12v battery charger with power pack recommendations?

bfgqueen · October 3, 2020

Hi all

After my Battery died for the second time last night (after 2 weeks of not being driven) on my year old CT200h f sport, I am looking for a good charger. I wanted to buy cTek, but they all seem to need a 240v mains supply. I live in a block of flats with no access to a mains socket near the car. I have been considering the NOCO power pack charger, but am unsure if this would be the best choice, and they have so many models to choose from I don't know which one I would need, as I am not a techie. Does anyone have a recommendation for a small, portable powerpack charger/jump starter that doesn't need a mains supply and is the same sort of size as the cTek/NOCO?

Thanks in advance

royoftherovers · October 3, 2020

I bought one of these. Just need to charge it up every 3 months or so.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08C7VH9BL/ref=dp_prsubs_2

PCM · October 3, 2020

7 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

I bought one of these. Just need to charge it up every 3 months or so.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08C7VH9BL/ref=dp_prsubs_2

+1

And they DO work - I had to use mine ( on my wife's RX350... )

bfgqueen · October 3, 2020

Thanks both - this looks just the job - and cheaper than the one I was looking at! I have popped it into my basket 🙂

Many thanks again for the helpful replies.

BoutTime · October 3, 2020

What's interesting about the hybrids is that a traditional powerpack is surely overkill. As it's not required to turn over a starter motor but just power the computers and display.

NemesisUK · October 3, 2020

I was also thinking this..

I have a 3000mAh power bank (for my phones and camera ) and wondered whether this might also work to 'jump' start the RC300h? It has 2x 3A/5v outputs.

royoftherovers · October 3, 2020

3 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

I was also thinking this..

I have a 3000mAh power bank (for my phones and camera ) and wondered whether this might also work to 'jump' start the RC300h? It has 2x 3A/5v outputs.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained, but ask Herbie first !

ColinBarber · October 3, 2020

59 minutes ago, BoutTime said:

What's interesting about the hybrids is that a traditional powerpack is surely overkill. As it's not required to turn over a starter motor but just power the computers and display.

Yes but all the automotive power packs are made to turn over an engine. If you can find one that is just for hybrids then it would be ideal.

39 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

I was also thinking this..

I have a 3000mAh power bank (for my phones and camera ) and wondered whether this might also work to 'jump' start the RC300h? It has 2x 3A/5v outputs.

It won't be because you need an output within the 12.8 to 14.4 volts range and can supply that voltage at around 20 Amps.

BoutTime · October 3, 2020

26 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

Yes but all the automotive power packs are made to turn over an engine. If you can find one that is just for hybrids then it would be ideal.

It won't be because you need an output within the 12.8 to 14.4 volts range and can supply that voltage at around 20 Amps.

The one linked was for 8ltr petrol and diesel engines. So it might at least be cheaper to go for something suitable for a smaller engine instead.

Herbie · October 3, 2020

First of all, to Heather, I completely agree with what you've been told by the others. These jump start Battery packs are excellent and work really well and they also hold their charge well too. After 6 months mine still had somewhere between 100 and 75% left - I don't know for sure as mine doesn't have a percentage readout, just four LEDs that were still all lit.

Secondly, yes, a smaller, lower-power unit would be plenty good enough for use with hybrids so if you could find one, maybe you could save a bit of money.

It's been a long time since I looked into this so I may well be wrong but, if I remember correctly, I looked at the discharge curves for a pack of 8 AA batteries and found that they should be able to supply approximately 28A for less than one minute. My RX450h takes less than 20A to attain READY mode so yes, in theory at least, you could even start the car with a pack of 8 AA batteries.

However, speaking in general terms it really boils down to what sort of person you are I suppose - helpful or not.

We know that you should never use a hybrid to try to jump start another car, but I would feel very uncomfortable in refusing to help someone who was stranded and in need, so I purposely didn't even look for a lower-powered Battery pack so that I don't have to refuse anyone. I even installed a socket in the cabin so that if I need to use it myself on my own car I can do so from the comfort of the driver's seat. That entailed making a new lead for the pack but I still carry the leads with the big croc clips on the end to use on other vehicles.

bfgqueen · October 3, 2020

Thanks Herbie, that post is so helpful! I don't really see myself as a mega car techie who is likely to have to help others out, but you never know! I have had a flattened Battery twice, mainly as a result of lockdown (having to shield and not go anywhere). But last night I called lexus breakdown at 6.30pm (still daylight) and the guy finally came at 9.30pm (dark, and I had to drive around for an hour to charge the battery). I just don't want to be in that vulnerable position again, and so I want some way to be self sufficient if my Battery dies in future. If this gadget does it, I am happy! But of course, if I come across someone in need it also means I can help them too. I have got standard jump leads, but the location of my car at home means they are useless without a second car to jump off. Hopefully, this gadget will solve my problems - if it helps someone else, that's a bonus!

Thank you for your helpful advice - when I retire, I intend to take a course in car mechanics, and with luck I will be a bit less clueless!

BoutTime · October 3, 2020

5 minutes ago, bfgqueen said:

Thanks Herbie, that post is so helpful! I don't really see myself as a mega car techie who is likely to have to help others out, but you never know! I have had a flattened battery twice, mainly as a result of lockdown (having to shield and not go anywhere). But last night I called lexus breakdown at 6.30pm (still daylight) and the guy finally came at 9.30pm (dark, and I had to drive around for an hour to charge the battery). I just don't want to be in that vulnerable position again, and so I want some way to be self sufficient if my battery dies in future. If this gadget does it, I am happy! But of course, if I come across someone in need it also means I can help them too. I have got standard jump leads, but the location of my car at home means they are useless without a second car to jump off. Hopefully, this gadget will solve my problems - if it helps someone else, that's a bonus!

