No surprise here, then ?

[royoftherovers]

Expensive Land Rovers and Teslas are the most UNRELIABLE cars, says watchdog

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-8768905/Expensive-Land-Rovers-Teslas-UNRELIABLE-cars-says-watchdog.html

Edited September 25, 2020 by royoftherovers
added source.

[Neo_gsf]

I can believe the results of the survey.

Heard and read untold number of stories about how badly put together Teslas are and how they effectively fall apart once the warranty expires.

A Land Rover main dealer has also had my friend's Range Rover Autobiography for 10 months now and still haven't been able to fix whatever the issue is causing the Engine Light to come on intermittently!  So far they want to charge £2000 for labour to return the car to him in exactly the same condition as he dropped it off, and still undriveable as he can't get it MOT'd because of the Engine Light.

[royoftherovers]

18 minutes ago, Neo_gsf said:

I can believe the results of the survey.

Heard and read untold number of stories about how badly put together Teslas are and how they effectively fall apart once the warranty expires.

A Land Rover main dealer has also had my friend's Range Rover Autobiography for 10 months now and still haven't been able to fix whatever the issue is causing the Engine Light to come on intermittently!  So far they want to charge £2000 for labour to return the car to him in exactly the same condition as he dropped it off, and still undriveable as he can't get it MOT'd because of the Engine Light.

Just unbelievable business lunacy.

I have been a Member on  both a Tesla and a Range Rover website for the past 6 months. I cannot believe the apparent stupidity of people who accept vehicles with deficiencies upon delivery and accept ongoing problems. Money and common sense are mutually exclusive to many people. 

Tesla and Range Rover.....ask not for whom the Bell Tolls !

[Martin J]

I've also been lurking on Tesla forums since I started pondering a M3 or MY to replace the NX. But the build quality lottery, and concern about long-term reliability, make it very unlikely that Elon will be getting my money. While I've got some admiration for the way that he changed the weather on EVs, I can't understand from a business viewpoint why he has such a relaxed attitude to quality control. At the moment Teslas sell without any marketing spend, but that won't last indefinitely as the EV competition gets stronger. And life is too short to spend it trying to get your car fixed. Perhaps the Berlin-built Teslas will be a revelation. Perhaps.

[royoftherovers]

4 minutes ago, Martin J said:

I've also been lurking on Tesla forums since I started pondering a M3 or MY to replace the NX. But the build quality lottery, and concern about long-term reliability, make it very unlikely that Elon will be getting my money. While I've got some admiration for the way that he changed the weather on EVs, I can't understand from a business viewpoint why he has such a relaxed attitude to quality control. At the moment Teslas sell without any marketing spend, but that won't last indefinitely as the EV competition gets stronger. And life is too short to spend it trying to get your car fixed. Perhaps the Berlin-built Teslas will be a revelation. Perhaps.

Martin ,In my view he will sell at the sahre price which satisfies him and the buyer will pick up the pieces !

[dutchie01]

Until now Teslas are selling because of fiscal stimulation of governments. In Norway and The Netherlands the model 3 was the best selling vehicle last year and guess why? Companycar drivers not having to pay tax or just a symbolic price. Cars were ordered from the website without testdrive. The Saloon car segment is truly dead as everybody wants a crossover or SUV. And the model 3 is the best seller... One only has to look to countries where Governments dont stimulate EV ownership like France, Spain to see that Tesla is nowhere to be seen. However, the EV market is heating up by the week with new models beeing pumped out to the market. The German 3 are coming on steam and that is a big threat to Tesla that until now beats them with their charging network and range. But for how long? I live in the Rotterdam area and to my surprise the council was replacing a lamppost in front of my house with a new one containig two EV charging points. a sticker was explaning all. The only thing lacking now is a Lexus EV ... ( or plug in but then the Battery needs to be strong enough maybe the RAV4 Prime drivetrain?)   

[ColinBarber]

44 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

The only thing lacking now is a Lexus EV ... ( or plug in but then the battery needs to be strong enough maybe the RAV4 Prime drivetrain?)   

https://www.lexus.co.uk/car-models/ux-ev/

 

RAV4 plug in is delayed in Europe and will be very difficult to get hold of in the US this year - the batteries are in short supply. This is where Tesla has the advantage - they have the manufacturing capability and long term contracts with the Battery manufacturers that no one else has.

I would expect the new NX, which will be Rav based, to have the plug-in option available. Seems the best compromise at the moment, the range just isn't there on pure EVs. Take a look at the range predictor in the middle of this page from Vauxhall:

https://www.vauxhall.co.uk/cars/new-corsa/electric.html

The Corsa has an official range of 209 miles - drive it at 75 mph when it is 0 deg C outside and that range is 103 miles!

[dutchie01]

I think the UX is way too expensive and the Battery is too small with 54 kwh. I dont expect it to sell well at all. 

