Prospective RX Purchase

[Spacewagon52]

That is where the similarities end. The 400h is a totally different beast to the 300. My test drive was the first time I had ever driven a hybrid. For those of you who have never driven a hybrid, at first, it is a surreal experience. Comparisons with driving a 300 end here, as it is a totally different driving experience. Better? Well, that is an individual question you must ask yourself. The instrument and switch layouts are very different to my RX 300, as my 300 does not have the facelift screen and reversing camera.

 

 

[Spacewagon52]

 

I have already mentioned above, in a previous post, the small flaws I found when viewing the car.

Pictures below!

And as my mantra, I expected to find a few more!

 

1. On driver's door all windows are auto but the driver's window is only manual!

1. 1. 2. Intermittent wiper does not work!

      3. Possible rear brake calliper seized/sticking

          

Now before John (RoyoftheRovers) gets on his keyboard, I have started to read the owner's manual!

 

 

 

 

[Spacewagon52]

1) I tried the MAGIC WINDOW TRICK – YES! IT WORKED! All auto now! This forum is amazing!

 

2) Intermittent wiper …............. to my embarrassment I had it on auto …..... works only when there is enough rain to activate the rain sensor! My RX 300 does not have this feature. What a plonker! But it NOW works on manual as well! RESULT!

 

My remote on the 300 does not work so I use the key …. habit …. 400h alarm went off!

[Spacewagon52]

Starting the car. Turn on the ignition so dash lights up, then turn again. NOTHING! I thought it was broken ….... silence but on the dash it said said “Ready” You can't do anything unless the gear lever is in P. Gear selector into D – nothing, no noise, parking brake off and she glides away in silence until you press the accelerator and the engine seamlessly starts and you detect a very quiet engine noise!

 

I appreciate for you lads who have had a hybrid, this is BORING! But for the uninitiated (me) it is a revelation!

 

 

Photo below STATIONARY - no noise - silence ...... is it broken? It says Ready! Read for waht?

 

 

 

[Spacewagon52]

It is surreal when you first experience this, compared to driving the 300. After purchase I filled it up and drove home between 60 to 70 mph. Over 210 miles (on Google maps not the trip) it used 27 litres of petrol. Worked out at 36 mpg! Compared to 25 mpg in the 300.

The acceleration is like hitting warp speed if you put your foot down.

 

RX 300 0-60 9 seconds

 

RX400h 0-60 7.6 seconds

 

The torque from the electric motors is immediate.

 

 

[Spacewagon52]

The CVT gearbox has been criticised by some, as the revs do go high when accelerating fast, but the sound is not hard on my ears. You do hear odd noises from the engine and electric motors but that is normal – nothing wrong here! Braking is odd, as you brake gently at a junction you can hear the whine of the dynamo (?) regenerating energy into the Battery. When you lift off the accelerator the engine stops and the hybrid Battery is charging as the car slows.

[Spacewagon52]

Yellow is power from the electric motor to the wheels and Battery

 

Orange is ICE power to wheels and electric motor.

 

Blue is regenerative charging from the dynamos (?) to the hybrid battery as you coast with no throttle.

[Spacewagon52]

What I can't get over is how seamlessly this all happens. Unless you are listening carefully, you would not have a clue which part is working. The energy monitor can be addictive and is a safety hazard! Don't look while driving! Get the wife to do constant read outs … he he! It is driving her crazy! I am still ploughing through the manual and do expect to find new things! The reversing camera and reversing sensors are wonderful. Not worked out how to engage the front sensors yet.

Get up to speed and then take your foot off the throttle - car begins to charge Battery. Press VERY gently and Electric only will be engaged

 

Brake gently and the electric motors, via dynamos (?) put energy back into the hybrid Battery to be used again!

[Spacewagon52]

3. Looking the car over again, I think that one of the rear brake calipers is stuck (common fault) as the brake disc is quite rusty, where the opposite back wheel disc is shiny. Will have that checked.

    

   Economy in mpg is far better than my 300 by some margin. Locally I get 22 mpg from the 300, even if I drive like Miss Daisy. The 400 is doing over 31 mpg, so I am very pleased.

 

 

 

[Spacewagon52]

The $1,000 question! Which car do I prefer to drive? Well at present ….... to be honest …...... the RX 300! BUT it is early days with the 400h and the gain in economy is very welcome psychologically. The technology is amazing and I am very pleased with the added economy. I can stomach 30 mpg – but 22 mpg – time will tell!

 

 

[JamesIS220]

I have an Auris Hybrid  and I too find the energy monitor and keeping the revs in the eco range very addictive!

I like the RX 400H.

James.

