Hi to everybody

Alan172 · October 9, 2020

Hi there. Not a Lexus owner quite yet, but now that I've settled on the GS 450h as my next car, I'm hoping to be sitting in the driver's seat sometime soon.

I'm currently in conversation with a dealer who has a very clean 2006 SE-L model (with sunroof) that he received very recently as a trade-in. Full Lexus Service History, near faultless MOT history, 2 owners and 90,000mls.

Are the prices for these all over the place though? I've seen a few advertised around the £3,000-£4,000 bracket, but the dealer is looking for £7,000 which seems a little steep compared to online valuations of the car, and other cars of the same vintage, mileage etc. However, it does look really tidy. Almost new in fact. Does that warrant the asking price? What do you peeps in the know think?

Many thanks, Alan

Mossypossy · October 9, 2020

Bear in mind that the car will be 15 next year and so Lexus hybrid Battery guarantee will then be unavailable to you.

Touch expensive. For that I would expect exhaust system to be excellent, all tyres excellent and good makes, evidence that shocks were not original.

royoftherovers · October 9, 2020

30 minutes ago, Mossypossy said:

Bear in mind that the car will be 15 next year and so Lexus hybrid battery guarantee will then be unavailable to you.

Touch expensive. For that I would expect exhaust system to be excellent, all tyres excellent and good makes, evidence that shocks were not original.

If it is from a Lexus Dealer, I`d think that £5500/6000 would be the max I`d pay

If not, Steve`s comments above are not to be ignored and I would offer £4500/4750.

Bear in mind that a Motor Trader is required by Law to be responsible for correcting and paying for significant problems should they arise within 6 months of purchase.

Please keep us all informed of what you do.

Alan172 · October 9, 2020

2 hours ago, Mossypossy said:

Bear in mind that the car will be 15 next year and so Lexus hybrid battery guarantee will then be unavailable to you.

Touch expensive. For that I would expect exhaust system to be excellent, all tyres excellent and good makes, evidence that shocks were not original.

Thanks for the reply.

Dealer said yesterday that the 'exhaust pipes' are in excellent condition. That sounds more like the tips to me come to think of it...but I can check that with him.

Tyres are all Michelin Pilots with 6mm tread remaining. No mention of anything suspension related, good or bad, other than the last MOT being done 300 miles ago by main Lexus dealership, with no advisories. The Battery has apparently had a clean bill of health by Lexus too if that means anything.

Thanks.

Alan172 · October 9, 2020

2 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

If it is from a Lexus Dealer, I`d think that £5500/6000 would be the max I`d pay

If not, Steve`s comments above are not to be ignored and I would offer £4500/4750.

Bear in mind that a Motor Trader is required by Law to be responsible for correcting and paying for significant problems should they arise within 6 months of purchase.

Please keep us all informed of what you do.

Not a Lexus dealership, but he sells all high end stuff. Ferrari, Bentley etc.

Steve's comments are very much appreciated. Any help at all to prevent me from being stung 'again'! Not having much luck in that department recently.

Will definitely keep you informed. If I don't buy this one, I'll get one eventually, so I'll be around here for a while yet.

Thanks.

Alan172 · October 9, 2020

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Edited October 9, 2020 by Alan172
Mistake made. Sorry.

Alan172 · October 11, 2020

Hi again.

Just wanted to post an update. The dealer wouldn't budge from the £7,000 he wanted for the 2006 450h he was selling on eBay, so that has fallen through. I was also looking at a private sale on eBay. It had damage to paint on rear o/s panel, but otherwise looked lovely. However, figuring in the cost of the paintwork correction and delivery, on top of the £6,000 the seller wouldn't budge from, I had to back out of that one too.

Additionally, I've since spent about 4 hours today looking at the 450h in more detail, both on here, and elsewhere. It would appear that the cars I'm looking at buying, 2006-2009, are on borrowed time with the traction Battery, and maybe a few other things that I wasn't aware of 6 hours ago. With a heavy heart, I'm now thinking I need to move away from this model if I'm to avoid ruining myself in the near future with crippling repair bills that could come out of the blue at any time, and without warning.

Just want to thank those members who provided guidance in my short time spent here. It was very much appreciated.

Regards,

Alan

Mossypossy · October 11, 2020

The borrowed time thing is not really fair to level at the traction Battery.

For Lexus to guarantee it for 15 years and unlimited miles means they have some faith in them.

Few have actually failed and there are other options if it does go.

Rather have that potential failure than say a dsg box!

royoftherovers · October 11, 2020

Well said Steve. If his heart is not in it, there is no point in pursuing a lost cause.

If he wanted a Lexus, he would either look to increase his budget or wait a little longer until the right one turns up.

