Engine Management Light & MoT

IanA2 · October 12, 2020

Just realised I posted this in the wrong place. So here it is again:

Having spent nigh on £2K last year on getting our beloved 430 trailered up north to get a specialst to resolve an EML issue following Mot refusal.

And not having had said EML issue satisfactorily resolved.

And as the MoT is again due, I was sure that this time the old girl would be off to the knacker's yard, so it was I thought all for nothing.

BUT, it had never needed the northwards trip.

BECAUSE.

Cars registerd before 2003 DO NOT REQUIRE A WORKING EML TO PASS AN MoT.

There we are, glad I got that off my chest !!

IanA2 · October 16, 2020

So is that everyone knew, or didn't know about the pre 2003 rule?

Just asking, as I am surprised that this bit of information has not elicited a single response.

IanA2 · October 30, 2020

Having fun with Toyota this morning. Despite telling them when I booked it in that pre 2003 cars don't need EML's to work. I get a call. Your EML doesn't work, failure.

No say I and quote the law. She says she'll get back to me and 20 mins later, says, yes you are right, it's not a failure on the EML, it's a failure on the VSC. £63.00 to clear it.

Well well. VSC was working this when it went into them and has never malfunctioned.

It's a wonderful life!

IanA2 · October 30, 2020

Curiouser and curiouser, they now tell me they cannot clear the VSC, but they know a man who can, Lexus!!

That'll be £310 sir!!!!

So yet another walletecomy AND a car that cannot be used.

In the past, when I've booked in for service and MoT, the MoT has always been

done first. Not today. Oh joy, need to decide what to do.

IanA2 · October 31, 2020

And so the Monologue continues.

Having asessed the possible outlay to get the VSC fixed I've decided it's a gamble too far.

So, the beloved GS is off to the scrapyard. It has cost £500 plus per outing this year and I'm not prepared to take that risk on a twenty year old car.

So, that's the end of the Lexus line for me, I've dumped the idea of a hybrid as our muilage is negligible. A RAV4 will be delivered on Tuesday.

Off to the Toyota club now.

steve2006 · October 31, 2020

They do eventually get to that point Ian, every MOT time I say if it fails on something serious ( expensive) it’s gone. Same attitude again 2 weeks ago and I’m now stuck with it for another year as it passed with no advisories. I am rewarding it with a roof respray and wheel refurb though in November.

As for Toyota don’t tell anyone but mine is badged Toyota but I get away with it being a Lexus in disguise, good luck with the new motor it’s still Japanese and generally reliable.

Stay with us....you don’t have to own a Lexus to be a member, you may want help and advice fitting a LS400 V8 in that Rav 4 😀

IanA2 · October 31, 2020

Thanks. I suppose what is most annoying is that the car runs perfectly well.

I have to say the idea of a V8 transplant is VERY appealing 🙂

Most of my cars have been V8's and usually a lot bigger than 2L. (Biggest was my SL60, a cracker) But I think the days of big petrol engines is over.

Hey ho and on we go.....

johnatg · November 1, 2020

I understand your despair, Ian. BUT

1) I don't believe that a 2000 car can be failed on an illuminated VSC light any more than for an EML light. Where does it say in the MoT testers' manual that it would be a failure? A MoT failure can only be issued for a specific point in the manual.

and 2) Lexus cars light up the VSC for a whole host of reasons, many of them completely trivial. Yes, it could be serious but it can also be caused by a minor electrical or communications glitch, especially if it wasn't on when it went in and the garage have had the engine running on the hoist with the key in and out of the car. It could easily be reset just by running a few miles or by disconnecting and reconnecting the Battery, or by replacing the key Battery. Of course it could be terminal, but I would at least try a few things like that and then sell the car - someone will take it on - if it hasn't gone already.

ColinBarber · November 1, 2020

13 minutes ago, johnatg said:

1) I don't believe that a 2000 car can be failed on an illuminated VSC light any more than for an EML light. Where does it say in the MoT testers' manual that it would be a failure? A MoT failure can only be issued for a specific point in the manual.

No ruling around the year of the vehicle, if it has some form of stability control:

johnatg · November 1, 2020

11 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

No ruling around the year of the vehicle, if it has some form of stability control:

Ah - OK - but note 'you should only fail a vehicle if you're certain that the warning light is indicating an ESC malfunction'. In Ian's case, they don't know what's causing it so they cannot be 'certain'.

ColinBarber · November 1, 2020

3 minutes ago, johnatg said:

Ah - OK - but note 'you should only fail a vehicle if you're certain that the warning light is indicating an ESC malfunction'. In Ian's case, they don't know what's causing it so they cannot be 'certain'.

I agree but we get into the world of opinion and interpretation which is difficult to overturn. The owners manual isn't going to help here as that normally states that a VSC warning should be checked out immediately by your dealer and you have a compromised stability/braking system - if it stated the light may illuminate just because your fuel filler cap is loose, or your Battery is a little discharged then you would have a way to argue your case.

TigerFish · November 1, 2020

What were the codes shown for the EML being on Ian?