[royoftherovers]

30 minutes ago, Spacewagon52 said:

The $1,000 question! Which car do I prefer to drive? Well at present ….... to be honest …...... the RX 300! BUT it is early days with the 400h and the gain in economy is very welcome psychologically. The technology is amazing and I am very pleased with the added economy. I can stomach 30 mpg – but 22 mpg – time will tell!

 

 

I`m really pleased to read all of this Sunshine !

Welcome to the Hybrid World. Read and re-read your Handbook, or I will be back on my keyboard.

The word you are looking for David as regards moving forward is......linear ! Super,duper smooooooth !

Seriously, it took me 12 months to come to terms with the Hybrid experience and whilst I want to tell the whole World about it.....I do not want everybody to find out about it.

Give us more reports in due course please.

[ColinBarber]

52 minutes ago, Spacewagon52 said:

The CVT gearbox has been criticised by some, as the revs do go high when accelerating fast, but the sound is not hard on my ears.

The 400h engine is relatively quite and the noise insulation does a good job. The older Prius models and the other 4 cylinder models are noisier which is where most of the complaints come from.

[Spacewagon52]

6 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

The 400h engine is relatively quite and the noise insulation does a good job. The older Prius models and the other 4 cylinder models are noisier which is where most of the complaints come from.

To me it sounds like a lion growling - I like it! The way the electric motors and Battery work with the ICE automatically is amazing. You have to listen hard to work out when the engine kicks in. Kicks in is the wrong word as you can't feel anything.

[Spottedlaurel]

Pleased to see you have one on your driveway now. Alongside an LS too? Similar combination to me (K-reg Mk1 in my case).

The seamless and mostly inaudible way it switches between petrol and Battery power is remarkable, it definitely adds to the driving experience. With the stereo on there's no way of knowing a lot of the time.

In today's busy driving conditions there's still pleasure to be had on the must mundane journey in getting a big, heavy luxury SUV to give decent economy. In warm weather on some gentle, cross-country trips of decent length my 450 was getting over 40mpg recently, although now we're back to more traditional autumn weather I'm down to low-mid 30s on shorter runs.

By way of contrast my LS does around 22, but I can't resist letting the magical V8 do it's thing in that one.......

After odd use of the Energy screen I've settled on Consumption. That's much easier to take in at a glance, and it's easy to see the instant readout on the right go up to 60mpg with just a gentle lift of the throttle, often with no perceptible loss of speed.

I also reset my trip each fill-up, and like to see the total mileage and distance to refuel figure gradually increase.

[Spacewagon52]

Before I get chastised by Royoftherovers, I HAVE read this part of the manual!

Question: The gear selector has "B" for engine braking - when you are descending a steep hill. When "B" is engaged, does it charge the hybrid Battery more than just gentle braking or "coasting" with no throttle?

The 450h does not have "B" - how does that perform engine braking?

[Spacewagon52]

The best hybrid driving technique for economy seems be to get up to speed, come off the throttle and then very gently, just reengage the throttle. It will run on electric only. Of course it depends on the road conditions, if you are travelling uphill the ICE will kick in quicker.

 

I enjoyed watching this review below. Not everything he says I agree with and I am not sure about some of his assertions. But I thought it was a good review.

 

He has done one on the 450h but I have not seen that one yet.

 

 

[royoftherovers]

David asks "The 450h does not have "B" - how does that perform engine braking?"

My Handbook for the 450h explains!

There really is no substitute for (1) Reading one`s Handbook, (2) Complying with the Highway Code and (3) asking this Forum for advice --in that order !

The spokesperson for the Prosecution now rests !

 

•  

[BartLexusFan]

High Peak Autos YouTube channel is decent, but he always disses Lexus/Japanese cars. He is a dealer that owned Q7 and now has Range Rover, so can see where he is coming from. But I like his videos, as long as he is not talking about Japanese cars. Glad You’re happy, basically reading your experiences with 400h reflect mine when I got 3GS450h, but the acceleration was even harder. Passengers would say that they felt their rib was moving closer towards seats and like a plane taking off. In fact, when I had Driveme experience day in Aston Martin V8 Vantage, I wasn’t thrilled with acceleration, as I believe it was like 4.8/4.9s to 60 vs 5.2/5.3 on GS450h, and obviously there was no “instant torque” from Electric motor. Miss that car, sometimes I think about buying GS, and then just going with the roof box for our camping trips... I’m probably one in a million but I prefer CVT over standard auto, purely because of linear acceleration 

[Spacewagon52]

John, I am afraid you have now lost me!

1) I do not have a 450h owners manual

2) Not sure the Highway Code will give me the answer

3) So I asked on this forum

I still don’t have the answer but I live in hope!

