Failing 12 v battery

KayCee · October 12, 2020

Hi all

Had my car sinceFeb 2019 gor it from Lexus Sidcup it had been stood a while there i asked about the 12 v Battery said its a couple of months new showed me the date on the Battery was 18/11/18 so thought yes ok a couple of times this summer it let me down I was checking Menus and trying to get Lexus connect to work so had to put the smart charger on it the voltage was 11.2 and that was when it was failing now if i leave car stood more than a couple of days it wont start voltage down.

My Question is there an alternative Battery i can use as Sheffield quoting 250 plus for a new Battery "gulp" surely there is a AGM Battery that will fit I asked TOYOTA they said you will have to use Lexus its a Mk 4 by the way

TIA

Robert

jumbojake · October 12, 2020

we had the same problem with our Rx450h ... after a lot of searching, both my own and from someone on here, the conclusion is the only good solution is a genuine one ... try Lexus Parts Direct, they were a little cheaper.

There are nearly alternatives, but they don't quite meet the spec, either in terms of size or safety ... for me, it wasn't worth the risk on the safety side.

westo3 · October 12, 2020

Barry14uk started a very interesting thread on auxiliary 12v batteries on the RX300 etc forum check it out

KayCee · October 17, 2020

Thanks for that John i found that the Battery for my car was 200 from lexus parts direct better than the 250 from sheffield also with 3 yr warrantty sheffield said only 12 month

I have charged it a few times with the smart charger when the charger switches off it shows 14 v the next day its 12.4 and following day 12.2 but yet the smart charger graphic says 100%

charged which clearly it isnt I checked for earth leakage and there was none but i found that strange as there should be a few miil amps drain

So i will have to get a new Battery I had a good look at the Battery holding bracket and there is some fuses on top held with 2 nuts does that have to be took off before holding bracket as it looks like not much room to pull Battery out.

Also i looked at the plug for the temp sensor to see if i could disconnect that then realised that there was not a sensor wire coming from the Battery not fitted but date on Battery is 11/11/18 i bought car in feb 2019 could this have contributed to the demise of my Battery When i asked Sheffield if there was an alternative he went to great pains to tell me no as it as to have Sensor and vent plug other batterys dont have them i know i could stick sensor on side but as i said i havent got one one my Battery but the plug on end of loom is cliped to side of Battery cage

Hope some one can help this old pensioner with the removal of same

Thanks all

Robert

KayCee · October 18, 2020

Does anyone know if the fuseblock as to be removed first and does the radio need to be swiched of at the on/off switch

Thanks

ColinBarber · October 18, 2020

You don't need to worry about the radio, it will store the settings.

Not sure if you can just unbolt the +ve terminal and the lead/fuse can be moved out of the way you you need to do more - should become clear when you start to remove it.

You should get a Battery with a vent but I don't think it really needs to be an AGM as you have protection within the cabin as the boot is sealed off, unlike the RX for example.

KayCee · October 24, 2020

On 10/18/2020 at 12:40 PM, ColinBarber said:

You don't need to worry about the radio, it will store the settings.

Not sure if you can just unbolt the +ve terminal and the lead/fuse can be moved out of the way you you need to do more - should become clear when you start to remove it.

You should get a battery with a vent but I don't think it really needs to be an AGM as you have protection within the cabin as the boot is sealed off, unlike the RX for example.

Thanks for that Colin it did exactly as you said I took of the fuse brkt and tied it to one of holding lugs and same with earth and put a rubber glove on cables just to be sure went straight in

and even the headlights seem brighter the old Battery never went above 12.2 v even though i had charged it up with smart charger

the new Battery was 12.7 when i put it on not checked since

Robert

steve2006 · October 24, 2020

I had to have a new Battery on my Vivaro van a couple of months ago, just died in a supermarket car park. RAC checked Battery initially and said it was OK. Got van started and left running but wouldn’t restart.

New Battery £240.00 due to being gel type stop start....gone are the days of an £80.00 replacement.

Bluesman · October 24, 2020

£80 That's all I paid at Lexus Reading about a year ago.

