infrastructure when you can simply feed people with bu****t, grass, put them on bicycles and let them rip each-other to pieces. Motorists frankly hates cyclist, because roads are not fit for purpose and on top of all issues you still have to babysit grown up man just in case they ride right into your car. Cyclists hates motorists because they are apparently planet saviours and feel entitled to... and nobody have time to step back and realise one thing - we all just need better infrastructure, better roads and less BS and broken promises!

Travelling isn't even an issue when it comes to CO2 and global warming - 10% of total CO2 is transportation, 2.4% commuting in cars, but you guys are just so convenient soldiers, with your heard mentality, cycling, using stinky trains, exchanging diseases, then taking showers at work and putting on suits - heroes! Tap your selves over the shoulder, you saved the planet!

Using human as a method or propulsion was, is and will always be retarded and backwards, we are better than that! What is next - instead of heavy oil turbines in tankers we going take 1000 slaves like in ancient times and give them paddles? Cruise industry going to cheer the cyclist mentality coming their way - "they not only pay for cruise, they even row themselves!"

The next time you order container from China it will come on top of this (in 800days that is):

And I mean we just joking around here, but you need to understand that above is the exact equivalent of bicycle as a form of transportation just in a form of ship. Basically, a device or a vehicle which is powered by human muscle power. It doesn't get more basic than that when it comes to progress, with exception of maybe jumping into river and letting the currents to flush you downstream.

[doog442]

12 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

OMG..  cyclist apologists... this point of view is so convenient for politicians, they are so glad that majority of people are so easily manipulated like you, because why improve roads, why develop infrastructure when you can simply feed people with bu****t, grass, put them on bicycles and let them rip each-other to pieces. Motorists frankly hates cyclist, because roads are not fit for purpose and on top of all issues you still have to babysit grown up man just in case they ride right into your car. Cyclists hates motorists because they are apparently planet saviours and feel entitled to... and nobody have time to step back and realise one thing - we all just need better infrastructure, better roads and less BS and broken promises!

 

This guy 

You win the Internet Linas....again. We're not apologists...we're cyclists. 

Every one of us who cycles to work ensures that you'll get there in your smartly dressed Primarni suit a nano second quicker...you should rejoice.

 

[Linas.P]

Just now, doog442 said:

This guy 

You win the Internet Linas....again. We're not apologists...we're cyclists. 

Every one of us who cycles to work ensures that you'll get there in your smartly dressed Primarni suit a nano second quicker...you should rejoice.

Sadly that is not how it works, entire country mentality means that politicians are left uncountable, dozen of cyclists die by cycling between moving traffic on unsuitable roads, dozen of innocent drivers get's thrown in jail for trying to bring food on their family table by commuting to work. And I don't get to work nano-second quicker... I have to pend 1 hour in the traffic over the distance which could be covered in 18 minutes.

[ganzoom]

I think this sums up the direction of this thread. Luckily the progress and the future cannot be halted by irrelevant rantings on the internet.

[Linas.P]

15 minutes ago, ganzoom said:

Luckily the progress and the future cannot be halted by irrelevant rantings on the internet.

Yes it won't, but this will:

8 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Let's brake it down... so he says that if everyone will switch to EVs the increase going to be only 10% or ~6GWh. Now I would say at very minimum one needs ~22KWh charger to properly charge fully electric car at home. Yes more common home "fast chargers" are like 7KWh, but they are ridiculously slow... even taking EVs with outdated technology like BMW i3 it will take 8hours to charge it with such charger. With improving batteries in EVs and improving chargers 22KWh will be the bare minimum one needs at home and I am think that by 2020 even 150KWh will be realistic.

So let's just assume technology does not improve somehow and by 2030 we are somehow stuck with only 22KWh chargers. First of all 99% of homes cannot support 22KWh chargers... and what exactly they are proposing for this issue? Secondly, let's come back to that 6GWh figure... so extra 6GWh could only charge ~ 272,000 cars @22KWh... somehow that seems like "little bit less" than 40 million cars which are currently on the roads (and increasing). Even if we go back to 7KWh chargers that only charges ~900k cars... So no... this figure he is giving cannot be right!

Ok...let's look into what it could actually charge, so 6GW/40million = 1.5KWh... Accidentally, my computer power supply is 1500W, that is computer not a car! Seriously, that is not enough for average microwave, never mind car. Just for fun... how long that is going to take to charge aforementioned BMW i3 (which is already very generous as majority of EVs have much larger batteries even today)... it will take just 37.3 hours or 1.5 days. I am sure going out every other day is fine! They probably expect COVID to last forever 

[dutchie01]

Not sure where but I read somewhere that the IS/RC will be discontinued. So, what about your next car? I am thinking about an Audi Q4 Etron?

[Guest]

15 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Motorists frankly hates cyclist,

A ridiculous statement, I am a cyclist and.........I drive a Lexus, so I must hate myself!!
cycling must always be considered as a means of transport, now and in the future, not at the detriment of other transport modes but in its own right, for the health benefits as well as the environmental side of things

[Dealkent]

On 10/16/2020 at 2:52 PM, PRT68 said:

Corolla hybrid, top range model. Would definitely not go for an SUV thing. 

I like the looks of the Corolla Cross hybrid 

[Mincey]

Finally Tesla see sense and create a petrol powered version:

[PaulWhitt20]

Saw a Tesla at the tip yesterday. [emoji854]

[Mincey]

23 minutes ago, PaulWhitt20 said:

Saw a Tesla at the tip yesterday.

