RX400H lost all drive. Won’t start

[Xane]

Hi all, some help please. Lexus RX400H. It has lost drive and won’t start. It was misfiring before it died. It was run low on fuel to empty. I’ve put 10 litres of fuel in and it still won’t start. Techstream shows the following codes.

[Herbie]

First of all I think you need to put more than 10 litres in - I think you need about 3 gallons, which is about 13 or 14 litres.

Secondly, how many attempts to start it have you made? I'm almost certain that I remember reading somewhere that if you are unsuccessful more than 3 times, the hybrid system locks out and the dealer has to reset it.

I'll try to find the info I'm thinking of but you could try a general googling in the meantime.

EDIT:

If I'm correct about it having to go to a dealer to be reset, make sure it goes on a flat-bed and not towed. If it is towed it can cause all sorts of grief with the hybrid Battery and the motor/generators.

[sergeigto]

Need at least another 10L of fuel (if the car sits level) , then reset fault codes and it should start no problem 

I had same issue 

These cars don't like low fuel 

[JeffL]

On 10/7/2020 at 6:40 PM, Herbie said:

First of all I think you need to put more than 10 litres in - I think you need about 3 gallons, which is about 13 or 14 litres.

Secondly, how many attempts to start it have you made? I'm almost certain that I remember reading somewhere that if you are unsuccessful more than 3 times, the hybrid system locks out and the dealer has to reset it.

I'll try to find the info I'm thinking of but you could try a general googling in the meantime.

EDIT:

If I'm correct about it having to go to a dealer to be reset, make sure it goes on a flat-bed and not towed. If it is towed it can cause all sorts of grief with the hybrid battery and the motor/generators.

Herbs, does that apply to all hybrids, that they should never be towed?

[Herbie]

19 minutes ago, JeffL said:

Herbs, does that apply to all hybrids, that they should never be towed?

I don't know for sure Jeff but I would think so, or at least all Toyota/Lexus, because of how the motor/generator are linked to the wheels and HV Battery.

[ColinBarber]

2 hours ago, JeffL said:

Herbs, does that apply to all hybrids, that they should never be towed?

The drive wheels should never be allowed to rotate when towing. So the GS300h/450h for example should have the rear wheels off the ground. For the RX400h and RX450h all wheels need to be off as there are motors driving all the wheels.

[PCM]

On 10/7/2020 at 6:28 PM, Xane said:

Hi all, some help please. Lexus RX400H. It has lost drive and won’t start. It was misfiring before it died. It was run low on fuel to empty. I’ve put 10 litres of fuel in and it still won’t start. Techstream shows the following codes.

Any progress, 'Xane'?

[Herbie]

20 minutes ago, PCM said:

Any progress, 'Xane'?

Sadly not Piers - he's posted in our 'sister' group on Facebook and had a few suggestions but no joy so far. He says that the engine will run lumpy for a few seconds and then still cuts out.

The hybrid system seems to be alright because he's getting READY on the dash but no joy with engine running.

[PCM]

Oh dear. I wonder if there's a good independent the car can be 'taken' to?

It sounds like it would like to start, but cannot...

Drain the tank, clean and refill?

Flush the fuel system?

Flooded fuel system?

As you can see, I am no expert, but wish 'Xane' well.

[Britprius]

17 hours ago, Herbie said:

He says that the engine will run lumpy for a few seconds and then still cuts out.

It's quite possible the engine is still not starting, and he is being confused by the hybrid system spinning the engine at speed to try to start the engine. It seems most if not all the Toyota/Lexus hybrids need a considerable amount of fuel to be added after running out of fuel. The Prius for instance needs 3 gallons "14 ltrs" of fuel to be added before the computer recognises that fuel has been added.

John.

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, Britprius said:

Toyota/Lexus hybrids need a considerable amount of fuel to be added after running out of fuel. The Prius for instance needs 3 gallons "14 ltrs" of fuel to be added before the computer recognises that fuel has been added.

He's done that John, he says there's now about half a tank in but still no joy.

