Dudley Dealer is back !

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, steve2006 said:

Linas, I would also like to read that sentencing report do you have a link? Via PM if you wish.

Sorry, I should have said "summary of offences", It would be indeed interesting to see what his pre-sentence reports looked like (seems like it didn't help him much thought).

This is public information so don't see issue sharing: 

https://www.dudley.gov.uk/business/environmental-health/health-and-safety/health-and-safety-enforcement/prosecutions-register-for-the-dudley-borough/?view=31969

And as well information you linked previously, stating that he pleaded guilty for changing description after selling the car - landing him fraud offence on top of other offences.

[jakemjfoster]

Hi all, I recently bought this car on Friday 23rd October for £1350. I feel very uneasy about my decisions after stumbling upon this thread not even a week later. 

I asked the seller why he had the car and he’d mentioned that he was a trader. I didn’t think anything of it as I was more interested in the car than his back story, but I’ve realised the car was never registered in his name and the logbook had (who I assume to be) the previous owners name on. He also asked me if I’d like an invoice upon handing the money over and I declined, he also then stated that “I will just say the car is sold as seen blah blah blah” which I now assume to be his attempt at reading me my rights of purchase under FCA regulations.

When driving to get petrol for my journey home, not even two miles away from his house, I’d gone slowly over a speedbumb and the drivers coil spring snapped. I had to make the journey home from Dudley to Rotherham with that in mind! 

Umar had also promised me he was going to send me a reader for the sat nav unit that wasn’t working, I got a phone call 3 days later saying that wasn’t going to happen anymore (luckily I’d picked one up from a breaker by this point so it wasn’t a problem).

I plan to fully restore the car after wanting an LS400 for some time now, I’m an automotive painter by trade so the bodywork isn’t a problem for me. After seeing this post I’m obviously very cautious as to whether I’m going to be able to drive this car relatively stress free until I decide to put it away for restoration. I’m hoping it’s going to prove as mechanically sound as described. 
 

Any additional information or opinions based on my experience would be welcome. Many thanks, Jake. 

[rich1068]

Hey Jake. I'm in Sheffield so not that far from you. Any help you need, give me a shout.

[jakemjfoster]

Thanks @rich1068 I appreciate the reply. Obviously reading a thread like this and his conviction reports I’m not feeling too great about the situation. I’m not the most clued up on regulations and buyers rights either. 

[Bluesman]

1 hour ago, jakemjfoster said:

Hi all, I recently bought this car on Friday 23rd October for £1350. I feel very uneasy about my decisions after stumbling upon this thread not even a week later. 

I asked the seller why he had the car and he’d mentioned that he was a trader. I didn’t think anything of it as I was more interested in the car than his back story, but I’ve realised the car was never registered in his name and the logbook had (who I assume to be) the previous owners name on. He also asked me if I’d like an invoice upon handing the money over and I declined, he also then stated that “I will just say the car is sold as seen blah blah blah” which I now assume to be his attempt at reading me my rights of purchase under FCA regulations.

When driving to get petrol for my journey home, not even two miles away from his house, I’d gone slowly over a speedbumb and the drivers coil spring snapped. I had to make the journey home from Dudley to Rotherham with that in mind! 

Umar had also promised me he was going to send me a reader for the sat nav unit that wasn’t working, I got a phone call 3 days later saying that wasn’t going to happen anymore (luckily I’d picked one up from a breaker by this point so it wasn’t a problem).

I plan to fully restore the car after wanting an LS400 for some time now, I’m an automotive painter by trade so the bodywork isn’t a problem for me. After seeing this post I’m obviously very cautious as to whether I’m going to be able to drive this car relatively stress free until I decide to put it away for restoration. I’m hoping it’s going to prove as mechanically sound as described. 
 

Any additional information or opinions based on my experience would be welcome. Many thanks, Jake. 

We try to do our best in trying to protect our members/future members but even doing our best doesn't always work. I sincerely hope this doesn't cost you too much.

Enjoy the forum there are some great and very knowledgeable members.

 

[PCM]

9 hours ago, jakemjfoster said:

Thanks @rich1068 I appreciate the reply. Obviously reading a thread like this and his conviction reports I’m not feeling too great about the situation. I’m not the most clued up on regulations and buyers rights either. 

Hopefully all will be well.

Will you be leaving eBay feedback - or is it not an option?

[Malc]

11 hours ago, jakemjfoster said:

I’d gone slowly over a speedbumb and the drivers coil spring snapped.

This can happen to anyone at any time but sadly it's happened to you immediately

A few days before I bought mine with full Lexus service history some 9.5 years and 125k miles ago  one of the springs snapped AND Steve on here had the same thing happen on his ..............  just the wrong place at the wrong time I'm afraid

BUT all being well your " new " car will prove to be a good'un 

Malc

[Razor61]

12 hours ago, rich1068 said:

Hey Jake. I'm in Sheffield so not that far from you. Any help you need, give me a shout.