[ColinBarber]

16 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

I think the UX is way too expensive and the battery is too small with 54 kwh. I dont expect it to sell well at all. 

All electric cars are too expensive. £30k for a Corsa, but Vauxhall won't make any money from it, and Lexus are unlikely to either from their UXe - and for this reason they aren't projecting to sell many, and will actively restrict the number they sell.

They need the low CO2 to help offset the other vehicles to bring their average down to within the 2021 European targets. The main reason for the UXe is China, and appealing to its younger demographic there to build the brand awareness.

[Spacewagon52]

Ganzoom, on this Lexus forum, made a very strong case for buying electric, but specifically Tesla. He was honest enough to list all the faults with his car after purchase. 

 

What drives us (pun not intended) on here to LOVE Lexus cars? Quality is one factor but I think the most important element is reliability. It is NOT just about having to spend money on repairs. It is owning a vehicle that rarely has to go back to the garage apart from servicing and wear and tear items. Sadly, I can remember the days of my Dad's Mk II Cortina, which he gave me. It felt like it was ALWAYS in the garage for something - mainly tracking if I remember correctly. I did not abuse the car as my father taught me to drive and being an ex bus driver, explained that giving a smooth ride to your passengers should be your most important consideration, The other nugget of wisdom he passed on to me was, "View driving and your license as a privilege, NOT a right!" I have tried to follow his words and have, at times, failed - particularly when I was younger. Having owned a Mk3 LS 400 as my first Lexus and before that, a Toyota Carina (1974 vintage) I appreciate the superb engineering and build quality. A friend told me, "All makes of cars are now reliable!" Not as far as I am concwerned. I have been tempted by the "German Devil" and bought into it, only to be very disappointed. To expect Lexus cars to be perfect is obviously ridiculous, all cars have issues at some point. However, I have just put my trust in a 12 year old hybrid. Would I buy a 12 year old BMW, Mercedes or Audi? No, let others take that risk thank you. I have been stung more than once!

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, Spacewagon52 said:

Ganzoom, on this Lexus forum, made a very strong case for buying electric, but specifically Tesla. He was honest enough to list all the faults with his car after purchase. 

 

What drives us (pun not intended) on here to LOVE Lexus cars? Quality is one factor but I think the most important element is reliability. It is NOT just about having to spend money on repairs. It is owning a vehicle that rarely has to go back to the garage apart from servicing and wear and tear items. Sadly, I can remember the days of my Dad's Mk II Cortina, which he gave me. It felt like it was ALWAYS in the garage for something - mainly tracking if I remember correctly. I did not abuse the car as my father taught me to drive and being an ex bus driver, explained that giving a smooth ride to your passengers should be your most important consideration, The other nugget of wisdom he passed on to me was, "View driving and your license as a privilege, NOT a right!" I have tried to follow his words and have, at times, failed - particularly when I was younger. Having owned a Mk3 LS 400 as my first Lexus and before that, a Toyota Carina (1974 vintage) I appreciate the superb engineering and build quality. A friend told me, "All makes of cars are now reliable!" Not as far as I am concwerned. I have been tempted by the "German Devil" and bought into it, only to be very disappointed. To expect Lexus cars to be perfect is obviously ridiculous, all cars have issues at some point. However, I have just put my trust in a 12 year old hybrid. Would I buy a 12 year old BMW, Mercedes or Audi? No, let others take that risk thank you. I have been stung more than once!

And so say many of us David. Very well said.

[Spacewagon52]

18 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

And so say many of us David. Very well said.

Thank you John! That is rare praise from you ................. unless I have read my owner's manual!

[EvilRacer329]

This is exactly why I didn't even consider BMW/Audi/VW/Mercedes. Plenty of people question why I worry about reliability when all new cars come with warranties, but that's not the point - I don't want to have to use the warranty in the first place! Plus I tend to keep my vehicles for far, far longer than the factory warranty lasts and I've seen the ridiculous bills that german cars seem to accumulate with alarming frequency once the original warranty is up. The priority is wowing the new buyer with fancy tech, not impressing the second or third owner with iron-clad reliability and build quality.

The other piece for me was the dealership experience. I'd visited a few different manufacturers when helping friends and families shop, and so far only Mazda, Toyota, and Lexus have impressed with their pre-sales experience. I've also had incredibly impressive after-sales experience with my parents' ancient 2002 Lexus IS300. It didn't matter that they didn't buy a new car there and were just picking up parts or getting an MOT on an older model, we were always treated like royalty.

So far, my own ownership experience hasn't been quite that rosy; i'm still chasing an elusive rattle, at one point my dealer forgot to plug in a cable behind the dash when they reassembled it, and I once got it back with a massive scratch that another customer had caused by hitting it while it was parked up. In all cases, even when it wasn't their fault, the service team have been incredibly apologetic and helpful, and genuinely seem to want to help me get everything resolved.

Nick