[ColinBarber]

If the system cannot start the petrol engine, after a few attempts it will lock out to protect the entire hybrid system. You need to put in fuel and reset the error codes, especially P0A0F. It is possible that may need to be done more that once if the engine is being difficult to start.

If you aren't able to clear the errors (should be able to if you are using tech stream) then disconnect the Battery for 30 seconds.

[Herbie]

For anyone who is on Facebook this is Xane's post over there.

Apparently he's done all that @ColinBarber and still no joy.

I remembered something about running out of petrol and continuing to run on traction Battery alone can cause a lockout that only a dealer can reset, but because he's getting the READY light on I don't think it can be that.

[Xane]

All,

Very sorry for not coming back to any of you on this. I expected to get email notification when someone replies to my post and I did not so I thought no one had responded.

@Herbie - Thank you for people updated

And thank you all for your suggestions.

Current state of affairs is as follows: 

The car was towed to a mechanic who replaced a spark plug and cleaned the fuel injectors to clear the deposits within them (soaked and backfed them in his words). The car ran fine for maybe 50-100 miles and then started to misfire again. We have decided to replace all the fuel injectors. I have bought used fuel injectors from an eBay seller in Lithuania (will take a few weeks to arrive, if anyone knows a quicker way please shout) because new ones cost a fortune. Once the new injectors are in we should be ok. 

Thank you again.

 

[Ken Crawley]

If it fails again, DO NOT TOW it to your mechanic. Damage can be caused to the Hybrid/ generator system. Hybrid driving wheels need to be off the road if towed. Refer to your handbook.

[Xane]

On 11/11/2020 at 4:33 PM, Ken Crawley said:

If it fails again, DO NOT TOW it to your mechanic. Damage can be caused to the Hybrid/ generator system. Hybrid driving wheels need to be off the road if towed. Refer to your handbook.

 It was lifted on a flatbed. Poor choice of language on my part. Thank you

[Xane]

Had the injectors replaced today and the car seems to be running fine. Fingers crossed it stays that way. Thank you all for your contributions. 

[Spacewagon52]

12 hours ago, Xane said:

Had the injectors replaced today and the car seems to be running fine. Fingers crossed it stays that way. Thank you all for your contributions. 

Good news! Do you mind me asking what they charged to do that? Independent or Lexus garage?

[Xane]

4 hours ago, Spacewagon52 said:

Good news! Do you mind me asking what they charged to do that? Independent or Lexus garage?

It was done by a friend and I got a good price. Can pass on details if you need them and after running it by him. 

 

[Spacewagon52]

2 hours ago, Xane said:

It was done by a friend and I got a good price. Can pass on details if you need them and after running it by him. 

 

No that is fine, just wondered what a garage would charge.

[Barry14UK]

I had lost firing on one of 6 cylinders on an Opel Commodore GSE Coupe many years ago.  Easy in those days  to check which one without tools.  I just pulled plug leads one at a time until I found the cylinder that didn't cause further deterioration in tick over.  Plug was OK so good chance it was injector.  I replaced this and all was well again.  I had it in mind to take all 6 injectors to a Bosch Centre, for cleaning and resetting if I had further trouble but got away with replacing the one. Are injectors serviceable nowadays?

[Grey RX]

After fuel system problems with another car I started using Shell V Power in my RX450H to try to help avoid injector problems.  I'm not sure it will make any difference but at least I feel better about it.  The car has just passed 100k miles so I will probably be stuck with it until it is scrapped now so want to defer that event as long as possible. 

[Xane]

On 11/16/2020 at 5:31 PM, Spacewagon52 said:

No that is fine, just wondered what a garage would charge.

About 3 hours Labour is reasonable. Hope that helps. 

[Xane]

Just an update - the car was still misbehaving a bit. It turned out that the faulty injectors were dumping fuel into the crankshaft (I believe?) and the oil was a bit contaminated. This in turn would foul the spark plugs. 

An oil change was required as well and now the car is running well after 250 miles. 

[Herbie]

Glad it's finally sorted Xane and thanks for letting us know.