Same here, I'm near Blackburn if you need any help from me.

[jakemjfoster]

Thank you gents. I didn’t purchase the car via eBay transaction so I doubt I can leave feedback. 

[steve2006]

It looks like dodgy Dudley has got away with it again, with non of his details on the V5C and no receipt he has successfully sold another car with no comeback or further responsibilities.

Fair comment regarding the broken spring, as mentioned one of my rears broke whilst the car was parked up at an airport hotel and I was greeted by the car nearly on the floor.

At least you can sort out the paint issues I just hope you have the mechanical skills to match.

Could I ask was there a can of under seal and brush in the boot ?

 

[Bluesman]

8 hours ago, jakemjfoster said:

Thank you gents. I didn’t purchase the car via ebay transaction so I doubt I can leave feedback. 

You cant leave feedback as it was a Classified Ad. Just keep your wits about you and if you see anything else just let us know.

[jakemjfoster]

@steve2006 no under seal or a brush in the boot pal. Since I last commented I’ve had the car in the air and had a look underneath, all seems ok (usual surface rust of a car spent time at the coast but nothing with alarm bells ringing) and I’ve had a few mechanic heads looking in the bay and it looks good there too. 
 

Obviously only time can tell what will happen. I’ve also since installed HSD coilovers and had the pleasure of getting a feel for the condition of the suspension components and the install went a lot smoother than some modern cars. Even the split pins that lock the castle nuts on the wishbone were removed without breaking!
 

I’m still nervous at the back of my mind about the whole situation, but as far as things go so far, the cars doing fine. 
 

Again, thanks gents for offering your help and advice. Would definitely recommend this forum to any other Lexus owner. 

[ambermarine]

Your fears can be further reduced knowing you have the best built car of its time.

[Linas.P]

24 minutes ago, Greer said:

I seems to me that many posts on this thread are written by people who have totally lost perspective of the form they talking about, which is 20 to maybe even 30 year old car mark which has developed some age & wear & tear problems.....wow, what  surprise that is

It has nothing to do with this. The only obligation seller has is to describe the car correctly - if it has wear an tear - fine, 30 years old - fine, million miles - fine, previous write-off - fine, even blown engine is fine. As long as this is what it says in the description!

However, if description says car has done only 80k, when it did 500k, if it says car is in great condition, bet exhaust is fixed with bear can and air suspension collapsed, if it says engine is smooth when actually the bearing is spun, if it says car never had an accident when it is CAT-S  insurance write-off - that is fraud my friend.

Equally, nobody is asking seller to know all the faults, it is just not possible to list every small detail on 30 years old car. And that is where "statutory rights" comes in, meaning that you can go back to seller and say - "there was a fault which was not listed and thus should be addressed". Seller has to honour this, or if the seller thinks you are unreasonable, he can refund you and take car back. What seller cannot do is to deliberately miss the detail in description and once you buy the car, update the description to cover himself from liability - that is again fraud.

So nobody is asking sellers to only sell "perfect cars", what sellers are required to do is to describe the faults and condition accurately to best of their knowledge.

[royoftherovers]

Alan,

A seller who is a Trader has Statutory Responsibilities. Dudley man is seeking to avoid those responsibilities and furthermore he is guilty of false description. He is misrepresenting both himself and the Vehicle he is selling.

A seller who is a Private seller has Contractual Responsibilities which Dudley man is seeking to avoid.

In China, he would be shot!

In UK, we wipe his backside and tell him not to be a naughty boy.

The Members of this Forum try very hard to be vigilant.

You really must do your homework !

[Linas.P]

28 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

In China, he would be shot!

Not sure about that, the quality of his cars may be considered acceptable there and even within law? As well more-likely stabbed repeatedly with pitch-fork rather than shot - but that is different topic.

[Linas.P]

11 minutes ago, Greer said:

.That means I should never, ever sell any of my used cars if I wrote more than make, model & year of manufacture, well your post is amusing if nothing else.

If you are incapable of describing car correctly, or unwilling to take liability - then yes you shouldn't. Describing any goods for sale correctly (especially cars) is not a question of personal taste or preference - it is legal requirement.

However, as private individual (rather than car dealer) your liability is much less... especially if you trade in the car or sell it to say car trader, then it is their own liability to check what they buying and offer the price based on their own inspection. For this reason they generally leave themselves generous margin off error and offer bottom prices just in case they miss some fault. Obviously, you cannot lie even to them - if you know there is engine fault and you have just masked the "check-engine" light it is still fraud and they can sue you for damages.

In the end of the day, it is up to you what you going to do with your used cars - but be aware that if you are unable to be truthful about condition of the car, then you may join Dudley guy in the courtroom.