They'll take anything these days.

[Linas.P]

On 11/21/2020 at 11:32 AM, Derant said:

A ridiculous statement, I am a cyclist and.........I drive a Lexus, so I must hate myself!!
cycling must always be considered as a means of transport, now and in the future, not at the detriment of other transport modes but in its own right, for the health benefits as well as the environmental side of things

That you don't have cyclist, then it does not make you in right and me wrong... it is just your opinion.

Cycling is as much of transport as horse riding, electric scooter riding and skate boarding - and whilst this is great for leisure (and I love it) it is still retarded way of commuting and transportation... just my opinion.

If you want to test may statement "motorists hates cyclists", just add "why" and type the same in google search and you will find million reasons. To be fair - I have not found any good quality statistics which would say "70 or 80 or 90% of motorists hates cyclists", so there is potential the whole "hate" thing is overblown and not as many motorists as one may thing actually hates cyclists. At least I was not able to find and concrete statistics. However, if we flip the questions - how many motorists likes cyclists, how many supports more infrastructure for cycling and more cyclists on the road, then it would be small number.

I recognise that this isn't fault of cyclists or motorists, it is fault of government and it is done deliberately.. in my opinion.

And how did we get to discussing cycling when topic is IS/RC/GS being discontinued!? Ohhh I know - somebody mentioned that cars being outright removed from the roads is not an issue and cycling or walking being a "future" is the way to go.

[Overland]

In the mean, at the side of our very wide topic discussion, in Germany...

 

https://www.macitynet.it/bmw-investe-400-milioni-di-euro-sulle-auto-elettriche/

 

You can easily translate with Google

[javadude]

On 11/20/2020 at 2:06 PM, Linas.P said:

...because not every EV will need charging every day and at the same time...

You nailed it here. Most people will charge just a days worth of commutting, or charge every few days. Rarely will you reach 0 and charge to 100% on any day.

EVs will help smooth out demand by using surplus power, eg wind power, overnight when little else is being used. It already happens. On the Octopus Agile tarriff they sometimes charge negative overnight to encourage people to take the excess.

Then there may come a time when smart chargers are used to manage demand and still finish in time for you to leave in the morning.

You mentioned 22kw charging at home... that needs a three phase supply which will cost you a few thousand. I find 7kw fine. I'm on Octopus Go (My referral link is share.octopus.energy/noble-sheep-177 if you want to switch - we each get £50 credit) and get 5p/kw charging from 00:30 to 04:30 and that's usually long enough to charge my daily usage. Also it equates to about 1/10th of the price of petrol. (The £50 credit I got on referral effectively gives me 3,000 miles free fuel.)

[Linas.P]

@javadude - few things to note here...

One you comparing it with "now", whereas I am sure energy demand for EVs will rise by 2025 and 2030. It is inevitable that cars will have bigger batteries and longer ranges. So I would expect that even 150KW chargers will be necessity, never mind 22KW.

Secondly, even if we take most favourable example for the powergrid and say that cars will be charged only every other day and only for the mileage they do (instead of 0-100%) that still going to require a lot of PEAK power. We may have sufficient energy production overall (heck we waste like 50% of energy produced), but we still don't have sufficient peak capacity. Even if I only need to recharge 55miles of range after I am back home, it still going to require full 7KW (or 22 or 150) for that short period. Perhaps I only need to charge it for 20 minutes, but does everyone else. Result everyone plugs their cars when they get home and we will have black-outs. Sure there are solutions for that - like smart charging stations where you will be able to plug-in your car when you got back home, but it only starts charging when there is capacity for it. I see issues even with that, but that is another discussion.

Finally, don't expect electricity prices for motoring to stay low. Fuel is cheap as well, for example when petrol costs £100.0p/Litre the actual cost of fuel is just 13.25p (+59.75p duty, +~7% distributor retailer costs + 20% VAT). The reason you get electricity cheap is because it is subsidised at the moment. Once we have more EVs I am sure there will be different tax. Most likely you will have to pay per mile you drive (which is kind of fair). But the point is - via road tax and fuel duties government currently rackets £40bn out of motorists, when we switch to EV they will find other ways of getting same £40bn out. Even if we all stop driving and we switch to bicycles they then going to charge bicycles... if we stop cycling then they will charge us for walking, if we stop walking they will charge us for breathing. Point is - that money will be paid into the budget no matter what, if not from transportation then from general taxation. EVs are just initiative where you can temporary thrive on the backs of other people like us (ICE owners) who have to pay tax for you, but it won't be forever.

 

[paulrnx]

Could someone remind me what the original topic was please 😀

[Overland]

36 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

Could someone remind me what the original topic was please 😀

👏👏👏

[royoftherovers]

1 minute ago, Overland said:

👏👏👏

Cris, just go back to page1 of this thread.

[dutchie01]

28 minutes ago, Overland said:

👏👏👏

IS/CT/RC will be continued in the UK as EV ?

[Linas.P]

14 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

IS/CT/RC will be continued in the UK as EV ?

That would be good, although looking to UX300e it seems that Lexus is about 5 years, or one generation away from properly hitting this market. Furthermore, UK and rest of EU is kind of secondary markets where we get just some stuff nobody else wants (bar few models like all Fs). So I would imagine to see EVs announced in US before they do it in Europe and in Europe before they do it in UK. What I am saying - even if there would be proper Lexus EVs, we would still need to add 2 years before they make it on our shores.