Indicator stalk (switch) on RCs

[Linas.P]

Kind of funny topic, but I really hate indicator stalk on RC... this is not made better by me being religious when it comes to indicating. So the problem is that for some reason Lexus decided to have... not even sure how to describe it "stay in position stalk" - basically it means that when you indicate the stalk not going to stay up or down, but immanently comes back to middle position. To cancel you then have to move it in opposite direction from where you were indicating. As there are no pronounced clicks or positions, this means it is easy to turn on opposite indicator by accident. It may be thing which depends on personal taste, but I always hated this type of indicators - I am not much into BMW culture, but rumour has it some BMW drivers uses this an excuse not to use indicators at all ... and I understand why - it is better not to indicate at all, then to indicate 6 times backwards and forwards incorrectly before you can switch off the dang thing!

I believe IS mk3 has the same thing, but no other Lexus has it - not CT, not NX, not RX, not LC and not even ES - so I am not sure why it was decided for this to be a thing in only IS/RC. I know that theoretically there are 4 positions, 2 being temporary - so if you change the lane you push it half way-up and in blinks 3 times and stops, whereas if you want to indicate for a while, then you pull it all the way and when you turn the wheel ~45 degreed, to one side and then back it cancels. Problem is that there are no real steps so it is easy to pull it all the way when changing the lane or overtaking and slight movement of steering wheel is not enough to cancel it. Equally, when cancelling it is easy to turn it in opposite side... I mean just look at instruction - you need 4x4 table to operate indicators!

Anyway, maybe I am the only one weird like that, but this drive me crazy... to the point I am actually considering whenever there are any ways to replace the stalk from... I don't know.. NX or something. So I guess the question - is there any compatible cars where the change would be pug&play ... and if not - is it even possible without full custom steering column?

[NemesisUK]

By only briefly  pressing the stalk, up or down will set the indicators to operate just 3,5,7 times depending on the customisation one sets.

If one presses and holds the stalk up or down for a couple of seconds it will set the indicators on until the steering is turned in the direction opposite to that indicated.

If required to maintain the indication during direction changes, perhaps negotiating roundabouts, simply hold the stalk up or down as required.

Personally I find it all very intuitive and works really well.

I also find the audible notification rather refined and pleasing, so much better than the rather jarring tones used by some manufacturers 

[TV10RAD]

Not sure if I have right end of the stick here but the concern seems to be cancellation of the indicators. Yes?

I have had my RC for just two months now and I find the indicators work perfectly in fact.

The easy option to lightly touch the stalk to indicate either, momentarily or for pulling out to overtake, is spot-on and if you wish to indicate for a turn coming up, then push it harder. When you've turned it simply cancels. It works fine.

I have moved from a 2014 Land Rover Freelander SD4 Auto HSE Luxury and it had the same method. I find the two-tier pressure indicator stalk to be ideal.

[Linas.P]

Point is quite simple - I prefer standard indicator switch which could be on or off, and to cancel it I can just very slightly touch it and it clicks back itself. There are no guessing or undefined positions and I can do it unconsciously with slightest touch of little finger... Now it really distracts me when driving and I often end-up turning on opposite indicator when cancelling.

I mean it is possible that I just use them "too hard" and I need to be little more subtle, so instead of turning it on permanently, I should be more careful and turn it to position 2 or 3. But I guess that is an issue in itself - I don't want to concentrate on tasks which should be unconscious to try no to cross undefined line where indicator goes into position 1 or 4.

And yes - you could say cancellation is an issue. But to be clear - it is not like I don't know how to use them... even if I am going to get used to this way, I am still going to hate it and if possible replace the stalk with one from any other Lexus vehicle.

Anyway, I was kind of expecting that there would be people who would actually prefer such indicators. But I still find weird that Lexus only put such switches in IS mk3... and as result RC got the same tech, because most of interior is taken directly from IS mk3.

 

[NemesisUK]

BTW the instructions you posted are for operating the windshield wipers, not the direction indicators...

[ColinBarber]

3 hours ago, Linas.P said:

but no other Lexus has it - not CT, not NX, not RX, not LC and not even ES

GS series IV has them.

[Linas.P]

1 minute ago, ColinBarber said:

GS series IV has them.