If I were to sell mine, a 2010 Gen 3 SE with 62,000 on the clock and a F.L.S.H. and all Hybrid Certs, then in a private sale it would go for £7500 max. I am not selling. But it would be ideal for Alan !

I have yet to read/hear of a Lexus EVT box failing and as you say ,compare that with the DSG rubbish that comes from the VW Group vehicles. All Mercs have CVT Boxes in their A and B . Class models and they are awful.

Toyota Prius with mileages in excess of 400,000 have not had problems with their EVT Boxes either.

Lexus Hybrid batteries are as reliable as the Toyota Hybrids which have been outstanding and the vast majority, if not all, of Gen 3 Lexus GS Models which have given trouble have NOT been maintained by, nor purchased from, Authorised Lexus Dealers.

Think again Alan and take a broader view, if you want a Lexus..

Spacewagon52 · October 11, 2020

I had reservations about the CVT box, but I find it excellent in the 400h. Yes the sound deadening must help, but the progress is so smooth. I do not dislike the RX 300 box but the acceleration is far more linear with the CVT. I can put up with the roar of the lion!

Alan172 · October 11, 2020

4 hours ago, Mossypossy said:

The borrowed time thing is not really fair to level at the traction battery.

For Lexus to guarantee it for 15 years and unlimited miles means they have some faith in them.

Few have actually failed and there are other options if it does go.

Rather have that potential failure than say a dsg box!

Please see below Steve...

2 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

Well said Steve. If his heart is not in it, there is no point in pursuing a lost cause.

If he wanted a Lexus, he would either look to increase his budget or wait a little longer until the right one turns up.

If I were to sell mine, a 2010 Gen 3 SE with 62,000 on the clock and a F.L.S.H. and all Hybrid Certs, then in a private sale it would go for £7500 max. I am not selling. But it would be ideal for Alan !

I have yet to read/hear of a Lexus EVT box failing and as you say ,compare that with the DSG rubbish that comes from the VW Group vehicles. All Mercs have CVT Boxes in their A and B . Class models and they are awful.

Toyota Prius with mileages in excess of 400,000 have not had problems with their EVT Boxes either.

Lexus Hybrid batteries are as reliable as the Toyota Hybrids which have been outstanding and the vast majority, if not all, of Gen 3 Lexus GS Models which have given trouble have NOT been maintained by, nor purchased from, Authorised Lexus Dealers.

Think again Alan and take a broader view, if you want a Lexus..

Thanks again for your input guys. Please let me explain where I'm coming from with this.

I retired last year with spinal issues. I'm 53, and have always loved cars, especially shall we say, the retro years. I own a 1992 500SL that is my pride and joy, but only use it April to September. I decided to go down the retro route for my everyday car too, thinking I could tinker with it at weekends to keep me busy. So I bought a 1993 Audi 80 2.6E Saloon, but rather than being a source of joy, it has turned out to be a money pit, and a source of misery...and it's still not running right!

Anyway, I took the decision to look for something newer instead, and sell the Audi on. I've been weighing up 7-series Beemers, Jag XK and XF's and then the Lexus GS300 and GS450h. The 450h came out head and shoulders above everything else, for several reasons, and seemed to tick pretty much every box I wanted ticking. The only issue I suppose is me knowing absolutely nothing about hybrids. When I looked deeper into potential issues for the 450h, all I was seeing was doom and gloom. You know how it goes, you do a search on Google, and you get pretty much exactly what you asked for. In my case, loads of pound signs!

The last thing I want is to go from a relatively (in my mind at least) medium sized money pit (the Audi) to a much larger money pit (the 450h), and that seemed to be what was staring me in the face. I'm not rolling in money, but I would like to invest in a nice car that I can hopefully keep for many years. Something nice to look back on when I'm too dangerous to get behind the wheel any more!

I've had a heavy heart for most of the day after reading the things I've read about the 450h. I had previously had the impression that Toyota, and hence Lexus, were the reliable choice, and I guess it was just a bit of a shock to see the cost involved in what appeared to be, an almost inevitable issue with the older (and I suppose all) 450h cars regarding Battery life. You guys undoubtedly know Lexus far better than I, and I guess I've been spooked by the stories I came across this morning, but I really don't want to give up on the 450h dream. I love the look of the car, and can only imagine what they feel like to drive. The SL with it's 5 litre V8 is great fun, especially topless, but it's not an everyday car. Please, to keep me on the right track, and away from Beemers, could you guys lay out what my options would be if the Battery, inverter or timing chain were to go pear shaped? If there's any other 'issues' you think I might be about to get paranoid about, please chip in on that too. The more I understand, the better I will inevitably feel, and then I can maybe stop pestering you all so much.

By the way, I've no idea what a dsg box is Steve! Sorry.

Alan

royoftherovers · October 11, 2020

Many thanks for all of that Alan.