Prince Bob · October 24, 2020

Paid £226 at Lexus Woodford, last week, nobody else on the planet could provide the same Battery for less

westo3 · October 27, 2020

On 10/24/2020 at 10:49 PM, Prince Bob said:

Paid £226 at Lexus Woodford, last week, nobody else on the planet could provide the same battery for less

That is an excellent price Lexus Twickenham quoted £297 fitted!! Unless a Battery for a GS300h phase 1V is more expensive?

jumbojake · October 27, 2020

£202 for a GS phase4 .. see LPD ... I couldn't beat their price for my Rx450h Battery.. worth a look, I've found they sometimes waive the postage if the order value is high enough

KayCee · October 28, 2020

11 hours ago, jumbojake said:

£202 for a GS phase4 .. see LPD ... I couldn't beat their price for my Rx450h battery.. worth a look, I've found they sometimes waive the postage if the order value is high enough

I too got my Battery From LexusPartsDirect was 202 +5 for delivery got it in two days and all is well

However i Decided to try the Repair Mode on the old Battery Which was only 18 month old I kept it on for 24hr in the repair mode and is still at 12.7 after 3 days Not on the car I did a bit more research and found that our US cousins are having same problem and they have a TSB for this concerning the Gateway ECU and have replaced that with a updated ECU its behind glove box ( i have not checked Mine) but my car is into Sheffield on 2 Nov for the Fuel Pump recall so i shall ask them about this ECU

Num is 89100 30181 now i dont know if this is affecting UK models but there are loads for sale on the Site that most of us use

I hope I havent bought a Battery that i Dont need

the drain should be 10 to 20 milliamps if its over 50 milamps there were changing them under warranty so i dont know if this affects us the years in question are 2012 to 2014

Robert

royoftherovers · October 28, 2020

1 hour ago, KayCee said:

I too got my Battery From LexusPartsDirect was 202 +5 for delivery got it in two days and all is well

However i Decided to try the Repair Mode on the old Battery Which was only 18 month old I kept it on for 24hr in the repair mode and is still at 12.7 after 3 days Not on the car I did a bit more research and found that our US cousins are having same problem and they have a TSB for this concerning the Gateway ECU and have replaced that with a updated ECU its behind glove box ( i have not checked Mine) but my car is into Sheffield on 2 Nov for the Fuel Pump recall so i shall ask them about this ECU

Num is 89100 30181 now i dont know if this is affecting UK models but there are loads for sale on the Site that most of us use

I hope I havent bought a Battery that i Dont need

the drain should be 10 to 20 milliamps if its over 50 milamps there were changing them under warranty so i dont know if this affects us the years in question are 2012 to 2014

Robert

Robert, if the old Battery was only 18 months old, why was it not replaced under warranty ?

KayCee · October 28, 2020

John

I tried that at Sheffield Russell the parts manager said that Battery only as a 12 month warranty and so did the service manager i Thought like you it was a 3 year warranty

However the Battery that i got from LPD as a 3 year warranty

so rarther than chase round woods as i got car from Sidcup i just got a new one i fraered being stranded as it was certain it would let me down.

Robert

royoftherovers · October 28, 2020

Nice try then Robert. I would have told them that the warranty they are referring to is wholly irrelevant. If a Battery has only lasted that long, then clearly it was not fit for purpose, so replace it free of charge or I will write to your Dealer Principal who will I am certain be fully conversant with the Consumer Rights Act of 2015.

Keep that in your Locker matey. There are a lot of crooks out there.

Just wait until RICHIE READS THIS !

Shahpor · October 28, 2020

3 hours ago, KayCee said:

my car is into Sheffield on 2 Nov for the Fuel Pump recall so i shall ask them about this ECU

Hi Robert,

Could you elaborate on this please?

Thanks.

KayCee · October 29, 2020

Hi Shahpor

Yes i got a email from Lexus UK telling me that my car as got a safety recall and to contact my Lexus Dealer when i contacted them they said yes its for the low pressure fuel pump and we have them in bring it in on Nov 2 make sure you have only quarter tank as we have to take rear seats out to get to it.

They have been changing them in the US for months and also filling car up with fuel too that was on the TSB wether they do that here i dont Know

Apparently the fuel pump shuts off and engine stalls for a few seconds then restarts i dont think it might not be too bad for Hybrids but normal engines i bet it would be quite Hairy

Thats all i know about it though

Sheffield said they have done a few

HTH

Robert

KayCee · October 29, 2020

Also Ref the Gateway ECU the yanks have been changing batteries thinking they were gone and it as been The gateway ECU initiating Battery drain apparentley there was some bad ECU so TSB said to change same with updated one 89100 30181 and this supposedly cured it as far as i can see in the comments the drain According to them should be 10 to 20 milliamps if it is over 50 milli amps it is suspect

I thought it may not apply to UK cars but Russell the parts man at Sheffield said during the lockdown we have had big run on batteries S0....................