Yeah, I conveniently didn't mentioned it 😅

To be fair - I wasn't sure, but it does make sense, seems like there was period ~2012-2014 when Lexus for some reason decided that is the way, but then went back to good old simple indicator switch.

@NemesisUK - lol, you right! But it feels just as complex to use.

[Jez. W]

57 minutes ago, TV10RAD said:

Not sure if I have right end of the stick here but the concern seems to be cancellation of the indicators. Yes?

I have had my RC for just two months now and I find the indicators work perfectly in fact.

The easy option to lightly touch the stalk to indicate either, momentarily or for pulling out to overtake, is spot-on and if you wish to indicate for a turn coming up, then push it harder. When you've turned it simply cancels. It works fine.

I have moved from a 2014 Land Rover Freelander SD4 Auto HSE Luxury and it had the same method. I find the two-tier pressure indicator stalk to be ideal.

Same as above, took me a few turns to realise what was going on as I didn't know how it worked. When I drove home in it after collecting it i was caught out a few times by it not cancelling as I expected and turned it in the other way. After a few weeks I was totally used to it and quite like it now actually, just different. 

The light push of the indicator stalk and 3 flashes and then it cancels is perfect for most situations. Only when you are statuary or slow moving do you need the indicator on until you turn. 

 

 

[ColinBarber]

7 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Yeah, I conveniently didn't mentioned it 😅

To be fair - I wasn't sure, but it does make sense, seems like there was period ~2012-2014 when Lexus for some reason decided that is the way, but then went back to good old simple indicator switch.

@NemesisUK - lol, you right! But it feels just as complex to use.

Yeah that seems to have been it. They started fitting them and I guess customer feedback made them revert back as newer designs don't have them.

Personally I much prefer them to the older mechanical style where you fight them much more indicating right at a roundabout but initially turning left as they either cancel or you hold it in place and it feels like it is going to break the mechanism. I don't feel I have to concentrate to use them, only took a couple of drives to get use to the amount of force needed.

[Linas.P]

Yeah... the "light push" is not for me - I just have to waste to much of my brain energy to make sure it didn't push it too far... Just too much hassle for thing as simple as indicator. 

@ColinBarber - actually you right, I remember indicator sort of cancelling itself mid roundabout, but somehow that has happened to me much less often than issues with these new indicators. In fact there is certain steering angle when you cannot turn on indicators, or you have to hold the stalk (which is probably what you have in mind), because the the lobe which mean to cancel indicator conflicts with mechanism which suppose to be holding it in place.

Every-time I get into other car with "normal" indicators it reminds me how much I hate the (temporary) new style. In fact the best stalk is on LC, but that is not very surprising considering the whole car is in the league of it's own when it comes to build quality.

@NemesisUK Fixed:

I most like the "warning" saying if it flashes too quick then "maybe check if bulb is burned out", without considering that this instruction is meant for RC which has LED lights all around and are very unlikely to burn out... I doubt it would even change the frequency of flashing as LED works differently from incandescent bulb. 

 

[R07ARY]

So you can set the number of indications to 3,5 or 7 on the light touch?  Interesting, I'd prefer 5 for most conditions, he to look that one up in the manual.

[PRT68]

I found a quick search on YouTube is the best bet. Watch a few times, and then sit in the car and do it. I set mine to 7 flashes.

 

[GS300h2014]

I wasn't aware my GS had this feature, so thanks for the insight. I've just adjusted mine to 5 flashes using:

As one of the comments points out you move the wiper knob fully up & then only partially down for it to work.

[Linas.P]

I know how it works 😁

I still don't like it - so much so that I seriously thinking of ripping it apart and changing it, if only there is compatible part. In other words if it is matter of fining £300 part on eBay - I am doing it, but if it is £3000 fully custom development then sadly I will have to wait until I change the car to get rid of this cancer.

[J Henderson]

I must admit, I also hate this type of system on indicators. I guess on a car you will eventually get used to it, but in certain scenarios they are useless.

HGV drivers, for example, will regularly make use of flicking between left and right indicators to acknowledge being "flashed in" after an overtake.