Please send me a PM including links to the press items which depressed you or email me at jp.williams@live.com

I`m off to bed now but will respond once I have read what ever you send me.

Where abouts in Fife are you ?

Alan172 · October 11, 2020

1 minute ago, royoftherovers said:

Many thanks for all of that Alan.

Please send me a PM including links to the press items which depressed you or email me at jp.williams@live.com

I`m off to bed now but will respond once I have read what ever you send me.

Where abouts in Fife are you ?

Yeah, agreed, it's getting late. Pretty much ready for bed myself.

I'm not sure if I'll be able to find them easily, but I'll have a look at some point tomorrow John. Most of them were on the forum I believe, it's just remembering the search terms. My memory is awful due to my bloody pain killers. It does my head in!

I'm in Glenrothes (the nice end!)

Have a good night. Hopefully speak tomorrow.

Alan

Spacewagon52 · October 12, 2020

Buying your FIRST Lexus is very scary ..... I remember! Your heart is in your mouth wondering what will go wrong with an older car. Yes, we can all buy a lemon, even a Lexus but overall they are more reliable than people realise. If they do go wrong, it is usually one thing. Yes, that can be expensive and there are some known issues on some models that remedial action can be taken to prevent catastrophic failure. Once an issue is sorted you rarely get others occurring straight away.

If you want a premium brand then you must expect to pay premium prices for parts but a Lexus car is one that you can run successfully at modest cost. I would NEVER (have owned some) again buy an older BMW, VW, Volvo or consider a Merc. I am now on my fourth Lexus - I still have THREE on the drive - and yes we all get a bit twitchy with older cars. My advice would be to buy something that will not break the bank. If it turns out to be a lemon then you can get rid of it and not lose too much money.

Unless you are very unlucky (and some members on here have been BUT still buy another one!) you will be bitten by the quality and engineering. You can always be safe and buy an older Avensis / Camry with a low mileage. Hybrids ARE scary, as the technology is amazing but also complicated. I have an RX 400h and an RX 300. The 300 is a straight V6 and is less likely to go wrong but fuel consumption is heavy compared with my 400h hybrid. You have your Merc baby and want something that stands out as well. A Lexus would be what I would go for and the GS 450h looks a cracking car. Dip your toe in, don't spend too much and have LOW expectations of your purchase ........... I hope you will be pleasantly surprised.

Good luck.

royoftherovers · October 12, 2020

David, a really helpful post, but is this not a contradiction in terms, matey....."The 300 is a straight V6"

Is it a straight six or is it a V6 ?

Spacewagon52 · October 12, 2020

1 minute ago, royoftherovers said:

David, a really helpful post, but is this not a contradiction in terms, matey....."The 300 is a straight V6"

Is it a straight six or is it a V6 ?

Are you being pedantic John?

I will clarify, the RX 300 has a V6 engine, it is straightforward no hybrid Battery or extra electronics associated with a hybrid. Sorry to confuse you, no it is NOT a straight 6 engine, it is a V6 engine - just that it is straightforward, no fancy bits!

royoftherovers · October 12, 2020

Thanks Davey. You are not the first person to call me pedantic !

I am being correct. It is either straight or it is a V. It cannot be both.........officer !

Next time I am down your way, I`ll let you know and you can buy the first pint.

I was in Whitstable in 1966, I think and enjoyed food and drink in The Long Reach Tavern.

And I was at The Open at Sandwich for two consecutive days in 2003.

I was not there however, to meet St Augustine when he landed in Kent in 597.

Have a great day and until we next "meet", Vaya con Dios, amigo.

royoftherovers · October 12, 2020

13 hours ago, Alan172 said:

Yeah, agreed, it's getting late. Pretty much ready for bed myself.

I'm not sure if I'll be able to find them easily, but I'll have a look at some point tomorrow John. Most of them were on the forum I believe, it's just remembering the search terms. My memory is awful due to my bloody pain killers. It does my head in!

I'm in Glenrothes (the nice end!)

Have a good night. Hopefully speak tomorrow.

Alan

Hi Alan, you can phone or Skype (after 2pm) me if that would help

Please email me at jp.williams@live.com and I will send you contact details

Alan172 · October 12, 2020

52 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Hi Alan, you can phone or Skype (after 2pm) me if that would help

Please email me at jp.williams@live.com and I will send you contact details

Afternoon John.

Thanks for that. Would love to talk to you about the car, so that would be excellent. I only have Google Duo on my phone's/tablet, but I'll download Skype, and see if I can figure out how to use it! As you can probably tell, I'm great with techy stuff. Why can't we just have kept Windows 95 for everything! Unfortunately, I'm unsure when I'll be able to contact you. Taking my 94 year old Mum down to Rothes Halls for her Flu jab at 2:30pm, and then back to her house for a coffee and choccie biscuit! Will email you shortly though, and we can arrange a time to Skype. Thanks very much for this.