Thank you for your helpful advice - when I retire, I intend to take a course in car mechanics, and with luck I will be a bit less clueless!

From what I understand there is no need to drive around. Engine charges the big traction Battery which in turn charges the 12v Battery. With the car in Ready state sitting idle, if the large traction Battery needs charge the engine will run.

Thackeray · October 3, 2020

23 minutes ago, BoutTime said:

From what I understand there is no need to drive around. Engine charges the big traction battery which in turn charges the 12v battery. With the car in Ready state sitting idle, if the large traction battery needs charge the engine will run.

Absolutely right. When the car is in the Ready state it feeds around 14-14.5 volts into the 12 volt circuit whether the car is moving or stationary. The advantage of it being stationary is that you use a lot less petrol to charge up the 12v Battery than if you were driving around. You also don't have to drive around in the dark unless you really want to!

Herbie · October 3, 2020

What Ricky says above is correct.

The advice given on Toyota's own website during the proper national lockdown was to run the car in READY mode for 60 minutes per week if you couldn't take it out anywhere.

Just put the car in 'Park' and into READY mode and sit there for an hour reading the paper or a book or whatever and the petrol engine will fire up as and when needed in order to give the 12V Battery a decent charge.

Obviously not ideal but it would save you driving around at night if you didn't want to.

Herbie · October 3, 2020

Haha, William beat me to it by two minutes :laughing:

NemesisUK · October 3, 2020

This document may be of interest?

Doc title mentions the hybrid Battery but it also covers the auxiliary 12v Battery and what to do during prolonged periods of storage/non-use

Maintainace of hybrid battery.pdf

royoftherovers · October 3, 2020

1 hour ago, NemesisUK said:

This document may be of interest?

Doc title mentions the hybrid battery but it also covers the auxiliary 12v battery and what to do during prolonged periods of storage/non-use

Maintainace of hybrid battery.pdf 408.77 kB · 3 downloads

That`s another great Post Peter.

I think that we should all try to standardise the terminology we are using for component parts as it would (I feel) make it easier to understand Member`s problems.

I will start by suggesting that the Battery that is in the boot and used to energise the car`s computing system and bring "Ready" to the Dashboard is called 12 VOLT AUXILIARY or STARTER Battery,

and the Box of tricks that looks after everything else is called THE HYBRID VEHICLE (HV) Battery.

All other suggestions welcome for the discussion....

NemesisUK · October 3, 2020

I think I would steer away from STARTER Battery, connotations of a conventional vehicle's Battery function? 12 VOLT AUXILIARY Battery defines it as a more specialised Battery?

THE HYBRID VEHICLE (HV) BATTERY. is it seems the 'official' term but perhaps not specific enough? Many readers may well miss the HV part. I prefer TRACTION Battery to describe the high voltage hybrid Battery as it's most notable function is to provides power to move the vehicle?

ColinBarber · October 3, 2020

8 hours ago, BoutTime said:

The one linked was for 8ltr petrol and diesel engines. So it might at least be cheaper to go for something suitable for a smaller engine instead.

Well I'd probably go for the smallest Noco power pack, but which is still overkill.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/NOCO-GB20-UltraSafe-Lithium-Gasoline/dp/B015TKPT1A/ref=sr_1_10?dchild=1&keywords=noco&qid=1601754179&sr=8-10

More expensive but from a company that has a reputation to uphold rather than an anonymous Chinese company which probably hasn't put any attempt into meeting any US or European safety regulations.

The one specifically linked to supposedly rated to 2000 Amps, I cannot see those thin wires carrying that current - looks like those very thin poor quality jump leads you can get (still for a hybrid that doesn't really matter). It also has a safety hammer built-in - just what you want to encourage, smashing a large volatile lithium ion Battery into things!!

bfgqueen · October 5, 2020

Thanks to everyone for all the helpful information. I will remember the point about running the car in ready mode - on both occasions where I have called out Lexus breakdown, I was told (not that politely) if I didn't drive the car round for an hour I might as well not have bothered to call them out. At 10pm in the middle of a storm that was not very helpful and quite stressful. Looks like I don't need to fall for it in future 🙂

JeffL · October 5, 2020

On 10/3/2020 at 4:53 PM, NemesisUK said:

This document may be of interest?

Doc title mentions the hybrid battery but it also covers the auxiliary 12v battery and what to do during prolonged periods of storage/non-use

Maintainace of hybrid battery.pdf 408.77 kB · 9 downloads

Very interesting document, but am I right in thinking that connecting up to a CTEK charger when the car is in storage/ off the road for a say a few months would trickle charge and maintain the auxiliary Battery. I ask for confirmation of this as that's what I've been doing recently with my non-hybrid GS300 but as I am considering an NX300h I'd like to know if the CTEK would do the same in storage for the NX as it does for my GS. Thanks.

ColinBarber · October 5, 2020

8 minutes ago, JeffL said:

Very interesting document, but am I right in thinking that connecting up to a CTEK charger when the car is in storage/ off the road for a say a few months would trickle charge and maintain the auxiliary battery. I ask for confirmation of this as that's what I've been doing recently with my non-hybrid GS300 but as I am considering an NX300h I'd like to know if the CTEK would do the same in storage for the NX as it does for my GS. Thanks.

Yes, no different.

If you are storing for 4+ months then I'd recommend switching the vehicle on into 'Ready' every 3 or 4 months for 30 mins so the hybrid Battery can get a charge from the engine if needed.