[ColinBarber]

4 hours ago, Spacewagon52 said:

The 450h does not have "B" - how does that perform engine braking?

The RX450h and other newer hybrid designs (e.g. IS300h) have a simulated gearbox when put into manual mode - this is really there to help people who are used to conventional vehicles feel more at home and can be useful if you know you are going to overtake and want the revs up so the acceleration will occur without delay, but you can also drop down a 'gear' or two when going downhill to give you that simulated engine braking.

[Spacewagon52]

11 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

The RX450h and other newer hybrid designs (e.g. IS300h) have a simulated gearbox when put into manual mode - this is really there to help people who are used to conventional vehicles feel more at home and can be useful if you know you are going to overtake and want the revs up so the acceleration will occur without delay, but you can also drop down a 'gear' or two when going downhill to give you that simulated engine braking.

Thank you Colin!

I should be more observant as I now see the gearbox on an advert in AutoTrader. The gear.lever is just like my RX 300, where you can select semi-manual. Up and. Down gears.

Does selecting “B” on the 400h help recharge the batteries more or does it make no difference?

[ColinBarber]

27 minutes ago, Spacewagon52 said:

Does selecting “B” on the 400h help recharge the batteries more or does it make no difference?

Two parts to this. Technically yes, it will provide some regenerative braking to provide a braking effect which charges the traction Battery.

But you don't want to do this because in B mode it can also engage the petrol engine and turns it over without fuel/ignition as additional load so you are wasting energy - using B mode is less fuel efficient than just in normal mode.

You also don't really want to be concerned about the charge level - just let the vehicle worry about that. It will try and maintain it around half charge, so it has the ability to store any energy you save through braking and have enough to provide extra power should you call for it. If it gets too low it will charge it via diverting some of the engine power to the Battery, or even starting up the engine if it wasn't running.

 

If you want to be most efficient with recovering energy then you should apply the brakes gently so only regenerative braking is used. If you come off the accelerator when moving you will notice the power meter go slightly negative - this is the hybrid system simulating the braking effect of a standard automatic transmission vehicle by applying a small amount of regenerative braking. If you lightly press the brake pedal then the needle will move further into the negative. If you apply too much then the needle with max out at the bottom of the gauge, at which point additional braking effect is being provided by the mechanical brakes.

You can use this technique to maintain speed down a slope unless it is too steep for just regenerative braking to stop acceleration, or unless the slope is slow long that you completely charge the traction Battery at which point the regenerative braking will stop. In these two scenarios you can use B mode to give you additional braking.

[royoftherovers]

33 minutes ago, Spacewagon52 said:

John, I am afraid you have now lost me!

1) I do not have a 450h owners manual

2) Not sure the Highway Code will give me the answer

3) So I asked on this forum

I still don’t have the answer but I live in hope!

Sorry David, I should have had my Weetabix before logging on!

I misread your input and thought you had a 450h.Colin has answered your point though. He is pivotal as far as this Forum is concerned.

I try hard to instill a discipline whereby (particularly new) Members come on and ask questions without making any effort to do any research themselves. Most people take it in good heart, but occasionally some take umbrage. I categorise them in my own mind as former Audi,BMW or Merc drivers who have Company Cars and now want to drive Lexus F Sport models as it lowers their personal taxation levels. They complain that Lexus don`t have this, or can`t do that. They don`t signal their intentions, don`t observe Mirror-Signal-Manoeuvre practice and are thoroughly irresponsible drivers. 

Just my way of dealing, mentally with such requests David and I`m sorry if I caused offence to you and possibly others. Most people do accept that say, 80% of them do have the answers right in front of their eyes. Anybody who has a difficulty and asks for help always receives it.

Continue to enjoy your numerous machines David and hopefully we can all enjoy some light hearted banter on the way.

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, ColinBarber said:

If you lightly press the brake pedal then the needle will move further into the negative. If you apply too much then the needle with max out at the bottom of the gauge, at which point additional braking effect is being provided by the mechanical brakes.

I agree with everything you said above Colin except for this last little bit.

That may be the case on a long downhill stretch when the traction Battery is fully charged and can accept no more, although I'm not even sure about that - if the traction Battery is full and the excess supply has to be dumped, wouldn't the charge meter needle rise to the top of its scale, indicating no charge taking place?

However, that's a different thing so I'll leave that there.

Even just normal driving around town, approaching traffic lights or junctions will see the power meter needle drop right down indicating maximum charging but the mechanical brakes don't come on at that point. As the car slows down the needle will rise because MG1 is reducing speed, and consequently electrical output, all the time but it's only when the road speed gets down to somewhere between 7 and 3mph (can't remember exactly) that the change from regen to mechanical braking takes effect.