Sent from my Iphone using Tapatalk Pro

IanA2 · November 1, 2020

1 minute ago, ColinBarber said:

I agree but we get into the world of opinion and interpretation which is difficult to overturn. The owners manual isn't going to help here as that normally states that a VSC warning should be checked out immediately by your dealer and you have a compromised stability/braking system - if it stated the light may illuminate just because your fuel filler cap is loose, or your battery is a little discharged then you would have a way to argue your case.

Yes it's tricky. Here's a pic they sent me. Also, in the (now dissapeared) invoice for the service, there was an entry for brake cleaning, what ever that is.

IanA2 · November 1, 2020

40 minutes ago, TigerFish said:

What were the codes shown for the EML being on Ian?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Here are the only codes they sent:

IanA2 · November 1, 2020

Whoops sorry, seemed to have posted multiples 😞

39buss · November 2, 2020

Tiger Fish will fix it for you. Many moons ago he sent me the method when my VSC light came on after the LPG man plugged in his diagnostic kit which triggered the light so nothing dangerous concerning that. Off the top of my head it involves shorting pins 4 & 14 on the OBD port, ignition on for 6 minutes. I'll hunt out the print out to be sure this is correct if no one comes back to you. I'm sure they will.

IanA2 · November 2, 2020

5 minutes ago, 39buss said:

Tiger Fish will fix it for you. Many moons ago he sent me the method when my VSC light came on after the LPG man plugged in his diagnostic kit which triggered the light so nothing dangerous concerning that. Off the top of my head it involves shorting pins 4 & 14 on the OBD port, ignition on for 6 minutes. I'll hunt out the print out to be sure this is correct if no one comes back to you. I'm sure they will.

Yes, that works for the EML, not heard that it also works for VSC. Academic anyway, new car arrives Wednesday.

IanA2 · November 4, 2020

UPDATE:

The 430 is back in my custody, so we'll try the 4&14 trick soon.

Anyway, need to decide whither to I can sell it or keep it.

Thinking cap is on 🙂

Rav4 has arrived. What can I say. It's a car, it's not a GS or indeed a G.

Hey Ho....

IanA2 · November 7, 2020

Actually, the Rav's not a bad wee car. Nippier than I though and pretty comfy.

So, does anyone know if thet OBD 4&14 trick works? If so, I can get the 430 back on the road.

Thanks.

Malc · November 7, 2020

let me advise this

my Honda Legend has developed a MOT dash light failure fault these past 2 years.

It cannot be cleared by anyone it seems

EXCEPT

it can be cleared by my indy mechanic ( who takes it for it's MOT ) for the time of the MOT ....... and she passes ............. of course

it's then back on again shortly thereafter

The fault just tells everyone that the car cannot be driven in reverse but of course it can, and regularly for parking etc ....... it's just one of those annoying electrical glitches

Might I suggest that you build a relationship with a good indy mechanic, tell him the problem and that he should arrange for a sensible MOT pass

Could save you £000's

Malc

IanA2 · November 7, 2020

10 minutes ago, Malc said:

let me advise this

my Honda Legend has developed a MOT dash light failure fault these past 2 years.

It cannot be cleared by anyone it seems

EXCEPT

it can be cleared by my indy mechanic ( who takes it for it's MOT ) for the time of the MOT ....... and she passes ............. of course

it's then back on again shortly thereafter

The fault just tells everyone that the car cannot be driven in reverse but of course it can, and regularly for parking etc ....... it's just one of those annoying electrical glitches

Might I suggest that you build a relationship with a good indy mechanic, tell him the problem and that he should arrange for a sensible MOT pass

Could save you £000's

Malc

Thanks, Toyota said they couldn't clear it and it would have to go to Lexus.

Afraid there are no indies in these parts, good or bad, and unfortuatley, I got a £2K waletectomy last year trying (stupidly) to get the EML fixed.

Live and learn.

Malc · November 8, 2020

23 hours ago, IanA2 said:

Afraid there are no indies in these parts,

come come, there must be a small local garage in a village that would look after you well, they're all trying to nurture good clients and most are honourable and well-meaning and will do an excellent job for you at a sensible cost

I found mine as a back-street indy mechanic who had never touched a Lexus Ls400 before mine .............. 13 years ago now

They generally know lots of other mechanica around who could help solve a " problem "

Lexus and Toyota Main Dealers ( and all others too probably ) really can't be too bothered with older cars ....... ignoring the potential of the client for a future sale

Malc

IanA2 · November 8, 2020

I have a brilliant MB Indy which is why my '91 G is as strong as it was 28yrs ago, But lexus Indy? Not a one, and believe me I've searched. There was a decent mechanic in the next village, but he had so much land he sold it for mega bucks. and retired. If you can find a Lexus dealer within a 15 mile radius of P'boro then you're a better man than I Gunga Din.

That said, it would be really goods to find a skilled, reliable and above all, hoinest Lexux Indy, it really would be great to give the 430 a few more years as I had intended and planned for with a range of prophylatic measures.

Hey ho....