[Charlie Alder]

Fisrt encountered this phenomenon when I had an IS300 as a loaner from Reading Lexus  while my IS200 was being serviced. Quite scary I must admit until I figured out what was going on and got used to it after only a short while. I had same feature on my MY17 CT and now on my MY20 UX. No real bother but wonder if feature is really necessary but having said that the same can be said about a lot of functions on modern cars. To put things in context I remember when having indicators on a car was something fantastic. Until they appeared all you had was a little orange sticky out thing. Dynamic cruise control! Now you are talking, what a gizmo that is.

[Linas.P]

On 10/24/2020 at 4:49 PM, Charlie Alder said:

 I had same feature on my MY17 CT and now on my MY20 UX. 

I a little bit surprised - because I just had 2 loaners 2020 CT and UX and neither of them have this type of indicators. I cannot remember what my old loaners used to be, but I had like 4 CTs before and I cannot remember this being a case either.

Maybe you confusing with having intermediate position for "temporary mode"? Because I would say thee are probably are 3 systems:

• Old system like in my IS mk2, where you have basically 3 positions: middle=off, up=right, down=left and the stalk stays lock in each position.
• New system like in RC and IS mk3, where you have 5 positions, but stalk is not locked into either and always remains in the middle: middle=always, up=right temp, down=left temp, up-all the way=right , down- all the way=left. and to cancel, you either need to wait for temp to flash set number of times (3,5,7) or you need to pull stalk into opposite direction if you pulled it all the way. This is where it gets confusing, because there are no noticeable steps and stalk always stays in the middle. So for example after exiting the roundabout, you indicating left, but you not sure if this is temporary signal or permanent one (because there are no way to tell), if you now going to try to cancel it but it was temp signal, then you will inadvertently going to turn right indicator. And this is system which I hate.
• New system like on LC, UX, CT (at least 2018 + models) - you have 5 positions: middle=off, up=right temp, down=left temp, up-all the way=right , down- all the way=left. The difference is that when you pull stalk all the way up/down, then it stays-up/down and steps are quite distinct - you can feel the click between temp and perm position. Meaning that now it is very clear what is happening - if you stalk is locked up/down, then you know it is in permanent positions and you need to cancel it (light touch will click indicator back into position). If you indicating but stalk is in the middle, then it is clear that you have temp indicator and it will cancel itself - I am fine with this and like using temp signals when simply changing the lane for example, or indicating out of the roundabout. And I use perm positions, when I am waiting to join the road or joining motorway from the slip road etc.

[malcolmw]

Your third option is the best and the de-facto standard on most cars. I always found the IS Mk 3 (option 2) a pain even after driving it for some time.

[Charlie Alder]

Hello Linas.P

Thank you for your comprehensive explanation. You are most improbably right in what you say. What I was referring to is what is often called lane changing indication ie indicators operate for say 3/5 times then cancel automatically so thanks for the heads up. BTW sorry to see you had such a bad experience with Lexus  Reading. I used them for 12 years to service my IS200 and had no problems in that time so based on your experience something has changed.

[Linas.P]

11 minutes ago, Charlie Alder said:

Hello Linas.P

Thank you for your comprehensive explanation. You are most improbably right in what you say. What I was referring to is what is often called lane changing indication ie indicators operate for say 3/5 times then cancel automatically so thanks for the heads up. BTW sorry to see you had such a bad experience with Lexus  Reading. I used them for 12 years to service my IS200 and had no problems in that time so based on your experience something has changed.

No problem and thanks for your concerns... I would say that in the end of the day they have replaced everything for free + complimentary MOT and "good will" rear disks. So in the end I am completely satisfied with the outcome. I think the takeaway from my experience that you cannot ever be too relaxed when buying used car or lulled into false sense of security even when using official franchise dealership. Best is to document everything and agree everything in writing which helped tremendously in my case and resulted in overall satisfactory outcome.

Yes so in terms of indicators my issue is not "lane change/temp indicators", but the stalk that always stays in middle position making gestures ambiguous and resulting in confusing controls... or at very least - it does not inspire confidence when using the indicators... And that is what I don't like when driving - indecisiveness causes accidents, decisions should be made with confidence... and if instead of focusing on the road I am trying to cancel bleeping indicator for 3rd time... that is not good.

[Charlie Alder]

You are so right in what you say about buying from dealers either new or used cars. In the 16 years I have owned a Lexus in  my experience the company is not the same in terms of product and service but still happy to buy a Lexus hence the new UX.