[Linas.P]

52 minutes ago, Greer said:

The make, model bodywork very good, excellent runner. Thats about the most anybody here or elsewhere can accuratly say. What you call ''my liability'' completely ends after any test drive, so it's caveat emptor from that point!

You have ignored what I have said, so I am not going to repeat myself indefinitely and this is last post to explain it to you if it is still not clear.

If it is true - e.g. "Lexus LS400 - body very good, normal wear and tier for mileage, otherwise excellent runner." - there is no issue with this. However, if you know there is engine fault and check engine light is on and you further go ahead and blank/disconnect that light to hide the fault, then "excellent runner" part of your description is lie.

Then it comes to proving this in court of law - if you said "excellent runner" and it turn outs that engine is blown, then you can pretend to be stupid and say "I didn't know, the buyer did test drive and I am none the wiser". This will fly if you private seller, not so much if you car dealer. So I would say as long as you didn't intentionally hide anything from buyer, you should be alright as private seller, the levels of your own morale can decide - sort of  "I didn't lie but I haven't said all the truth either". If you blanked the check engine light to hide this fact, this straight away proves you are lying and thus liable in this case - this would be all the evidence court needs to establish the fact you were indeed lying and instruct you to cover the cost.

However, there is one step further and this is where Dudley seller got his criminal record - if you blanked the engine light, sold the car and retrospectively updated the advert to say - "Lexus LS400 - body very good, normal wear and tier for mileage, otherwise excellent runner potential engine fault and check engine light broken" then it this elevates your sentence from civil offence to criminal one - this is fraud.

Try to read it carefully this time and maybe you could identify the lines which separates lack of knowledge, from negligence and finally from fraud. 

[Linas.P]

1 minute ago, Greer said:

Apart from the guy in Dudley......There has been no mention by anyone on here (or any other posts Ive seen), you ave chaged the topic to what amounts to criminal deception or attempted deception. Please do not take this post off topic, you can start yourown post on criminal deception.

I provided that as example to make it clearer for you what separates negligence from fraud. The part where Dudley seller got his criminal record is changing description after the fact:

35 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

However, there is one step further and this is where Dudley seller got his criminal record - if you blanked the engine light, sold the car and retrospectively updated the advert to say - "Lexus LS400 - body very good, normal wear and tier for mileage, otherwise excellent runner potential engine fault and check engine light broken" then it this elevates your sentence from civil offence to criminal one - this is fraud.

This not only proves that he knew the about the fault, but as well decided to deliberately hide it - so fraud. Criminal deception is still fraud, so sorry if my use of "fraud" in broad and generic way. 

You may not like the law which required people to be truthful, but that does not make you immune from it.  

[royoftherovers]

"You may not like the law which required people to be truthful, but that does not make you immune from it. "

 

Or for that matter laws which require motorists not to exceed certain speed limits, amigo !! 

 

[rich1068]

Not sure if you're aware Linas but Greer is a serial Dudley Dealer apologist. 

[royoftherovers]

1 minute ago, rich1068 said:

Not sure if you're aware Linas but Greer is a serial Dudley Dealer apologist. 

Funny you should mention that because of the way my mind can occasionally warp sometimes I did think that Greer was a pseudonym for D Dealer.I must have seen too many Inspector Clouseau films.

[Linas.P]

12 minutes ago, rich1068 said:

Not sure if you're aware Linas but Greer is a serial Dudley Dealer apologist. 

I do know, not sure if that is being "devil's advocate"  or ignorance or both.

13 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Or for that matter laws which require motorists not to exceed certain speed limits, amigo !! 

I never said I am immune from occasional hypocrisy... However, highway code is not the law, there are only by-laws which dictates what happens when you caught braking rules (namely the Road Traffic Act). So speeding is not illegal, but getting caught can have consequences.

8 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Funny you should mention that because of the way my mind can occasionally warp sometimes I did think that Greer was a pseudonym for D Dealer.I must have seen too many Inspector Clouseau films.

I was afraid to make this connection, just in case I upset you in particular 😁 libel laws et al.

[Linas.P]

1 minute ago, Greer said:

Can you clarify who think might be negligent >& why they are<

Please explain what you mean more precisely.

As a seller, you have duty to describe your good accurately to best of your knowledge - if you don't, then you are at very least negligent. On top of that if you genuinely interested in fair transaction then taking any ambiguity away from the description is simply good practice. This is not legal requirement, but certain description could be misleading e.g. "excellent runner" implies car is mechanically sorted. So you would want to avoid it unless that is absolutely true - just saves the trouble.

The second one simply means - this is not our opinion, this is simply the laws in UK. You may dislike them, but this doesn't makes us wrong - we just explaining you that Dudley dealer broke the laws and therefore his sentence is justified. 

[The-Acre]

I see this as pointless, the whole point of this post is to alert potential buyers that a convicted criminal is selling cars, a man with a proven track record of deception and lies going back several years.  What's the point of discussing wording?  Dudley is the only word needed.