i will try and find post for it on US site but google that part num it may come up

Robert

KayCee · October 29, 2020

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwioh_KxqdnsAhU2VBUIHc6gBZkQFjAKegQICxAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.clublexus.com%2Fforums%2Fgs-4th-gen-2013-present%2F893694-diagram-to-replace-multiplex-body-computer-diagram.htmlusg=AOvVaw3bPCOETpmy-4FQKJboAIhA

This is link

Sorry i dont think the link works just google Part num

Shahpor · October 29, 2020

2 hours ago, KayCee said:

Hi Shahpor

Yes i got a email from Lexus UK telling me that my car as got a safety recall and to contact my Lexus Dealer when i contacted them they said yes its for the low pressure fuel pump and we have them in bring it in on Nov 2 make sure you have only quarter tank as we have to take rear seats out to get to it.

They have been changing them in the US for months and also filling car up with fuel too that was on the TSB wether they do that here i dont Know

Apparently the fuel pump shuts off and engine stalls for a few seconds then restarts i dont think it might not be too bad for Hybrids but normal engines i bet it would be quite Hairy

Thats all i know about it though

Sheffield said they have done a few

HTH

Robert

Thanks for the info Robert.

I wonder if it only affects certain years as I haven't heard anything about my 2013 model.

Anyway, thanks again and sorry for slight detour of your thread

johnatg · October 29, 2020

Applies to cars produced 2005-2014

See here:

https://car-recalls.eu/recall/lexus-gs450h-2005-2014/

westo3 · October 29, 2020

4 hours ago, KayCee said:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwioh_KxqdnsAhU2VBUIHc6gBZkQFjAKegQICxAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.clublexus.com%2Fforums%2Fgs-4th-gen-2013-present%2F893694-diagram-to-replace-multiplex-body-computer-diagram.htmlusg=AOvVaw3bPCOETpmy-4FQKJboAIhA

This is link

Sorry i dont think the link works just google Part num

Do you ( or anybody else) know if this part was upgraded on later models or are Lexus still churning out dodgy ECUs?

westo3 · November 1, 2020

To answer my own post! I assume anything after 2014 should be Ok. I have now got a new Battery installed and was wondering how long it can go without having to re-charge it ie. leaving it at the airport etc. I find it unbelievable that a car at this level in price, luxury and renown reliability should have such a week spot that you cannot leave it unattended for any length of time! I still love it but it beggars belief! Do all hybrids suffer from the same problem?

Herbie · November 1, 2020

26 minutes ago, westo3 said:

To answer my own post! I assume anything after 2014 should be Ok. I have now got a new battery installed and was wondering how long it can go without having to re-charge it ie. leaving it at the airport etc. I find it unbelievable that a car at this level in price, luxury and renown reliability should have such a week spot that you cannot leave it unattended for any length of time! I still love it but it beggars belief! Do all hybrids suffer from the same problem?

Short answer, yes, they do (Toy/Lex anyway) - but it's not a 'problem' or something wrong, it's by design.

A conventional car has a starter motor that will draw 300A or more when it's cranking the engine. A hybrid doesn't have a starter motor and it only takes less than 20A to boot the computers and get the hybrid system into READY mode.

Given the above, there's no need to have a hulking great 12V Battery in the car, which benefits the manufacturer in two ways.

Firstly, it's obviously cheaper to provide smaller 12V batteries so there's a cost saving.

Secondly, being lower capacity also means it weighs less than its larger brothers, which helps to keep down the overall weight of the car, which lowers the emissions, which helps to meet the strict criteria set by various governments.

Neither aspect means much to us as individual car owners (apart from the inconvenience of a small Battery going flat sooner than a larger one would), but when taken over hundreds of thousands of cars you begin to see the logic behind their decision.

All we have to do as the drivers and owners of hybrid cars is to be aware of the situation and either use the car more or at the very least, keep a jump start battery pack such as this one in the car ready for such times as needed.

EDIT: Sorry, I forgot to answer your question as to how long you can leave the car, say at the airport. Given that it's a brand new Battery, possibly three or four weeks? Not really sure to be honest, which is why I have one of the jump start Battery packs. If you can find out the quiescent current draw of the car (that's the current that supplies the alarm, radio presets, clock and suchlike when the rest of the car is asleep) you can actually calculate a reasonably accurate answer. However, it would be subject to change so you couldn't really rely on it anyway, so just buy a Battery pack for peace of mind.