Also, if Steve is looking in, could you elaborate please on what the options were that you mentioned about the traction Battery in the event of any failure? Would love to hear your views. Thanks in advance Steve 👍

Spacewagon52 · October 12, 2020

1 hour ago, royoftherovers said:

Thanks Davey. You are not the first person to call me pedantic !

I am being correct. It is either straight or it is a V. It cannot be both.........officer !

Next time I am down your way, I`ll let you know and you can buy the first pint.

I was in Whitstable in 1966, I think and enjoyed food and drink in The Long Reach Tavern.

And I was at The Open at Sandwich for two consecutive days in 2003.

I was not there however, to meet St Augustine when he landed in Kent in 597.

Have a great day and until we next "meet", Vaya con Dios, amigo.

Pedantic or not I still enjoy your posts John!

Spacewagon52 · October 12, 2020

5 minutes ago, Alan172 said:

Also, if Steve is looking in, could you elaborate please on what the options were that you mentioned about the traction battery in the event of any failure? Would love to hear your views. Thanks in advance Steve 👍

Steve or Colin will know more than me but it is usually one cell that goes. There is a guy on here who will replace individual cells at a fraction of the cost of a new Battery. So don't get too twitchy about the traction Battery.

royoftherovers · October 12, 2020

3 minutes ago, Spacewagon52 said:

Steve or Colin will know more than me but it is usually one cell that goes. There is a guy on here who will replace individual cells at a fraction of the cost of a new battery. So don't get too twitchy about the traction battery.

Davey, are you referring to Richard of HYBRID BATTERY SOLUTIONS? https://www.hybridbatterysolutions.co.uk/

royoftherovers · October 12, 2020

I will await your email Alan.

Alan172 · October 12, 2020

20 minutes ago, Spacewagon52 said:

Steve or Colin will know more than me but it is usually one cell that goes. There is a guy on here who will replace individual cells at a fraction of the cost of a new battery. So don't get too twitchy about the traction battery.

Hi David.

That would be a huge gamechanger for me if this can be done. I had no idea! That's the reason forums like this are so amazing.

I'll look into this at the weekend. I see John's stuck a link up for the company responsible. Awesome!

Thackeray · October 12, 2020

16 hours ago, Alan172 said:

The only issue I suppose is me knowing absolutely nothing about hybrids. When I looked deeper into potential issues for the 450h, all I was seeing was doom and gloom. You know how it goes, you do a search on Google, and you get pretty much exactly what you asked for. In my case, loads of pound signs!

The last thing I want is to go from a relatively (in my mind at least) medium sized money pit (the Audi) to a much larger money pit (the 450h), and that seemed to be what was staring me in the face. I'm not rolling in money, but I would like to invest in a nice car that I can hopefully keep for many years. Something nice to look back on when I'm too dangerous to get behind the wheel any more!

One of the reasons I got a hybrid Lexus was the mechanical simplicity of the hybrid system. It has no starter, no clutch, no torque converter, no gearbox (in the sense of something that changes physical gears) no separate alternator. Instead it has two electric motors and in my experience electric motors are typically very reliable. It has a permanently engaged set of cogs (in a planetary gearset) that directly link one of the electric motors to the rear wheels via a driveshaft and a differential. (At least that's how the IS300h works and I think the GS is also rear wheel drive.)

So all those things that might go wrong on conventional cars are simply not there.

What it does have is some clever computer programmes controlling how fast the electric motors turn. But electronics don't have the physical wear that mechanical components have. So the expectation of mechanical reliability was one of the things that persuaded me to go for the IS300h.

You say you know nothing about hybrids and I can't tell if you're just being modest!

But just in case you haven't seen this before this is the best page I've seen for explaining how the gears work. The transmission is sometimes called a CVT, an eCVT, a power split device (PSD) and perhaps some other names that I can't remember. But have a look at the graphic at the bottom of the page to see how it works - (you may have to allow Adobe Flash to run) . It shows how simple the transmission is.

When these cars were first launched there was obviously a concern about how expensive the batteries would be to replace. But with the pressure to switch to all-electric cars, the cost of batteries has been falling sharply for the past 10 years or so. In 2010 batteries cost around $1,000 per kwh but the cost is now down to around $150 per kwh and is expected to fall still further to around $100 per kwh in the next two or three years. At the same time, experience has shown that on average the Toyota/Lexus hybrid batteries have been quite long lasting.

By contrast, if you stick to a similar age conventional car you have to wonder how much it would cost to repair or replace a conventional gearbox or torque converter. My thinking when I chose my current car was that Battery prices would continue falling but I couldn't see mechanical gearboxes, clutches, torque converters and so on getting any cheaper to fix.